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Covid Christmas anxiety

A friendly ear
Clariman
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Covid Christmas anxiety

#364695

Postby Clariman » December 10th, 2020, 10:21 am

I've been fine during lockdown apart from the odd blip. I'm having another one now. Out for our usual walk around the village yesterday and come across the nice ladies who voluntarily look after the local flower beds etc. At least a dozen of them were huddled together outside in a tiny walled garden for what must have been an end of year social (fizzy wine was present). There was no social distancing. My wife knows some of them so we stopped by (at the edge, on the street) to chat for 5 to 10 minutes, but I felt really uncomfortable. I wasn't worried that I would catch anything. I stood well back, but it troubles me that otherwise sensible adults thought this was OK and I didn't want to be associated with it in any way. Am I over-reacting? Obviously being outdoors is much safer but people were facing each other a foot apart in the midst of others. It is precisely this sort of brushing over the rules that everyone seems to be doing now.

Our son and daughter-in-law are essential workers so a couple of months ago we returned to doing our 1 day a week of informal childcare in their house, which we are allowed to do. We don't stay overnight as we used to do and we don't hang around at the end of the day. DIL works in their home office and takes her lunch up there, so we minimise contact, but are probably in the same room for about 10 minutes each visit. I have also taken to opening the downstairs windows.

DIL is expecting number 2 before Christmas so tomorrow is her last day of work. She has done her hours already, so will not actually be working. However, she will meet up with a friend for lunch on her last day so we are planning to do our last care session tomorrow. Mrs C and I both know that this is not strictly within the rules, so maybe that makes us no better than the local ladies mentioned above. When I said to Mrs C that we should only go up for a limited time tomorrow (when DIL is out of the house) she was irritated and said we should just do our normal time. But I don't think we should. Normally DIL would be in a different part of the house but she won't be tomorrow.

We are bubbling with them and DIL's parents at Christmas but we are each staying in separate accommodation. One of the places has a very large open plan dining/lounge so that is where Christmas dinner will be and I am fine with that, if we avoid/minimise hugs and keep the windows open. However, I can feel the pressure that folk will want to get closer - and with a new baby others might insist that the windows are closed.

All these little things are feeding together to make me more anxious about it. Of the 6 of us, now that my MIL is no longer with us, I am probably the most vulnerable to being badly hit by Covid. I was not in a shielding category, so far better placed than many people, but my weight, mild asthma and slightly raised blood pressure make me more at risk than average of being very unwell with it.

What I find stressful about it is that each person has their own view now of how much they will nudge the rules - and perhaps we are no exception.

Other than this, we are being super-careful as I think are DIL's parents. DIL has been going nowhere although will have lunch out tomorrow. She and our son will be in hospital for the birth of their child, and son works in a clinical setting part of the week. So there is some risk, but we can manage them if everyone plays their part.

Thanks for listening
C

Clariman
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Re: Covid Christmas anxiety

#364698

Postby Clariman » December 10th, 2020, 10:29 am

With a vaccine around the corner, it would be heart-breaking for anyone to get seriously ill now. In a weird way that seems to be adding to the pressure.

At the moment my social life is pretty much Mrs C only, plus seeing grandson once a week. There is no other social life, apart from virtual, so the rare disagreements with Mrs C have more impact than normal.

sg31
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Re: Covid Christmas anxiety

#364746

Postby sg31 » December 10th, 2020, 11:44 am

Only you can decide what you feel comfortable with, if you don't feel safe don't go. It's your health and your life potentially on the line and only you can decide what risks you are prepared to take.

Of course there are social pressures which make it difficult to say no, we've all got to deal with those as we see fit.

My wife and I have cancelled Christmas this year. It's just one Christmas in a lifetime. We will miss it but there's always next year.

Good luck to you whatever you decide to do.

redsturgeon
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Re: Covid Christmas anxiety

#365388

Postby redsturgeon » December 12th, 2020, 10:21 am

sg31 has said almost everything in as succinct a way as possible...it doesn't make it any easier, I know.

The only thing to add in response to
What I find stressful about it is that each person has their own view now of how much they will nudge the rules


is that you have no control over what others feel comfortable doing, so it is better not to think too hard about this.

Personally Mrs RS and I like to have a good rant about how bad other people are at social distancing etc but we find that cathartic rather than stressful.

Mrs RS is a stickler for the rules while I am slightly more pragmatic, trying to to what is sensible and appropriate rather than sticking to the letter of the rules.

The good thing is that if a majority of people do the right thing then that is enough to limit the spread.

Take care

John

Dod101
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Re: Covid Christmas anxiety

#365394

Postby Dod101 » December 12th, 2020, 10:45 am

I can say that from the evidence before me a lot of people are doing more or less what they want at the moment. As far as Christmas is concerned I think the authorities know that whatever they say people will do what they want/feel comfortable with and I rather think that we will see a surge after Christmas anyway. I live alone and frankly if I were on my own on Christmas Day it would not be very different from any other day and that would not bother me that much, but I am foregoing seeing daughter and her family including a couple of student grand children in favour of having a jolly(!) time with my sister and her husband, of the same vintage as me of course. They probably indulge in a little more socialising than I do but not much.

As Calriman says, with the prospect of a vaccine before too long, it would be disastrous to catch something at this stage so better to try to be safe than sorry.

We must all do what we feel comfortable with. What I want is my usual winter trip to somewhere hot like the Far East but it is not going to happen next year. I will miss that more than anything. Those short grey days that we are currently experiencing really get me down.

Dod

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: Covid Christmas anxiety

#365415

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » December 12th, 2020, 11:53 am

Dod101 wrote:I can say that from the evidence before me a lot of people are doing more or less what they want at the moment. As far as Christmas is concerned I think the authorities know that whatever they say people will do what they want/feel comfortable with and I rather think that we will see a surge after Christmas anyway. I live alone and frankly if I were on my own on Christmas Day it would not be very different from any other day and that would not bother me that much, but I am foregoing seeing daughter and her family including a couple of student grand children in favour of having a jolly(!) time with my sister and her husband, of the same vintage as me of course. They probably indulge in a little more socialising than I do but not much.

As Calriman says, with the prospect of a vaccine before too long, it would be disastrous to catch something at this stage so better to try to be safe than sorry.

We must all do what we feel comfortable with. What I want is my usual winter trip to somewhere hot like the Far East but it is not going to happen next year. I will miss that more than anything. Those short grey days that we are currently experiencing really get me down.

Dod

I take Vitamins D3 and B12 to counter the low mood experienced in winter. The NHS recommends 400iu's of D3 per day in our winter months. I take a little more. B12 can be taken sublingually (left to dissolve under the tongue).

AiY

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Re: Covid Christmas anxiety

#365482

Postby airbus330 » December 12th, 2020, 4:48 pm

Without entirely barricading yourself into your home there isn't a risk free way to live at the moment. It sounds as though you are taking thoughtful precautions, and if you continue taking them the actions of others should be essentially very low risk to you. Unfortunately we are being deluged with information, misinformation and disinformation from the various media and that feeds peoples anxiety. I know what is safe and what is risky and choose my own route through this. I have stopped listening to the news feeds about cv19 and have been pleasantly surprised by how much less stressed by the situation that makes me. I used to work in malaria infested parts of the Far East and did what was necessary to avoid catching it, even though the disease was always present, it didn't rate a daily dissection by news hungry anchormen.

Clariman
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Re: Covid Christmas anxiety

#365611

Postby Clariman » December 13th, 2020, 10:19 am

Thanks everyone. I'm in a slightly better frame of mind. I agree that watching too much news and analysis has a negative impact on mood at the moment, excepting the great news about vaccine development, so I do limit it. I have some interests that I find very engrossing and pleasurable - combination of the intellectually stimulating and creative at the same time.

Friday was fine. We went up later as I had suggested and DIL made herself scarce when we arrived a little earlier than planned. I felt a bit bad that she hid away in her own home, but it demonstrates that she cares and is being considerate. At the end of the day we did spend some time together and our son arrived home early from work. Lovely to see him and we have to hope that the risk is minimal given that he has already had Covid early on (he has antibodies), but I know that does not necessarily mean he can't carry it.

The good thing about Christmas is that my son's father in law is probably even more law abiding and anxious than I am, so there will be 1/3 of the group at the very least who will go around opening closed windows!

One thing I need to do, though, is to decide how I will approach it. Will I go with the assumption and hope that none of us have it and relax while still being careful. Or will I go with the assumption that someone has it and being less relaxed and super careful. Maybe somewhere in between.

The biggest personal challenge I have with this - and it may be the same for most/many people - is not knowing quite how vulnerable I am to being severely affected. If I had a 0.5% chance of being hit badly by it, I'd probably do the maths of how likely I would be to get the infection in the first place and if it netted out 1 chance in 100,000, I wouldn't worry too much about it. If I had a 25% chance of being badly hit if I got it then that might be another matter.

sg31
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Re: Covid Christmas anxiety

#365629

Postby sg31 » December 13th, 2020, 11:13 am

This might help.

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsuppo ... oronavirus

I couldn't answer all the questions, for those I couldn't answer I took the lowest option on the basis that I would know the answer if it was relevant to me.

I'm sure there are other tools out there if you google them.

Mike4
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Re: Covid Christmas anxiety

#365652

Postby Mike4 » December 13th, 2020, 12:02 pm

Clariman wrote:The biggest personal challenge I have with this - and it may be the same for most/many people - is not knowing quite how vulnerable I am to being severely affected. If I had a 0.5% chance of being hit badly by it, I'd probably do the maths of how likely I would be to get the infection in the first place and if it netted out 1 chance in 100,000, I wouldn't worry too much about it. If I had a 25% chance of being badly hit if I got it then that might be another matter.


I too struggled with this back in the early days. As someone over 65 with two co-morbidities (albeit both mild), I established my chances of dying should I catch the virus, were about 1 in 10. I have no idea if this is still the case, but if anyone has any up to date info/stats on calculating one's personal survival probability, I suspect both you and I would appreciate it.

Also, there are things one can do to improve one's chances. Keeping one's 'immunity terrain' in good shape in particular, by considering taking a hefty dose of Vitamin D3 in particular (most doctors commenting seem to take 3,000iu per day - including Dr Fauci - which is 7 times the NHS advice, so little or no consensus there) and also zinc and selenium supplements. There seems to be a mountain of evidence accumulating regarding large suppliments of vitamin D3 in particular with little downside (awaits incoming).

Doing 'something' to look after oneself has a positive effect even if it is just the placebo effect, in my view.

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: Covid Christmas anxiety

#365681

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » December 13th, 2020, 1:43 pm

Covid: Public must think carefully about Christmas risk, NHS bosses warn
... the US saw "record numbers" of cases and deaths after the Thanksgiving holiday - and said the NHS was worried about January.

Self preservation?

AiY

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Re: Covid Christmas anxiety

#366135

Postby AF62 » December 14th, 2020, 4:18 pm

I don’t consider it at all unreasonable to continue to be careful and not to be pressured by the ‘oh it will be fine brigade’.

I live in a tier 2 area that is only tier 2 and not tier 1 because it has been dragged into tier 2 by two cities in the county with high rates compared to my town’s well below average rate. As a result the town mayor has been shouting all over social media about how unfair this is and pubs should be allowed to open and be allowed to just serve beer without food.

Meanwhile my nearest local pub has been pushing the envelope, not only with the minimal food issue but also holding ticketed live events in an outside marquee to get around the restrictions.

And today, in this well below the National average infection rate town, this pub announces that one member of staff found out they tested positive after they had worked their shift on Saturday, and six other members of staff who worked with them have now tested positive and they are trying to trace all those who attended their weekend events - given their lax attitude I would guess that the record of attendance is full of Micky Mouse’s.

I can full well imagine that all those who attended those events justified that ‘it was fine’ as the ladies sitting around that Claiman encountered.

scrumpyjack
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Re: Covid Christmas anxiety

#366145

Postby scrumpyjack » December 14th, 2020, 4:32 pm

Yes it's not just younger people who can be Covidiots.

The trouble with opening pubs in your low Covid area is that people will come from those high Covid towns in your county, as their pubs are closed. That's why it is sensible for yours to be closed too.

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Re: Covid Christmas anxiety

#366553

Postby Howard » December 15th, 2020, 9:58 pm

Clariman wrote:
We are bubbling with them and DIL's parents at Christmas but we are each staying in separate accommodation. One of the places has a very large open plan dining/lounge so that is where Christmas dinner will be and I am fine with that, if we avoid/minimise hugs and keep the windows open. However, I can feel the pressure that folk will want to get closer - and with a new baby others might insist that the windows are closed.

All these little things are feeding together to make me more anxious about it. Of the 6 of us, now that my MIL is no longer with us, I am probably the most vulnerable to being badly hit by Covid. I was not in a shielding category, so far better placed than many people, but my weight, mild asthma and slightly raised blood pressure make me more at risk than average of being very unwell with it.

What I find stressful about it is that each person has their own view now of how much they will nudge the rules - and perhaps we are no exception.

Thanks for listening
C


Your post made me consider Mrs H’s and my decision for Christmas.

A few years ago I caught flu. As a pretty fit individual I was amazed how badly it affected me for around three weeks. It took a few more weeks to totally recover and to be able to feel that I was back to fitness and, for example, to be able to cycle as fast as I could before the illness.

I was pretty sure I caught it by standing in a crowd of people waiting for travellers to arrive in Heathrow Airport. No singing or dancing took place and it was a large terminal but we were all there, close together, waiting for quite a while in a warm environment.

For this reason, I wouldn’t be that happy to share a Christmas lunch with a group of people who have mixed with others a week or two beforehand. It’s easy to say in advance that windows will be open etc. However, in my experience if it gets cold, someone will insist on shutting windows. Others will get too close for comfort. Maybe the chances of getting Covid are still small, but if we got it, I’d kick myself for agreeing to put myself (or Mrs H) in a situation which is difficult to control.

We will host some of our family over Christmas. For an outdoor bbq. Fillet steak butties! We will inevitably get a bit closer than one metre on occasion, but in the open air. And it may not be that long a celebration if the weather is bad. That’s probably the most risky situation we’ll encounter. Yes, it would be nice to go indoors but we’ll have fun and I’m pretty sure we’ll all remember the occasion as a happy and relaxed event.

This is a site where there is a lot of discussion about investing. And many of us assess relatively small monetary risks very carefully. So, apologies if I am sounding an over-cautious note but in my view it isn’t worth risking life/health issues for the short-term benefit of an indoor meal.

I have some fun memories of outdoor activities as a kid in winter. Hopefully my grandchildren will have a few of a 2020 Covid Christmas!

regards, and stay safe all!

Howard

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Re: Covid Christmas anxiety

#366580

Postby Clitheroekid » December 15th, 2020, 11:41 pm

Why not just get everyone attending the Christmas gathering to have a test a day or two before they arrive?

That's what we're doing. It's not infallible, but it will certainly give some reassurance to those in the group that are more than usually concerned.

The NHS tests are very efficient, and if you're worrying about using scarce NHS resources there's no need. I've now had two tests at different sites, and on both occasions I had the choice of any time slot I wanted the very next day. When I arrived there were more testers than testees (if such a word exists!) and I got the distinct impression they were glad to have a customer.

I got the test results the next day on both occasions, so it's really a surprisingly efficient system.

You could always go private if you preferred, at about £120 a time, but to my mind an NHS test can easily be justified as a precautionary measure. Obviously, if the test was positive you wouldn't attend the gathering, so it must surely be better to know you're positive and avoid infecting other people than just flying blind and hoping for the best.

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Re: Covid Christmas anxiety

#366585

Postby Pipsmum » December 16th, 2020, 12:12 am

I'm definitely covid anxious about gatherings. I look after my 89 year old dad (by visiting), and also care for two separate others, aged 89 and 91 in a carer capacity in their own homes. It doesn't seem worth being so careful all year since April, to now compromise anyones safety just for one meal. All other sorts of festivities have been cancelled or restricted, so why keep this one so rule-flabby.

We are going to make the house look lovely to give ourselves a festive feel, and are going to keep our own family separate from all the rest of the sisters/cousins/aunts etc. It has been a general whole family consensus not to even do the normal jolly present exchange, so that potentially contaminated parcels don't change hands either. E-cards are this years way, any gifts can be donations to good causes.

Just for this nasty year, so that we can then hope to stay around long enough to be able to spend many more of them together in years to come. There is be much more fun to be had after waiting, rather than pushing up some daisies now.

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Re: Covid Christmas anxiety

#367075

Postby stevensfo » December 17th, 2020, 5:00 pm

Dod101 wrote:I can say that from the evidence before me a lot of people are doing more or less what they want at the moment. As far as Christmas is concerned I think the authorities know that whatever they say people will do what they want/feel comfortable with and I rather think that we will see a surge after Christmas anyway. I live alone and frankly if I were on my own on Christmas Day it would not be very different from any other day and that would not bother me that much, but I am foregoing seeing daughter and her family including a couple of student grand children in favour of having a jolly(!) time with my sister and her husband, of the same vintage as me of course. They probably indulge in a little more socialising than I do but not much.

As Calriman says, with the prospect of a vaccine before too long, it would be disastrous to catch something at this stage so better to try to be safe than sorry.

We must all do what we feel comfortable with. What I want is my usual winter trip to somewhere hot like the Far East but it is not going to happen next year. I will miss that more than anything. Those short grey days that we are currently experiencing really get me down.

Dod


I would give anything to be at the hotel that we stayed at in Kep, South Cambodia. A French-run hotel , like many in Cambodia, it was just perfect. Not very large, no kids, quiet, a healthy walk to the beach, large room, two pools, utterly relaxing!

Re. Vitamin D and B12 etc, since when did Vit D become important re. immune system? It was always Vit. C & E & zinc. Vit. D assists in control of Calcium uptake. Is all this fake news to keep the masses quiet?


Steve

johnhemming
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Re: Covid Christmas anxiety

#367077

Postby johnhemming » December 17th, 2020, 5:06 pm

stevensfo wrote:Re. Vitamin D and B12 etc, since when did Vit D become important re. immune system? It was always Vit. C & E & zinc. Vit. D assists in control of Calcium uptake. Is all this fake news to keep the masses quiet?


This is a review on pubmed
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23857223/

Vitamin D is more of a hormone (or pro pro hormone) than a vitamin. The hormone produced from it impacts on lots of things.

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Re: Covid Christmas anxiety

#367247

Postby Chrysalis » December 18th, 2020, 8:35 am

Clitheroekid wrote:Why not just get everyone attending the Christmas gathering to have a test a day or two before they arrive?

That's what we're doing. It's not infallible, but it will certainly give some reassurance to those in the group that are more than usually concerned.

The NHS tests are very efficient, and if you're worrying about using scarce NHS resources there's no need. I've now had two tests at different sites, and on both occasions I had the choice of any time slot I wanted the very next day. When I arrived there were more testers than testees (if such a word exists!) and I got the distinct impression they were glad to have a customer.

I got the test results the next day on both occasions, so it's really a surprisingly efficient system.

You could always go private if you preferred, at about £120 a time, but to my mind an NHS test can easily be justified as a precautionary measure. Obviously, if the test was positive you wouldn't attend the gathering, so it must surely be better to know you're positive and avoid infecting other people than just flying blind and hoping for the best.



The difficulty with this approach is that I suspect many, many people will have the same idea. Also, the efficiency and capacity of your testing service depends on where you are and how many local cases there are. The figures for return within 24 hours are not great on average, and I suspect may not be great on the 22-24 December... There is of course the wider issue that tests should be available for those who are symptomatic and really need to know. If people want to keep each other safe at Christmas, they can self isolate for 7-10 days before any indoor family gathering.

I do sympathise with the peer pressure issues, particularly for those with large families. Personally, I think there is a strong argument for staying with your usual household over Christmas. If I was an older person with a partner I would be fine with that.
We have an older relative who lives alone. He will be alone on Christmas Day, we will visit on Boxing Day, but without the teenagers (our sons school has had a lot of cases in the last weeks of term). That is our best compromise between company and safety - we will avoid having the young and the old under the same roof. He has also luckily had his first vaccination dose so we know that it won’t be long before we can all visit together (and even by Christmas he should have some protection).

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Re: Covid Christmas anxiety

#367316

Postby sg31 » December 18th, 2020, 10:57 am

Chrysalis wrote:
We have an older relative who lives alone. He will be alone on Christmas Day, we will visit on Boxing Day, but without the teenagers (our sons school has had a lot of cases in the last weeks of term). That is our best compromise between company and safety - we will avoid having the young and the old under the same roof. He has also luckily had his first vaccination dose so we know that it won’t be long before we can all visit together (and even by Christmas he should have some protection).


That's a really difficult decision for anyone. It's a balance between the risk to the elderly person and their obvious need for family at this time of year. The fact he is so near to being protected and being able to resume his normal part in the family makes it all the more difficult.

3 weeks until he can mix with family again and the current risk to his health. It's a decision I'm glad I don't have to make.


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