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Fed up with ever increasing logon procedures!

A friendly ear
Mike4
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Re: Fed up with ever increasing logon procedures!

#369238

Postby Mike4 » December 23rd, 2020, 5:18 pm

richfool wrote:Well I much prefer to keep such information to myself, thank you. It helps protect me from various companies having their records hacked, as I believed happened with Carphone Warehouse/ Curry's a couple of years back. If my CC info is not held by such businesses then it can't fall into the hands of hackers.

I can cope with keying the information in again, if, and when I order something online.


Swerving off at a tangent, buying stuff in the Screwfix shops is a bit of a chore fending off their demands to know your name, address and postcode and most recently, email address too. I've always asked if I can buy anonymously and they used to always say yes until last week.

They started off on their usual "what name is it?" track and I said "do I have to give you all my details, can I just buy it anonymously and the girl looked nervous and called a manager over, who basically said no I have to give them all my details to but their products.

I said that's a shame I'll have to stop buying stuff here then. She agreed with me and I left.

vrdiver
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Re: Fed up with ever increasing logon procedures!

#369277

Postby vrdiver » December 23rd, 2020, 6:28 pm

Mike4 wrote:Swerving off at a tangent, buying stuff in the Screwfix shops is a bit of a chore fending off their demands to know your name, address and postcode and most recently, email address too. I've always asked if I can buy anonymously and they used to always say yes until last week.

They started off on their usual "what name is it?" track and I said "do I have to give you all my details, can I just buy it anonymously and the girl looked nervous and called a manager over, who basically said no I have to give them all my details to but their products.

I said that's a shame I'll have to stop buying stuff here then. She agreed with me and I left.

Rather than inconvenience yourself, couldn't you just give them random made-up data? I appreciate that voting with your feet is a stronger gesture that might, just might, make its way back to management (especially if reported numerous times from different branches), but for the impact it will likely have, if it was me and I'd decided that a specific shop was where I wanted to buy something, then false data it is!

Incidentally, I use false data anyway for all those security questions like "first pet" etc. Easy to do with a password manager and they don't even have to make sense, so pretty secure from being guessed.

Lanark
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Re: Fed up with ever increasing logon procedures!

#369315

Postby Lanark » December 23rd, 2020, 7:37 pm

vrdiver wrote:
Mike4 wrote:Swerving off at a tangent, buying stuff in the Screwfix shops is a bit of a chore fending off their demands to know your name, address and postcode and most recently, email address too. I've always asked if I can buy anonymously and they used to always say yes until last week.

They started off on their usual "what name is it?" track and I said "do I have to give you all my details, can I just buy it anonymously and the girl looked nervous and called a manager over, who basically said no I have to give them all my details to but their products.

I said that's a shame I'll have to stop buying stuff here then. She agreed with me and I left.

Rather than inconvenience yourself, couldn't you just give them random made-up data? I appreciate that voting with your feet is a stronger gesture that might, just might, make its way back to management (especially if reported numerous times from different branches), but for the impact it will likely have, if it was me and I'd decided that a specific shop was where I wanted to buy something, then false data it is!

Incidentally, I use false data anyway for all those security questions like "first pet" etc. Easy to do with a password manager and they don't even have to make sense, so pretty secure from being guessed.


My approach: "Oh my email address, sure it's customer.services AT, <long pause while they type it in> screwfix DOT com"
If you keep a completely straight face they wont know if you are trolling them or a "secret shopper" sent from head office.

One shop I did that in immediately gave me a 10% staff discount.

ten0rman
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Re: Fed up with ever increasing logon procedures!

#370228

Postby ten0rman » December 27th, 2020, 10:07 pm

AF62,

I don't like your comments directed at me. It is obvious that you haven't read my opening post. But just for the record, I have used this system quite successfully right up to the point at which I discovered that I most likely entered an incorrect Memorable word. It was then that things started to go wrong. In respect of the mobile phone let me say that my mobile phone spends 99% of its life switched off. In fact, were it not for the fact that around 20 years ago I was doing a job where having a mobile phone made life easier, I probably wouldn't have had one now. The fact of the matter is that my average monthly mobile phone bill is around one or two pounds when taken over a 12 month period and averaged out.

I would also make the point, which appears to be being ignored by Patient Access is how do people go on who do not have a mobile phone? Are they to be considered 2nd class citizens because of it? Can they not use the landline? What is so important that it requires a mobile phone number or is it just data mining for data mining's sake. Especially as at one point I noticed that there was a note to say that you, ie the patient, agree to receive information from Patient Access, and although I didn't look partiularly hard, I did not notice an opt out box.

Final comment. It is looking more and more, especially since Patient Access support seem pretty useless, that I will indeed be reverting back to using a telephone (landline) for requesting repeat prescriptions in the future. I would also point out that telephone access is considerably simpler than using Patient Access, eg pick up phone, dial number, enter 6 for my preferred pharmacy, speak list of requirements, hangup, as against - switch on computer, load web browser, type web address, select appropriate item, dismiss large message re Covid 19, select main menu item, select sub item, select Patient Access, type in 11 digit UID, type in 13 character password, enter random 3 characters, select option for repeat prescription, start selecting items, enter name of preferred pharmacy, enter minimum of three characters in message to surgery box (even if no message to send still requires three characters), submit request, confirm listing, and then finally start shut down procedure. Just think about all that.

ten0rman

stevensfo
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Re: Fed up with ever increasing logon procedures!

#370723

Postby stevensfo » December 29th, 2020, 9:54 am

Mike4 wrote:
richfool wrote:Well I much prefer to keep such information to myself, thank you. It helps protect me from various companies having their records hacked, as I believed happened with Carphone Warehouse/ Curry's a couple of years back. If my CC info is not held by such businesses then it can't fall into the hands of hackers.

I can cope with keying the information in again, if, and when I order something online.


Swerving off at a tangent, buying stuff in the Screwfix shops is a bit of a chore fending off their demands to know your name, address and postcode and most recently, email address too. I've always asked if I can buy anonymously and they used to always say yes until last week.

They started off on their usual "what name is it?" track and I said "do I have to give you all my details, can I just buy it anonymously and the girl looked nervous and called a manager over, who basically said no I have to give them all my details to but their products.

I said that's a shame I'll have to stop buying stuff here then. She agreed with me and I left.


Wow! I've never heard of anything like this before, though I haven't used Screwfix for a few years now. Some supermarkets in Italy ask for my postcode, but that's simply to get an idea of where their customers are from. Obviously, if you use a debit card 'and' a loyalty card, a shop has all that information anyway, which is why I was always economical with the truth when I got them, and in any case, I always pay with cash wherever I can. Small changes to DOB, spelling of name, phone number etc and an email address that I check every six months. Since supermarkets usually give an opt-out option for receiving stuff by post, I usually make up the address.

You were right to walk out. But maybe let them know exactly why?

PS Is this only Screwfix or are other places trying it on as well?

Steve

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Re: Fed up with ever increasing logon procedures!

#371727

Postby daducky » December 31st, 2020, 4:31 pm

Interesting.
I've got an alias I use for everything apart from family, friends and work/ job app emails.
The rest get the alias including NHS app for repeat prescription orders which simpole via their app. Most orgs are not actually interested in YOUR email address as opposed AN email address I believe. Having 4 current email addresses for different purposes eg containing spam from shopping and marketing leaking orgs is quite useful.

Incidentally can anyone tell me where the change password button is? I clicked on my username to get to my profile, but there's no change password button there ?!

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Re: Fed up with ever increasing logon procedures!

#371729

Postby daducky » December 31st, 2020, 4:32 pm

I've just got nip to out to get a few Banks' bitters in to celebrate tomorrow. Pushing the boat out eh?

Maybe I'll have some when I get back :-)

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Re: Fed up with ever increasing logon procedures!

#371759

Postby vrdiver » December 31st, 2020, 6:17 pm

daducky wrote:Incidentally can anyone tell me where the change password button is? I clicked on my username to get to my profile, but there's no change password button there ?!

Click on Username | User Control Panel , then select the "Profile" tab. From there, choose "Edit account settings" and you can change your password.

Hope that helps

VRD

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Re: Fed up with ever increasing logon procedures!

#371771

Postby daducky » December 31st, 2020, 6:44 pm

Thankyou :-)

GrahamPlatt
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Re: Fed up with ever increasing logon procedures!

#371773

Postby GrahamPlatt » December 31st, 2020, 6:52 pm

A good resource for dealing with potential spam, but from parties you might welcome one or two initial emails from (e.g. to give you a voucher code or whatever) is http://www.spamgourmet.org.

AF62
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Re: Fed up with ever increasing logon procedures!

#375361

Postby AF62 » January 10th, 2021, 7:14 am

ten0rman wrote:AF62,

I don't like your comments directed at me. It is obvious that you haven't read my opening post.


Sorry you don’t like my comments.

I did read your first post and made a constructive suggestion.

You then replied, where it seemed that you wanted the system designed around you and your foibles, and to be honest, your inconsistent views.

On one hand you don’t give out your phone number for fear of spam callers getting hold of it, but on the other you think people are paranoid about worrying that others might find out their medical history and you want less security to meet your needs.

So sorry, but I still think you need to consider how you use the system; a system that does need to work for everyone but at the same time needs to keep everyone’s personal information safe.

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Re: Fed up with ever increasing logon procedures!

#377439

Postby Sunnypad » January 15th, 2021, 11:44 am

Interesting thread

Not good re Screwfix

Our Homebase has closed and Screwfix is the only option now.

This might make some of you shudder but I am actually trying to go low tech now.

I feel tech has hit the point where it causes more problems than it solves.

It can be worse. I took mum to the bank to pay her tax bill and the way their fraud questions were worded, I didn't even understand them. I told her she is sending a cheque in future.

I don't use loyalty cards and mostly shop in Aldi, I make a point of using cash. Mum has a Morrison's card but doesn't go online. 2 factor authentication for a loyalty card is mad!

I do use Patient Access, fingers crossed so far it's okay.

I cannot face tracking passwords in yet another computer based method so have to do it differently.

stevensfo
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Re: Fed up with ever increasing logon procedures!

#377458

Postby stevensfo » January 15th, 2021, 12:25 pm

Sunnypad wrote:Interesting thread

Not good re Screwfix

Our Homebase has closed and Screwfix is the only option now.

This might make some of you shudder but I am actually trying to go low tech now.

I feel tech has hit the point where it causes more problems than it solves.

It can be worse. I took mum to the bank to pay her tax bill and the way their fraud questions were worded, I didn't even understand them. I told her she is sending a cheque in future.

I don't use loyalty cards and mostly shop in Aldi, I make a point of using cash. Mum has a Morrison's card but doesn't go online. 2 factor authentication for a loyalty card is mad!

I do use Patient Access, fingers crossed so far it's okay.

I cannot face tracking passwords in yet another computer based method so have to do it differently.


I feel very much the same. Maybe a mixture of age, watching too many dystopian SciFi films and the Financial Crisis, but I prefer to use cash as much as possible and only rarely use Loyalty cards. Whenever I hear the word 'Privacy' mentioned, it reminds me of Orwell's Animal Farm and 1984. What privacy?

Perhaps there was a need for increased security, but I can't help wondering how we all survived back in those far off days when I was able to go into any bank with a grant cheque in my sticky hand and open a bank account with no problem whatsoever. One has the impression now that before all this increased security, everybody must have been busy laundering money and transferring funds to terrorist organisations. From what I remember from the news over many decades, most of those involved were actually the banks themselves.

Thankfully, my Patient Access seems to work very well. How our village surgery will cope with an extra 500 houses is another matter! :?

Steve

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Re: Fed up with ever increasing logon procedures!

#377472

Postby dealtn » January 15th, 2021, 1:09 pm

stevensfo wrote: From what I remember from the news over many decades, most of those involved were actually the banks themselves.



Possibly Bank Employees, rather than Banks. Tipping Off or Facilitating, more usually than Laundering itself.

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Re: Fed up with ever increasing logon procedures!

#377474

Postby Sunnypad » January 15th, 2021, 1:10 pm

Steve

I'm accustomed to increased security as it took a long interview to open my first bank account!

But, being honest here, i hope that doesn't annoy anyone, it seems that everything is just designed to serve big tech and enable job creation for them. I don't really believe the increased security spiel.

The only way to avoid it seems to be voting with feet where possible.

I'm mystified by those who invite Alexa into their home. I think it's great if you have a disabilty but for the non-disabled,
I am baffled by it.

I have just been in the local Tesco Express. Six people queuing to pay in cash. It made me wonder if people are becoming more conscious. I'm sure all of us could have paid with a card.

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Re: Fed up with ever increasing logon procedures!

#377496

Postby stevensfo » January 15th, 2021, 1:59 pm

dealtn wrote:
stevensfo wrote: From what I remember from the news over many decades, most of those involved were actually the banks themselves.



Possibly Bank Employees, rather than Banks. Tipping Off or Facilitating, more usually than Laundering itself.


So what you're saying is that banks need to have heightened security and supervision of their own staff. I agree. Ultimately, the buck stops with the Bank. Excusing it as 'just employees' is not an excuse. What I think most people are annoyed with is the way in which they seem to be pushing all this onto the customer, as if to say 'Look, we are doing something. Aren't we clever?'.

There's an interesting book by Oliver Bullough: Moneyland: Why Thieves And Crooks Now Rule The World And How To Take It Back

Despite the provocative title, it does shed some light on what is happening behind the scenes. Half of the Offshore places, I'd never heard of. Hope they take cash! ;)

Steve

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Re: Fed up with ever increasing logon procedures!

#377502

Postby stevensfo » January 15th, 2021, 2:18 pm

Sunnypad wrote:Steve

I'm accustomed to increased security as it took a long interview to open my first bank account!

But, being honest here, i hope that doesn't annoy anyone, it seems that everything is just designed to serve big tech and enable job creation for them. I don't really believe the increased security spiel.

The only way to avoid it seems to be voting with feet where possible.

I'm mystified by those who invite Alexa into their home. I think it's great if you have a disabilty but for the non-disabled,
I am baffled by it.

I have just been in the local Tesco Express. Six people queuing to pay in cash. It made me wonder if people are becoming more conscious. I'm sure all of us could have paid with a card.


Sorry, but you're not allowed to annoy anyone these days. You'll be labelled as an Annoyophile and probably arrested. ;)

I'm guessing you're a bit older than me (59) because my late father told me all about opening a bank account in the late 1950s and he even had to take his Dad with him. Luckily, he impressed the Bank Manager by asking him 'What can you offer me that the other banks can't' so got his account. Going to a private (Public) school may have helped. 8-)

Voting with your feet won't help, since all financial organisations will soon have the same systems in place.

I don't think it's necessarily to enable job creation. Rather, I think that it's a simple answer to the problems of overpopulation combined with terrible economics and the need to keep strict surveillance of the population and ensure a tighter control of every aspect of our lives while giving the impression that Privacy and Freedom are still important. In years to come, we will probably call it 'North Korea Light'?

Fortunately, nobody in our home has expressed the slightest desire for Alexa. I think that may be a mistake. Ten minutes of listening in will make the AI systems send us all vouchers for free valium! :lol:

Steve

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Re: Fed up with ever increasing logon procedures!

#377505

Postby Sunnypad » January 15th, 2021, 2:23 pm

Steve - no, i'm 44.

I agree it's to keep tabs on the population but there are no good reasons for doing it.

How would it help with overpopulation?

I do think it helps to vote with your feet in terms of shops, probably not banks.

If we can keep cash for even a year longer than they'd like, I'd consider it a win.

Why should I give a shop my email address to buy some light bulbs? Insanity.

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Re: Fed up with ever increasing logon procedures!

#377508

Postby didds » January 15th, 2021, 2:29 pm

I just presumed that with society becoming increasingly litigacious its just the inevitable next step of covering their bottoms. Not leaving anything open to be accused of not doing.

didds

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Re: Fed up with ever increasing logon procedures!

#377520

Postby stevensfo » January 15th, 2021, 3:01 pm

Sunnypad wrote:Steve - no, i'm 44.

I agree it's to keep tabs on the population but there are no good reasons for doing it.

How would it help with overpopulation?

I do think it helps to vote with your feet in terms of shops, probably not banks.

If we can keep cash for even a year longer than they'd like, I'd consider it a win.

Why should I give a shop my email address to buy some light bulbs? Insanity.


Wow, so you missed out on the great giveaway bank account orgy, late 70s to early 80s? ;)

Doesn't help with over population but they have to deal with it. So many people, so few staff? Hmm? So better software to deal with them. Circa 1984, our Barclays bank had 'Personal Bankers' for every customer and it was really nice to be greeted by a young smiling woman to ask if they could help in any way.

Try that today! :?

You'll be lucky if you get to speak to a human being. Luckily, Nationwide still employ humans.

So far, I haven't come across a shop that wants my email address, but I would just give them a false one. That is my 'Privacy Policy'. With those tiny clamshell simple mobile phones and sim cards so cheap, you just keep a few for authentification.

Steve


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