Removing fireplaces?

[zico]

I've inherited my father's house and it has 3 fireplaces, all of which look messy, and one has a very old-fashioned (but effective) 4-bar gas fire (that lights up with a small gas explosion). Rather than replace the fireplaces, I thought it might be a good idea to modernise the house a little by simply taking all of them out, and it would also be a lot cheaper than renovating and providing 3 gas fires.

a) Is this a good idea? and b) how should I go about it?

I'm thinking I might need to get a gas fitter to seal off the gas pipes, then a builder (??) to remove the fireplaces, then a plasterer to create a smooth wall, then it's painting and decorating.
However, I've never done anything like this, so would appreciate any helpful comments and suggestions.

[staffordian]

Your plan sounds reasonable to me ( just a tinkering DIYer) but the point I wanted to make was to ensure if a flue is closed off, ensure some sort of ventilation is left to make sure the chimney doesn't get damp.

[GrahamPlatt]

https://www.channel4.com/4viewers/grand-designs

[88V8]

I've inherited my father's house and it has 3 fireplaces, all of which look messy, and one has a very old-fashioned (but effective) 4-bar gas fire (that lights up with a small gas explosion). Rather than replace the fireplaces, I thought it might be a good idea to modernise the house a little by simply taking all of them out, and it would also be a lot cheaper than renovating and providing 3 gas fires.

How old is the house?
Before you decide to erase period features, consider that some buyers would be very happy to have fireplaces.
Messy... well they are fireplaces, and they do not have to have gas fires. Coal, wood....

V8

[zico]

It's a fairly modern house (50's/60's) so no period Victorian fireplaces being ripped out.
Would I need a builder to remove the fireplaces, and ensure there was ventilation before plastering, or would a plasterer be able to do it all?

[Lootman]

If you take out the fireplaces then you might as well take out the chimneys, which take up a lot of space that you could otherwise use.

We took out the (brick) chimney on our three-storey house and built wardrobes and closets in the reclaimed space. I repurposed the bricks in the back garden.

[GoSeigen]

It's a fairly modern house (50's/60's) so no period Victorian fireplaces being ripped out.
Would I need a builder to remove the fireplaces, and ensure there was ventilation before plastering, or would a plasterer be able to do it all?

Our experience was that we needed a builder and a building engineer and a planning officer -- especially as our fireplace was situated on a party wall. When the fireplace is removed the stack above will need to be properly supported -- ours had an RSJ at loft level IIRC.

Obviously if removing the entire stack the roof will need making good. Oh and removal of the chimney above roof level may need planning permission. People up the road from us didn't get PP and had to reinstate the chimney which was costly -- they had to have a fibreglass copy custom made and fitted.

The engineer will need to be satisfied all is done properly so that the wall won't collapse, and the council bod will need to sign off on it.

GS

[Lootman]

It's a fairly modern house (50's/60's) so no period Victorian fireplaces being ripped out. Would I need a builder to remove the fireplaces, and ensure there was ventilation before plastering, or would a plasterer be able to do it all?

Our experience was that we needed a builder and a building engineer and a planning officer -- especially as our fireplace was situated on a party wall. When the fireplace is removed the stack above will need to be properly supported -- ours had an RSJ at loft level IIRC. Obviously if removing the entire stack the roof will need making good. The engineer will need to be satisfied all is done properly so that the wall won't collapse, and the council bod will need to sign off on it.

I am all for doing things like this safely but I would never involve the local council as they will make the job ten times more expensive and complex than is needed. Council guys are useless and incompetent.

Just hire a contractor who knows what he is doing. Or do it yourself as I did.

[Dicky99]

When permanently removing fireplaces and sealing up, best practice is to have both a vent grill at the base of flue, where the fireplace has been boarded up, and to insert a mushroom cap in the chimney pot. This ensures good top to bottom ventilation whilst the mushroom cap prevents rainwater from entering the flue from the top.

I'd suggest a good multitrade builder is more able to do some small scale plastering after removing and infilling the fireplaces than a plasterer would be to do the building work.

You'll need a Gas Safe registered engineer to permanently disconnect the gas fires. If you seek out the Gas Safe website it will have a post code search facility for Gas Safe registered operatives in your location.

[Dicky99]

Our experience was that we needed a builder and a building engineer and a planning officer -- especially as our fireplace was situated on a party wall. When the fireplace is removed the stack above will need to be properly supported -- ours had an RSJ at loft level IIRC. Obviously if removing the entire stack the roof will need making good. The engineer will need to be satisfied all is done properly so that the wall won't collapse, and the council bod will need to sign off on it.

I am all for doing things like this safely but I would never involve the local council as they will make the job ten times more expensive and complex than is needed. Council guys are useless and incompetent.

Just hire a contractor who knows what he is doing. Or do it yourself as I did.

Council guys are essential to prevent incompetent DIYers from carrying out dangerous structural works.
The OP wasn't entirely clear on whether their intention is to remove the chimney breasts as well as removing the fire places. If so a Building Regs application will be required so that an incompetent Council worker can ensure that the proposed means of structural support is adequately designed. Effectively that will mean steels under the chimney stack supported off load bearing walls. The days of supporting stacks at roof void level on gallows brackets are long gone.
Failure to do the work correctly or to obtain B regs approval is likely to be found by the Solicitors searches and the house survey on sale of the property.

[Lootman]

I am all for doing things like this safely but I would never involve the local council as they will make the job ten times more expensive and complex than is needed. Council guys are useless and incompetent.

Just hire a contractor who knows what he is doing. Or do it yourself as I did.

Council guys are essential to prevent incompetent DIYers from carrying out dangerous structural works.
The OP wasn't entirely clear on whether their intention is to remove the chimney breasts as well as removing the fire places. If so a Building Regs application will be required so that an incompetent Council worker can ensure that the proposed means of structural support is adequately designed. Effectively that will mean steels under the chimney stack supported off load bearing walls. The days of supporting stacks at roof void level on gallows brackets are long gone.
Failure to do the work correctly or to obtain B regs approval is likely to be found by the Solicitors searches and the house survey on sale of the property.

I can agree that removing the fireplaces and supporting areas can undermine the chimney structure above, But if the entire chimney structure is removed then you are left with a void that can be reclaimed for other purposes. I know this because I did it and there was no problem with a subsequent sale. If you take out fireplaces then take out the chimney.

The idea that local authority inspectors know what they are doing is frankly laughable.

[Dicky99]

Council guys are essential to prevent incompetent DIYers from carrying out dangerous structural works.
The OP wasn't entirely clear on whether their intention is to remove the chimney breasts as well as removing the fire places. If so a Building Regs application will be required so that an incompetent Council worker can ensure that the proposed means of structural support is adequately designed. Effectively that will mean steels under the chimney stack supported off load bearing walls. The days of supporting stacks at roof void level on gallows brackets are long gone.
Failure to do the work correctly or to obtain B regs approval is likely to be found by the Solicitors searches and the house survey on sale of the property.

I can agree that removing the fireplaces and supporting areas can undermine the chimney structure above, But if the entire chimney structure is removed then you are left with a void that can be reclaimed for other purposes. I know this because I did it and there was no problem with a subsequent sale. If you take out fireplaces then take out the chimney.

The idea that local authority inspectors know what they are doing is frankly laughable.

You can't take the entire stack down if it is shared with a neighbour. Nor if the building is listed or in a conservation area. The fact is that the Building Regulations have evolved to address, amongst other things, poor and dangerous building practices.
Lots of people do work without obtaining the correct approvals and get away with it. Eventually someone else down the line has to pay for the regularisation

[Lootman]

I can agree that removing the fireplaces and supporting areas can undermine the chimney structure above, But if the entire chimney structure is removed then you are left with a void that can be reclaimed for other purposes. I know this because I did it and there was no problem with a subsequent sale. If you take out fireplaces then take out the chimney.

The idea that local authority inspectors know what they are doing is frankly laughable.

You can't take the entire stack down if it is shared with a neighbour. Nor if the building is listed or in a conservation area. The fact is that the Building Regulations have evolved to address, amongst other things, poor and dangerous building practices.
Lots of people do work without obtaining the correct approvals and get away with it. Eventually someone else down the line has to pay for the regularisation

Sorry but I disagree. Building regs mostly exist to provide revenues to councils.

I did this 20 years ago with zero liability, Anyone who knows what they are doing works as a contractor and not as a bureaucrat.

[Dicky99]

I've inherited my father's house and it has 3 fireplaces, all of which look messy, and one has a very old-fashioned (but effective) 4-bar gas fire (that lights up with a small gas explosion). Rather than replace the fireplaces, I thought it might be a good idea to modernise the house a little by simply taking all of them out, and it would also be a lot cheaper than renovating and providing 3 gas fires.

a) Is this a good idea? and b) how should I go about it?

I'm thinking I might need to get a gas fitter to seal off the gas pipes, then a builder (??) to remove the fireplaces, then a plasterer to create a smooth wall, then it's painting and decorating.
However, I've never done anything like this, so would appreciate any helpful comments and suggestions.

If your intention is to remove the chimney breasts leaving the stack in place from the loft upwards. A good approach would be to pay a Structural Engineer a few hundred pounds to do a simple design drawing and calculation for the beams required to support the chimney stack and to include a specification on the drawing for the required remedial work. The calculation would be required to accompany a Building Regs application and you could also hand that drawing to a couple of builders for the purpose of providing a quote.
You could more than likely do the Building Regs under a "Building Notice" which is a light touch application which enables work to commence 48 hours after submission. It's just a form filling exercise so you could do that yourself or, if you don't want to get involved, ask the Engineer or your chosen builder to submit that for you.

[quelquod]

Sorry but I disagree. Building regs mostly exist to provide revenues to councils.

I suppose this mostly a tongue in cheek comment and in many ways you could apply it to planning laws, but building regs have mainly evolved on the back of poor and dangerous (and nowadays energy-related) practices.

[Lootman]

Sorry but I disagree. Building regs mostly exist to provide revenues to councils.

I suppose this mostly a tongue in cheek comment and in many ways you could apply it to planning laws, but building regs have mainly evolved on the back of poor and dangerous (and nowadays energy-related) practices.

Partly tongue in cheek but I once had to bring a building I owned up to current code and some of the stuff I had to do, especially for plumbing, struck me as completely trivial and unnecessary. And I think the permit fees came to around 2 grand.

Planning is another thing but having owned a listed building in a national park, all I can say is that I would not do that again. The best part was where the (NP) planning folks told me to do one thing and the (LA) building folks told me to do the opposite!

[Maroochydore]

b) how should I go about it?

Others are suggesting you are removing the chimney breast in it's entirity but that's not how I'm reading it. If you just want to remove the surround it's very easy. You may need to get a registered gas tradie in if the fires are in the way but all other issues aside, fire surrounds are normally just screwed to the wall by way of two lugs/ears which are situated a few inches below the top level each side (that's why they are also called ears if you imagine a face) but under the plaster. So you'd need to chip the plaster away to find the lugs.

then a builder (??) to remove the fireplaces,

As above, not necessary but if you want to remove the entire breast then yes, I'd recommend a builder. I've done it myself many years ago. First you need to have a gallows bracket drawn up on paper and I had to submit this to the council for approval. Once approved you need to have the gallows bracket made, including a metal sheet that sits on the bracket. Then the scary part of fitting it in the loft to support the remaining chimney stack then it's a case of knocking the bricks out.......get a builder in, less agro and they know the ropes!

[Lootman]

if you want to remove the entire breast then yes, I'd recommend a builder. I've done it myself many years ago. First you need to have a gallows bracket drawn up on paper and I had to submit this to the council for approval. Once approved you need to have the gallows bracket made, including a metal sheet that sits on the bracket. Then the scary part of fitting it in the loft to support the remaining chimney stack then it's a case of knocking the bricks out.......get a builder in, less agro and they know the ropes!

Or as I said upthread just remove the entire chimney stack. It is just bricks so anyone can do that with a decent lump hammer. Just wear a good mask as it kicks up a ton of dust in an enclosed space. I repurposed the bricks in my garden.

Oh, and start at the top and work down!

It is amazing how much space is liberated when you take out an entire chimney stack.

As for informing the council . . .

[88V8]

if you want to remove the entire breast then ....you need to have the gallows bracket made...

Or as I said upthread just remove the entire chimney stack. It is just bricks so anyone can do that with a decent lump hammer....Oh, and start at the top and work down!

I took out our side of a stack years ago, 1930s terrace, in the mid-70s that was, made a support from an old bed frame screwed to the wall in the attic. The worst part of taking it out was the soot, that gets everywhere, shoulda had it swept first

In an old-house forum I sometimes inhabit it's not unusual to come across stacks that are just supported on the corbelling, and seemingly have been for many years.

Yes, there are some wonderful botches out there.

V8

[zico]

To clarify, I'm not planning to remove anything but the actual fireplace and mantelpiece, simply to make it look neater. There's central heating in the rooms, so lack of a fire won't be a problem.