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Dividends and Interest

Practical Issues
Tedx
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Dividends and Interest

#666625

Postby Tedx » May 30th, 2024, 12:57 pm

I have an elderly relative who has dividends/interest over the allowances for 2023/24 and for 2024/25

I read on 'This is Money'

If you are employed or get a pension, HMRC will automatically update your tax code to collect any tax on savings interest.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/sav ... ct-me.html


I take it this isn't the case if you exceed the dividend allowance (He got £1100 in dividends last year - so just over last year and more so in this tax year...)

He gets an occupational pension paid through PAYE.

As I understand it, If the dividends are under £10k then he can contact HMRC and have them change his tax code so the tax is deducted through his pension income - so different from the cash interest set up?

So if he does need to get in touch with HMRC, whats the best to contact them? I always had the best results with a good old fashioned letter. I can't see him hanging on the phone for ages with multiple button options...........let alone email.

So I was thinking of a letter just saying I received £1100 dividends in 2023/24 and £1500 in bank interest. If you have not already done so please adjust my tax code accordingly.

Does he have the same deadlines as with submitting a tax return?

Thanks

mc2fool
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Re: Dividends and Interest

#666630

Postby mc2fool » May 30th, 2024, 1:40 pm

Yeah, they could, but from what I gather HMRC will then assume that they'll get the same amount of divis and interest in this and future years and the tax code adjustment will become permanent until and unless they write another letter.

Possibly easiest (assuming patience in listening to muzak until you get through!) is just to call them, with all the relevant numbers and debit card in hand, and just get them to take payment for the additional tax due on the spot.

kempiejon
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Re: Dividends and Interest

#666633

Postby kempiejon » May 30th, 2024, 1:54 pm

mc2fool wrote:Yeah, they could, but from what I gather HMRC will then assume that they'll get the same amount of divis and interest in this and future years and the tax code adjustment will become permanent until and unless they write another letter.


They did this to my tax code, I had got them to reset to the normal personal allowance for last year after 2 years of having to ask them to adjust it back as I preferred to pay my tax bill directly with them. I used a handy online chat service. This new year they have estimated a small tax bill and adjusted my tax code for 24/25. As I'm due a rebate due to change in income I'm going to wait a few months see if they tidy it up themselves.

I was going to try and contact them using afore mentioned handy online chat service but its gone. I found this https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/ask-hmrc ... s-helpdesk but talk to advisor didn't get anywhere.

stevensfo
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Re: Dividends and Interest

#666676

Postby stevensfo » May 30th, 2024, 4:55 pm

kempiejon wrote:
mc2fool wrote:Yeah, they could, but from what I gather HMRC will then assume that they'll get the same amount of divis and interest in this and future years and the tax code adjustment will become permanent until and unless they write another letter.


They did this to my tax code, I had got them to reset to the normal personal allowance for last year after 2 years of having to ask them to adjust it back as I preferred to pay my tax bill directly with them. I used a handy online chat service. This new year they have estimated a small tax bill and adjusted my tax code for 24/25. As I'm due a rebate due to change in income I'm going to wait a few months see if they tidy it up themselves.

I was going to try and contact them using afore mentioned handy online chat service but its gone. I found this https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/ask-hmrc ... s-helpdesk but talk to advisor didn't get anywhere.


That's why I don't think you can beat an official letter, recorded delivery for this sort of thing.

Once TedX has sent it, he can use the same template next year and put the date in his calendar. So easy, and unlike a telephone conversation, there's a nice paper trail.

Unless of course, you like spending hours on the phone and listening to muzak? ;)

Steve

Tedx
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Re: Dividends and Interest

#666678

Postby Tedx » May 30th, 2024, 4:58 pm

That was kinda my thinking...plus 'I refer you to my letter of the xxxxxxxx' can be used in the future

mc2fool
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Re: Dividends and Interest

#666682

Postby mc2fool » May 30th, 2024, 5:08 pm

Tedx wrote:That was kinda my thinking...plus 'I refer you to my letter of the xxxxxxxx' can be used in the future

Yeah, AIUI there's a lot more muzak nowadays than there used to be. :(

However, writing a letter doesn't necessitate getting your tax code changed. You could give them the numbers and ask them to figure out the tax due and bill you. Or, if you're feeling confident, figure it out yourself and include a cheque with the letter. ;)

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Re: Dividends and Interest

#666686

Postby kempiejon » May 30th, 2024, 5:16 pm

mc2fool wrote:However, writing a letter doesn't necessitate getting your tax code changed. You could give them the numbers and ask them to figure out the tax due and bill you. Or, if you're feeling confident, figure it out yourself and include a cheque with the letter.


I like that plan. I'd try it and you get to see when they cash the cheque.
When I had dividends to pay I had worked it all out and the amounts and had the numbers the advisor the wanted my numbers, worked it out for me and I paid by card there and then.

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Re: Dividends and Interest

#666733

Postby gryffron » May 30th, 2024, 9:44 pm

stevensfo wrote:That's why I don't think you can beat an official letter, recorded delivery for this sort of thing.

Large Govt departments who receiv thousands of letters a day aren't likely to sign for recorded delivery. So I think you're wasting your money on that. One of tracked options is probably best.

Gryff

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Re: Dividends and Interest

#666776

Postby didds » May 31st, 2024, 8:25 am

gryffron wrote:
stevensfo wrote:That's why I don't think you can beat an official letter, recorded delivery for this sort of thing.

Large Govt departments who receiv thousands of letters a day aren't likely to sign for recorded delivery. So I think you're wasting your money on that. One of tracked options is probably best.

Gryff


And is supported by "law" of some description.

two days after proof of posting (1st class mail) ISTR is the legally accepted situation. I'm surprised this myth of recorded post still exists on these boards as this seems to crop up regularly.

AIUI also IF a letter is to be signed for, and the receiver refuses to sign, then the letter has NOT been delivered, with proof now that it hasn't. Which isn't what was required by the proposed action.

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Re: Dividends and Interest

#666787

Postby mc2fool » May 31st, 2024, 9:20 am

gryffron wrote:
stevensfo wrote:That's why I don't think you can beat an official letter, recorded delivery for this sort of thing.

Large Govt departments who receiv thousands of letters a day aren't likely to sign for recorded delivery.

The passport office does.

SalvorHardin
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Re: Dividends and Interest

#666792

Postby SalvorHardin » May 31st, 2024, 9:33 am

mc2fool wrote:
gryffron wrote:Large Govt departments who receiv thousands of letters a day aren't likely to sign for recorded delivery.

The passport office does.

And in theory HMRC does.

It is well established that posting a letter is sufficient to accept a contract, even if the letter never arrives. This is the "postal rule" from Adams v Lindsell (1818)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adams_v_Lindsell

I'm in dispute with HMRC over a fine for late submission of a tax return. Their problem is that I have a courier's receipt showing that they accepted delivery of it, dated 8th April, three days after the end of the tax year.

So far it's only been a mere twenty months since I sent in my appeal against the fine (again sent by courier) and I'm yet to get a reply. Given HMRC's legendary "efficiency" I might get a reply sometime in the 2030s.

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Re: Dividends and Interest

#666875

Postby stevensfo » May 31st, 2024, 6:00 pm

didds wrote:
gryffron wrote:Large Govt departments who receiv thousands of letters a day aren't likely to sign for recorded delivery. So I think you're wasting your money on that. One of tracked options is probably best.

Gryff


And is supported by "law" of some description.

two days after proof of posting (1st class mail) ISTR is the legally accepted situation. I'm surprised this myth of recorded post still exists on these boards as this seems to crop up regularly.

AIUI also IF a letter is to be signed for, and the receiver refuses to sign, then the letter has NOT been delivered, with proof now that it hasn't. Which isn't what was required by the proposed action.


AIUI also IF a letter is to be signed for, and the receiver refuses to sign, then the letter has NOT been delivered, with proof now that it hasn't. Which isn't what was required by the proposed action.


A very interesting point. I did think of becoming a lawyer when I was a young boy but our Biology teacher persuaded me to go into the sciences.

Okay, not the UK but when I worked in France, I was told to send anything very important via 'reccommandee avec accuse de reception', basically a few thin slips stuck on the letter, one stamped and handed to me as proof of sending. Another stamped and signed on delivery and sent back to me by post.

I once asked about a letter being refused and was told that it would carry no weight in court, and after the 2-3 attempts to deliver it, be looked upon suspiciously.


Steve

PS I was always a cynical bugger even in my 20s and used to write the reason for the letter in the very tiny space left on the slip. Since those days, my cynicism has increased by at least warp factor 10. ;)

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Re: Dividends and Interest

#666879

Postby didds » May 31st, 2024, 6:49 pm

stevensfo wrote:Okay, not the UK but when I worked in France, I was told to send anything very important via 'reccommandee avec accuse de reception', basically a few thin slips stuck on the letter, one stamped and handed to me as proof of sending. Another stamped and signed on delivery and sent back to me by post.



Im neither a lawyer in either nation, but Id imagine potentially the law is different in the two countries

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Re: Dividends and Interest

#666881

Postby stevensfo » May 31st, 2024, 6:58 pm

didds wrote:
stevensfo wrote:Okay, not the UK but when I worked in France, I was told to send anything very important via 'reccommandee avec accuse de reception', basically a few thin slips stuck on the letter, one stamped and handed to me as proof of sending. Another stamped and signed on delivery and sent back to me by post.



I'm neither a lawyer in either nation, but Id imagine potentially the law is different in the two countries


Yeah, probably is and no doubt gets changed or modified occasionally.

But I rather like the French version and hope that it's the same in the UK.

Otherwise, you can go on ignoring the order to appear in court for years...and years...and years. ;)

Steve

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Re: Dividends and Interest

#666884

Postby didds » May 31st, 2024, 7:26 pm

stevensfo wrote:Otherwise, you can go on ignoring the order to appear in court for years...and years...and years. ;)

Steve



not if the letter is sent normally with proof of posting - legally deemed to have arrived on the second day after positing by 1st class. (3 days if by 2nd class?)

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Re: Dividends and Interest

#667451

Postby abbeymeadster » June 4th, 2024, 5:16 pm

Inspired by this, I have just posted a letter to HMRC containing a small cheque as I calculated I owed them some dividend tax for 23/24. I mentioned in a different thread that Fidelity had deducted income tax from interest payments made to me - so I took the opportunity to nett that off from the amount I owe HMRC. :lol:

What's the betting on if/when my cheque will be cashed?

My guess is that the cheque will be cashed in 6 weeks and that 6 weeks after that I get a letter roughly along the lines of "What's this for? Can you provide further details" (even though I've provided the calculations.)

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Re: Dividends and Interest

#667455

Postby Tedx » June 4th, 2024, 5:21 pm

Good stuff. Do lettuce know how things panned out


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