Moving Plumbing Point for Washing Machine - Detail Understanding Sought

[AsleepInYorkshire]

I'm "pottering" in the utility room . I've attached a photograph of two copper pipes. One hot, and one a cold supply. They project 100mm into the room. I want to put our washing machine in front of where they are, which means moving or adjusting them. I'm not sure which. My guess is reduce the hot and move the cold?

The washing machine is in the kitchen and pulling it out to measure what tolerances I have, if any, to leave the pipes in situ but reduce them is difficult and I wanted to avoid it. I'm guessing that with most standard washing machines the feed pipe needs to be at one side and not behind the machine? We only need cold water - so I plan to reduce the hot water and leave it flush with or just protruding from the wall.

Apart from understanding where the cold-water feed pipe needs to be located I wanted to understand if I can use plastic pipework for this job? Do they make valves in plastic for the water to be turned off before it reaches the machine?

I'm not a plumber but am "guessing" if plastic is viable the compression fittings won't be had to fit?

Thank you

AiY(D)

[bungeejumper]

Agreed, you don't need the hot water supply at all. The only issue I can see with chopping back the hot pipe tightly to the wall is that you'll need to get it watertight the first time. (And I'd use a compression stop end rather than a soldered one, because the wall would draw soldering heat away from the hot metal.) Would it be possible to take out a little of the surrounding plaster, so as to give yourself room to manoeuvre and perhaps get the stop end a little closer in?

Plastic pipe? I still don't trust it, personally. Not behind a washing machine, where everything's going to vibrate. What a sad Luddite I am. And another thing. I'd want to put in an isolation valve on that cold pipe, and it's easier/more reassuring on copper. (Very happy to be corrected on that point.)

BJ

[AsleepInYorkshire]

Agreed, you don't need the hot water supply at all. The only issue I can see with chopping back the hot pipe tightly to the wall is that you'll need to get it watertight the first time. (And I'd use a compression stop end rather than a soldered one, because the wall would draw soldering heat away from the hot metal.) Would it be possible to take out a little of the surrounding plaster, so as to give yourself room to manoeuvre and perhaps get the stop end a little closer in?

Yes. I'd already decided to remove a small amount of plaster and afterwards drop some expanding foam around it all just to keep draughts down. You can see in the photograph the plaster between the pipes is all cracked so that will fall out when I start work.

Plastic pipe? I still don't trust it, personally. Not behind a washing machine, where everything's going to vibrate. What a sad Luddite I am. And another thing. I'd want to put in an isolation valve on that cold pipe, and it's easier/more reassuring on copper. (Very happy to be corrected on that point.)
BJ

I have a plastic pipe (alkathene) that brings the mains pressured cold water into the house. Never had any issues with it. I was thinking of running the plastic pipework in the wall, not surface mounted. I think yes that's a concern I have, are the plastic valves reliable?

AiY(D)
Edit: Found this about joining copper to plastic

[9873210]

Sometime after you cut back the hot water pipe somebody will want it. This may occur in as few as a few minutes after you cut it, or much later when you are in your grave a feel a sharp stabbing pain as somebody curses you for making their job much harder.

[bungeejumper]

Sometime after you cut back the hot water pipe somebody will want it. This may occur in as few as a few minutes after you cut it, or much later when you are in your grave a feel a sharp stabbing pain as somebody curses you for making their job much harder.

Indeed. You can never have too many pipes, cables or assorted data stuff embedded in your walls for an errant cold chisel or an unsuspecting electric drill to find in the future. And who knows, perhaps the next generation of cookers or air conditioners will run off the hot water supply? Why, I'll bet that, at this very moment, somebody somewhere is working on a central heating boiler that works off an immersion heater.

When we were restoring Bungee Towers 30 years ago, and while all the floorboards were up, I took the opportunity to festoon the entire premises with telephone extension sockets, TV aerial leads and other essential gubbins in readiness for the emerging requirements of the future. All of it became instantly redundant in the age of cordless and wifi. To this day, my eyes water whenever I consider the colossal scrap value of all that cabling that I so providently installed in every available cavity......

In fact, the only thing I really got right was to install twice as much radiator capacity as I thought we might need. Bungee Towers is heat-pump ready! And has been for the last thirty years!

BJ

[Crazbe7]

Typically you'll need 6-10cm behind the washing machine to allow the pipe work to be fitted and connected - inlet/drain. My kitchen is being refurbished and I have a plumber in the house looking at my new layout. Current pipework/drainage is a mess.

My washing machine cold inlet was at the back of the washing machine.

Recommendation is to check your existing washing machine or look at the manual if you still have it! - A tip to move is to spray furniture polish or widow cleaner on the floor to help slide the washing machine out.

He doesn't like plastic fittings but he's 'old school'

Good luck!!

Crazbe7

[Mike4]

rWhy, I'll bet that, at this very moment, somebody somewhere is working on a central heating boiler that works off an immersion heater.

Already done, 30 years ago!

https://www.baxi.co.uk/new-build/produc ... ers/amptec

[Mike4]

I'm "pottering" in the utility room . I've attached a photograph of two copper pipes. One hot, and one a cold supply. They project 100mm into the room. I want to put our washing machine in front of where they are, which means moving or adjusting them. I'm not sure which. My guess is reduce the hot and move the cold?

The washing machine is in the kitchen and pulling it out to measure what tolerances I have, if any, to leave the pipes in situ but reduce them is difficult and I wanted to avoid it. I'm guessing that with most standard washing machines the feed pipe needs to be at one side and not behind the machine? We only need cold water - so I plan to reduce the hot water and leave it flush with or just protruding from the wall.

Apart from understanding where the cold-water feed pipe needs to be located I wanted to understand if I can use plastic pipework for this job? Do they make valves in plastic for the water to be turned off before it reaches the machine?

I'm not a plumber but am "guessing" if plastic is viable the compression fittings won't be had to fit?

Thank you

AiY(D)

I don't think you can reduce the projection by much as there are bends in those copper pipes as they emerge from the wall. You cannot reliably attach pipe fittings (elbows or caps) to the bent pipes, only to the straight sections. And you'll need about 30mm of straight pipe to do it, so by the time you've put an elbow on that cold pipe it will still project 3" from the wall.

So, you're gonna have to dig quite a big hole in that plasterboard in order to get to the other side of those pulled 90 degree bends and put the new pipe connector behind the wall surface. On the up side, plastic pipe nowadays is fine, and the fittings are directly compatible with copper tube.

[jaizan]

If the depth is sufficient, there's no real reason why the plumbing cannot be behind the washing machine.
Although access to cut off valves would be more difficult.

I would measure, then decide,

I also wouldn't touch plastic or push fit for this application. My preferences would be soldered joints, followed by compression fit. Compression fit is common on washing machine valves. All easy.

You can reduce the length slightly, but make sure the joint is entirely on straight undeformed pipe, not the bend.

If that's not enough, cut a hole in the wall.

[Mike4]

If the depth is sufficient, there's no real reason why the plumbing cannot be behind the washing machine.
Although access to cut off valves would be more difficult.

You say there is no real reason the plumbing cannot be behind the washing machine but then go on to immediately give one!

Putting the isolation valves behind the washing machine is nutso! One needs the isolator valves to be in an accessible position in case of flooding caused by a split flexi washing machine hose or the cheap nylon valve inside the washing machine failing.

I dunno about nowadays but washing machine manuals used to advise keeping the isolators OFF when not using the machine.

[bungeejumper]

I dunno about nowadays but washing machine manuals used to advise keeping the isolators OFF when not using the machine.

Ah yes, but how do I explain to my better half that she's got to scrabble around on the floor with a torch and a screwdriver every time it's her turn to do the laundry?

Our dishwasher also came with instructions to shut off the electric water valve between uses. We ignored it 25 years ago, and we ignore it still.

BJ

[Mike4]

I dunno about nowadays but washing machine manuals used to advise keeping the isolators OFF when not using the machine.

Ah yes, but how do I explain to my better half that she's got to scrabble around on the floor with a torch and a screwdriver every time it's her turn to do the laundry?

Our dishwasher also came with instructions to shut off the electric water valve between uses. We ignored it 25 years ago, and we ignore it still.

BJ

Well firstly, if you need a screwdriver to operate the valve its the wrong sort of valve. Secondly, the day your 25 year old electric valve fails you'll be scrabbling around under there in a flash, delighted that you know there is an isolator there to turn off at all!

When I used to fit kitchens I always put the washing machine valves and waste connection in an adjacent cupboard not behind the machine, and usually I would bring the isolators forward to the front of the cupboard so they were still accessible once the cupboard was rammed full of saucepans, carrier bags or whatever.

[modellingman]

I'm "pottering" in the utility room . I've attached a photograph of two copper pipes. One hot, and one a cold supply. They project 100mm into the room. I want to put our washing machine in front of where they are, which means moving or adjusting them. I'm not sure which. My guess is reduce the hot and move the cold?

All washing machines these days are cold fill only. Your existing machine would have to be from some time last century for it to have hot and cold fill connections. So, the hot would remain capped and the cold would be put into service.

The washing machine is in the kitchen and pulling it out to measure what tolerances I have, if any, to leave the pipes in situ but reduce them is difficult and I wanted to avoid it. I'm guessing that with most standard washing machines the feed pipe needs to be at one side and not behind the machine? We only need cold water - so I plan to reduce the hot water and leave it flush with or just protruding from the wall.

I'm assuming that this means you are planning on relocating the WM from the kitchen to the utility room and that the difficulty is moving the WM in and out of its current slot so that you get a better idea of how its connections are arranged.

The typical arrangement is that the cold supply inlet is on the back of the machine and fairly close to its top. This is generally fed from a flexible hose (other suppliers are available), which will have a 90 degree connection that is normally used at the machine end. Hoses come in various lengths and are used so that the machine can be pulled out (for fault finding etc) without first disconnecting the water supply. It also means that the supply does not need to be fitted immediately behind or next to the machine. The other end of the hose is typically connected to the fixed pipework using a washing machine valve. These come as straight, elbow and tee fittings with and without check (or non-return) valves built in and provide a means of isolating the supply to the machine.

Apart from understanding where the cold-water feed pipe needs to be located I wanted to understand if I can use plastic pipework for this job? Do they make valves in plastic for the water to be turned off before it reaches the machine?

I'm not a plumber but am "guessing" if plastic is viable the compression fittings won't be had to fit?

The video you link to in one of your posts deals with interchangeability of plastic and copper pipe and associated fittings. Plastic is easier to work with but plastic pipe fittings are a bit bulkier. Being of the old but not very old school I'd probably stick with copper pipe and compression and pre-soldered fittings. If you are surface mounting pipe on a wall, use plenty of clips to keep it firmly in place.

The only issue I can see with chopping back the hot pipe tightly to the wall is that you'll need to get it watertight the first time. (And I'd use a compression stop end rather than a soldered one, because the wall would draw soldering heat away from the hot metal.) Would it be possible to take out a little of the surrounding plaster, so as to give yourself room to manoeuvre and perhaps get the stop end a little closer in?

I'd already decided to remove a small amount of plaster and afterwards drop some expanding foam around it all just to keep draughts down. You can see in the photograph the plaster between the pipes is all cracked so that will fall out when I start work.

It is not entirely clear from your picture (to me at least) what type of wall the pipes are emerging from. I suspect it might be a plasterboard stud wall. If that is the case, I'd probably approach cut out a reasonable sized hole in the plasterboard with a jabsaw to get access to both pipes in the wall. The hot supply can be capped with a stop end and left in the wall, whilst the cold can be routed to wherever you think is suitable. If the wall is of a different construction, it will be a little more difficult.

A couple of other thoughts spring to mind.

Whilst WMs generally come in a standard width, there's no standard depth. Some fit easily under a standard 600mm worktop with plenty of room at the back for pipework, etc, some don't. DAMHIK.

If you haven't already done so, you will also need to plan the waste outlet and the electricity supply to the machine.

Good luck

modellingman

[9873210]

Sometime after you cut back the hot water pipe somebody will want it. This may occur in as few as a few minutes after you cut it, or much later when you are in your grave a feel a sharp stabbing pain as somebody curses you for making their job much harder.

Indeed. You can never have too many pipes, cables or assorted data stuff embedded in your walls for an errant cold chisel or an unsuspecting electric drill to find in the future. And who knows, perhaps the next generation of cookers or air conditioners will run off the hot water supply? Why, I'll bet that, at this very moment, somebody somewhere is working on a central heating boiler that works off an immersion heater.

When we were restoring Bungee Towers 30 years ago, and while all the floorboards were up, I took the opportunity to festoon the entire premises with telephone extension sockets, TV aerial leads and other essential gubbins in readiness for the emerging requirements of the future. All of it became instantly redundant in the age of cordless and wifi. To this day, my eyes water whenever I consider the colossal scrap value of all that cabling that I so providently installed in every available cavity......

In fact, the only thing I really got right was to install twice as much radiator capacity as I thought we might need. Bungee Towers is heat-pump ready! And has been for the last thirty years!

BJ

There was no talk of removing pipe from the wall, just cutting it off. It's not sure if the cap would be hidden, but hiding a capped pipe behind plaster or caulk is a no-no.

As for future use, the most likely use in a utility room is a sink. The second most likely use is a washing machine that uses the domestic hot water supply. A solar or heat-pump hot water system is more efficient than resistance heating.