What do do with relative's share portfolio following death

[Longtermyieldman]

Its double the allowance as of the date of the second person's death.

And this is retrospective? As in it applies even though the first spouse (my granddad) died literally 39 days ago today, while my grandma passed only yesterday? If so then we definitely don't need to jump through IHT hoops - though I don't know how we'll be able to prove that he left everything to her, given how long ago it happened.

[Chrysalis]

When I had to deal with my second parent dying, we got the residential nil rate band for my mother as well as my father, even though my mother died in 2004. So yes, it is carried forward to present day values.
I’d still be surprised if you didn’t need probate. Do let us know

[PinkDalek]

Condolences.

This is a speedy late at night reply and should be taken in that vein. I'm glad to have brought the transferable nil rate band to your attention but the many diversions and some unintended misinformation provided so far hasn't really helped you.

And this is retrospective? As in it applies even though the first spouse (my granddad) died literally 39 days ago today, while my grandma passed only yesterday? If so then we definitely don't need to jump through IHT hoops - though I don't know how we'll be able to prove that he left everything to her, given how long ago it happened.

I provided a link earlier in the thread as to how to claim*** for a claim is what is needed and that takes you into the realms of IHT paperwork.

Have you had the chance to read it and to see what documentation is required? If not I'll try and remember to come back to the thread tomorrow. Come what may, you may have to jump through IHT hoops, as you put it, but, at last, we appear to be moving in the right direction. One document would be the Will. If you don't have it we can provide a link as to how it can be purchased or it may be mentioned on the IHT402/IHT217. That's assuming he didn't die intestate.

39 years was in the days of Capital Transfer Tax but it looks like you don't have to worry about further additional requirements, as per the link I mentioned, for (first) deaths between 27 July 1981 and 17 March 1986, if my maths at this late hour is correct as to when your Grandfather died (16 January 1981?). 1986 date was when IHT replaced Capital Transfer Tax.

One thing you haven't said, what precisely happened to the bungalow or any other property your Grandmother owned and when?

Any major gifts in the past 7 years?

If needs be, what investments are held? Some may qualify for 100% IHT Business Relief but you may not need to find out if the Estate and any failed Gifts are still below whatever nil rate band is available.

*** https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/inheritance-tax-claim-to-transfer-unused-nil-rate-band-iht402

I've yet to check if you are to submit IHT400. I'll have to look at the requirements as it may only be an IHT205 is required but then you may have to be looking at IHT217 ***https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/371956/iht217.pdf

I'm ignoring the possible greater bandings for property for the moment, as I said previously, especially as given the size of the Estate you quote, it may not be needed.

I'm also continuing to ignore the ongoing mention of not going through the Probate process. If that's the route you are proposing, I'd get paid for advice rather than relying on some people's hobby horses.

I've written more than I intended so stopping now.

E&OE

[Longtermyieldman]

Condolences.

This is a speedy late at night reply and should be taken in that vein. I'm glad to have brought the transferable nil rate band to your attention but the many diversions and some unintended misinformation provided so far hasn't really helped you.

And this is retrospective? As in it applies even though the first spouse (my granddad) died literally 39 days ago today, while my grandma passed only yesterday? If so then we definitely don't need to jump through IHT hoops - though I don't know how we'll be able to prove that he left everything to her, given how long ago it happened.

I provided a link earlier in the thread as to how to claim*** for a claim is what is needed and that takes you into the realms of IHT paperwork.

Have you had the chance to read it and to see what documentation is required? If not I'll try and remember to come back to the thread tomorrow. Come what may, you may have to jump through IHT hoops, as you put it, but, at last, we appear to be moving in the right direction. One document would be the Will. If you don't have it we can provide a link as to how it can be purchased or it may be mentioned on the IHT402/IHT217. That's assuming he didn't die intestate.

39 years was in the days of Capital Transfer Tax but it looks like you don't have to worry about further additional requirements, as per the link I mentioned, for (first) deaths between 27 July 1981 and 17 March 1986, if my maths at this late hour is correct as to when your Grandfather died (16 January 1981?). 1986 date was when IHT replaced Capital Transfer Tax.

One thing you haven't said, what precisely happened to the bungalow or any other property your Grandmother owned and when?

Any major gifts in the past 7 years?

If needs be, what investments are held? Some may qualify for 100% IHT Business Relief but you may not need to find out if the Estate and any failed Gifts are still below whatever nil rate band is available.

*** https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/inheritance-tax-claim-to-transfer-unused-nil-rate-band-iht402

I've yet to check if you are to submit IHT400. I'll have to look at the requirements as it may only be an IHT205 is required but then you may have to be looking at IHT217 ***https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/371956/iht217.pdf

I'm ignoring the possible greater bandings for property for the moment, as I said previously, especially as given the size of the Estate you quote, it may not be needed.

I'm also continuing to ignore the ongoing mention of not going through the Probate process. If that's the route you are proposing, I'd get paid for advice rather than relying on some people's hobby horses.

I've written more than I intended so stopping now.

E&OE

Thanks again - very useful info.

It looks like we need copies of my grandad's will and death certificate and my grandparents' wedding certificate, to prove that the IHT exemption or its predecessor was not used back when he passed away. It looks like we can get them from an official source if we don't have them.

My grandad died before 27 July 1981 (namely 16 January 1981) - I'm unsure how this affects things.

My grandma sold the bungalow in about 1987 and bought a flat for about half the value and invested the rest in unit trusts. She has made no major gifts and I don't believe any of the shares are BPR-eligible.

An additional complication is that we have three photocopies of the will but no original so understand we need to sign an affadavit and go to court to 'prove' the will.

In light of the complexities I suspect we may end up using a solicitor or perhaps a firm that specialises in obtaining probate.

[scrumpyjack]

quite often the solicitors who drew up the will keep the original. Worth checking if they have it.

[Lootman]

My grandma sold the bungalow in about 1987 and bought a flat for about half the value and invested the rest in unit trusts.

Wait, does she still own the flat?

If so then you will need probate regardless, even if you had possession of all the other assets AND there was no IHT due. Because you won't be able to sell it otherwise.

Also the value of that flat would comprise part of the estate and could potentially push the value of the estate over the (two) nil-rate band(s).

So you'd then have both the probate hoops and the IHT hoops.

[Longtermyieldman]

My grandma sold the bungalow in about 1987 and bought a flat for about half the value and invested the rest in unit trusts.

Wait, does she still own the flat?

If so then you will need probate regardless, even if you had possession of all the other assets AND there was no IHT due. Because you won't be able to sell it otherwise.

Also the value of that flat would comprise part of the estate and could potentially push the value of the estate over the (two) nil-rate band(s).

So you'd then have both the probate hoops and the IHT hoops.

No, we sold it 5yrs ago when she went into a care home, adding the proceeds to the share portfolio so it would generate sufficient income (together with pensions) to pay the fees for said establishment. So the estate comprises £575k of shares and perhaps £10-15k of current account balance, so below £600k.

Also I've said in a previous post that we have only photocopies of the will. My uncle (her son) has now found the original.

[PinkDalek]

[No, we sold it 5yrs ago when she went into a care home ...

If the Inheritance Tax: main residence nil-rate band and the existing nil-rate band https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/inheritance-tax-main-residence-nil-rate-band-and-the-existing-nil-rate-band/inheritance-tax-main-residence-nil-rate-band-and-the-existing-nil-rate-band was enacted as originally proposed, that might enable the Estate to qualify for the residence nil rate band, if needed, depending on the precise date of 5 years ago:

The additional nil-rate band will also be available when a person downsizes or ceases to own a home on or after 8 July 2015 and assets of an equivalent value, up to the value of the additional nil-rate band, are passed on death to direct descendants.

If the disposal was pre 8 July 2015 and based on your numbers, the residence nil rate band may not be needed, if you can gather sufficient evidence formally to claim 100% or so of the Grandfather's potentially unused nil rate band (£325,000 x X%).

Returning to an earlier post of yours and sorry to repeat the links:

My grandad died before 27 July 1981 (namely 16 January 1981) - I'm unsure how this affects things.

I don't think it does. The dates I quoted were for then and didn't apply to 16 January 1981.

You are still left with not only getting hold of the Grandfather's Will (which is simple) and any Deed of Variation but also the Grant of Representation and the further information needed to complete https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/371956/iht217.pdf or more likely https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/497793/IHT402.pdf whichever is applicable.

Such as their date of marriage, place of marriage and answers to the other more detailed questions. One wonders if HMRC holds some or all of that information already. It might be an idea to contact them and they are extremely helpful:

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/probate-and-inheritance-tax-enquiries

The IHT saving may amount to up to £13,000 (£325,000 at 40%) so it would appear to be money well spent in engaging a Solicitor, if you can't find the detail yourselves, whereas a competent Solicitor would know what to do in the circumstances. If you can find out who were the Executors way back then or any firm that assisted in his Estate, that might assist in locating the detail.

I have a similar situation this end, although thankfully there's been no second death, and I'm still building up the requisite paperwork, despite having it all somewhere or other, so this thread of yours has helpfully prompted me to restart that process.

Hopefully it will also help others, who weren't aware that such paperwork should be kept, relying on the methods of this decluttering society of which, for my sins, I'm not a member!

Edit: The Will you have now found is the Grandmother's, yes? You need to ensure it is her Last Will and Testament.

[PinkDalek]

The IHT saving may amount to up to £13,000 (£325,000 at 40%) so it would appear to be money well spent in engaging a Solicitor ...

Dreadful typing error. You'll have known that I meant up to £130,000!

[Chrysalis]

Yes, I was surprised to need to produce my mum’s will, grant of probate and my parents’ marriage certificate.