Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

Practical Issues
Alaric
Lemon Half
Posts: 6033
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 9:05 am
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 1399 times

Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#380986

Postby Alaric » January 26th, 2021, 4:53 pm

Lootman wrote: (Of course, the CTC can be wrong as well).


Unless you research at the time, you are often reliant on the CTC to identify exceptions. These can include ITs paying interest under streaming rules, ETFs paying interest, shares listed abroad, which includes the Channel Isles, PIDs and very possibly others that I have yet to encounter. Brokers won't necessarily flag a dividend as "unusual" when first paid.

SalvorHardin
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2049
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:32 am
Has thanked: 5297 times
Been thanked: 2465 times

Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#380990

Postby SalvorHardin » January 26th, 2021, 4:58 pm

Lootman wrote:Yes, I miss the walk-in tax offices. Everything was so easy back then.

There are two reasons I would not submit on April 6th. The first is what I said earlier. Unless I made no trades in the last 30 days of the tax year, I would want to be certain there isn't a new trade that invokes the 30-day rule. This could even be something involuntary like a corporate action. I got caught out that way once.

The second thing is that if I was keeping a spreadsheet of dividends and planning on using that for my return, which I do not, then I think I would still want to cross-check that against the CTC to reduce the risk of a transcription error finding its way into my return. (Of course, the CTC can be wrong as well).

What I really liked about the walk-in tax office was that you could actually discuss matters with a person (sometimes even the local inspector of taxes). Also the staff were pleasantly surprised if you got your return in super early. Those were the days :D

Point taken about the 30 day rule. I've never had to worry about that as I get my taxable sales done early in the year, though if I did sell close to 5th April I'd delay my tax return for a few weeks just in case I felt the need to buy back.

In my case dividends are double checked with the dividend spreadsheet against my ancient copy of Microsoft Money.

XFool
The full Lemon
Posts: 12636
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:21 pm
Been thanked: 2608 times

Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381018

Postby XFool » January 26th, 2021, 6:47 pm

Alaric wrote:The regular Government Gateway for tax returns is
https://www.access.service.gov.uk/login/signin/creds
which I believe is the same as it's always been.

Or possibly not!

You cannot access the service from this page
To access this service, you must return to the government page you came from and start again.

Try this one:

https://www.gov.uk/log-in-file-self-assessment-tax-return/sign-in/prove-identity

dealtn
Lemon Half
Posts: 6072
Joined: November 21st, 2016, 4:26 pm
Has thanked: 441 times
Been thanked: 2324 times

Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381112

Postby dealtn » January 27th, 2021, 8:29 am

Lootman wrote:
dealtn wrote:
bluedonkey wrote:Best to do tax returns earlier, say in June or July.

Why? In my case the required inputs aren't available then, so I would be using estimates, which would need correcting later. How is that better?

What inputs take that long?


In my case partnerships, currently 3. The accounts for which typically arrive around September.

So June or July, as proposed, would involve using estimates, and subsequent revision. With a January deadline, and in theory "interest" to be earned by delaying payment, why would it be "best" to do it in the early summer?

bluedonkey
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1791
Joined: November 13th, 2016, 3:41 pm
Has thanked: 1394 times
Been thanked: 652 times

Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381134

Postby bluedonkey » January 27th, 2021, 9:52 am

dealtn wrote:
Lootman wrote:
dealtn wrote:Why? In my case the required inputs aren't available then, so I would be using estimates, which would need correcting later. How is that better?

What inputs take that long?


In my case partnerships, currently 3. The accounts for which typically arrive around September.

So June or July, as proposed, would involve using estimates, and subsequent revision. With a January deadline, and in theory "interest" to be earned by delaying payment, why would it be "best" to do it in the early summer?

In your specific case then perhaps do it after September but before January. The tax is due 31 January after the end of the tax year, regardless of when the return was submitted.

Bouleversee
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4652
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 5:01 pm
Has thanked: 1195 times
Been thanked: 902 times

Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381360

Postby Bouleversee » January 27th, 2021, 8:14 pm

Getting back to basics, having been told I must pay any tax due before Jan. 31 to the Cumbernauld office's sort code and account no., I paid what I calculate to be rather more than the tax due to be on the safe side, printed out the SA return forms, and having been given till Feb. 14 to submit the paper return as it had proved impossible to submit my return online, and having had to deal with another domestic emergency, I sat down late this afternoon to fill in the umpteen pages of the form. I hit a query straight away: Top left of first page has a box headed "HM Revenue and Customs Office address", with "telephone" underneath. Top right has a box headed "Issue address" with the words "For" and "Reference" underneath each other. I assume that I should put the Cumbernauld office's address (which I found on the internet) in the left hand box and their phone no And I suppose that Issue Address must be my address, but what about the For and Reference? I have already put my UTR and NINO at the top of the form. They don't make life easy, do they?

I shall have to do computations for share disposals because my net gains were over £13k which is a bore, but at least they were simple purchases and sales or takeovers of the whole holdings and there won't be tax to pay because I have agreed c/f losses of considerably more than that, I regret to say.

I see my phone calls to HMRC over the weekend and on Monday cost me nearly £6. I shall try to get that back since they were due to some glitch in their system, without which I could have submitted my return online without any problems.

bluedonkey
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1791
Joined: November 13th, 2016, 3:41 pm
Has thanked: 1394 times
Been thanked: 652 times

Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381363

Postby bluedonkey » January 27th, 2021, 8:25 pm

Bouleversee wrote:Getting back to basics, having been told I must pay any tax due before Jan. 31 to the Cumbernauld office's sort code and account no., I paid what I calculate to be rather more than the tax due to be on the safe side, printed out the SA return forms, and having been given till Feb. 14 to submit the paper return as it had proved impossible to submit my return online, and having had to deal with another domestic emergency, I sat down late this afternoon to fill in the umpteen pages of the form. I hit a query straight away: Top left of first page has a box headed "HM Revenue and Customs Office address", with "telephone" underneath. Top right has a box headed "Issue address" with the words "For" and "Reference" underneath each other. I assume that I should put the Cumbernauld office's address (which I found on the internet) in the left hand box and their phone no And I suppose that Issue Address must be my address, but what about the For and Reference? I have already put my UTR and NINO at the top of the form. They don't make life easy, do they?

I shall have to do computations for share disposals because my net gains were over £13k which is a bore, but at least they were simple purchases and sales or takeovers of the whole holdings and there won't be tax to pay because I have agreed c/f losses of considerably more than that, I regret to say.

I see my phone calls to HMRC over the weekend and on Monday cost me nearly £6. I shall try to get that back since they were due to some glitch in their system, without which I could have submitted my return online without any problems.

Issue address: your address
For: your name
HMRC office: HMRC, BX9 1AS [the absence of a postal town is correct]

Bouleversee
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4652
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 5:01 pm
Has thanked: 1195 times
Been thanked: 902 times

Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381371

Postby Bouleversee » January 27th, 2021, 9:29 pm

Many thanks, Blue Donkey. So the BX address is the same for all paper returns? Just as well I checked. What about Ref: ? And what about their office phone no? I'd found the Cumbernauld one but no idea how to find one for BXN 1AS.
How are we supposed to know this? Pity I am not psychic. I couldn't find anything about this on their website.

I may be back with more queries.

bluedonkey
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1791
Joined: November 13th, 2016, 3:41 pm
Has thanked: 1394 times
Been thanked: 652 times

Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381375

Postby bluedonkey » January 27th, 2021, 9:45 pm

Bouleversee wrote:Many thanks, Blue Donkey. So the BX address is the same for all paper returns? Just as well I checked. What about Ref: ? And what about their office phone no? I'd found the Cumbernauld one but no idea how to find one for BXN 1AS.
How are we supposed to know this? Pity I am not psychic. I couldn't find anything about this on their website.

I may be back with more queries.

Don't bother with entering the HMRC tel no. Ref: you've already put your UTR. I think you're sorted, TBH.

Gersemi
Lemon Slice
Posts: 492
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:57 pm
Has thanked: 535 times
Been thanked: 222 times

Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381378

Postby Gersemi » January 27th, 2021, 10:02 pm

bluedonkey wrote:
Bouleversee wrote:Many thanks, Blue Donkey. So the BX address is the same for all paper returns? Just as well I checked. What about Ref: ? And what about their office phone no? I'd found the Cumbernauld one but no idea how to find one for BXN 1AS.
How are we supposed to know this? Pity I am not psychic. I couldn't find anything about this on their website.

I may be back with more queries.

Don't bother with entering the HMRC tel no. Ref: you've already put your UTR. I think you're sorted, TBH.


The general idea is that HMRC fill these boxes in before issuing the return to you, so the point of the telephone number is so that you can phone them. You don't need to tell them what their telephone number is. I think you have downloaded a copy of the paper return which is why the boxes are blank.

Bouleversee
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4652
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 5:01 pm
Has thanked: 1195 times
Been thanked: 902 times

Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381391

Postby Bouleversee » January 27th, 2021, 11:03 pm

If it's the same address for everyone, why on earth don't they print it on the downloadable forms? I might need their phone no. as well. And why don't they say "your name and address" rather than " Issue address"? And if they don't need a reference no, why ask for it? Waste of everyone's time. Thank you for yours,

Gengulphus
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4255
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:17 am
Been thanked: 2628 times

Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381450

Postby Gengulphus » January 28th, 2021, 10:28 am

Bouleversee wrote:And if they don't need a reference no, why ask for it?

To allow you to tell them what your own reference for the tax return is. E.g. tax advisers with many clients might give each one of them a client number when they take them on, before they know what their UTR and National Insurance numbers are (and possibly even before the client actually has those reference numbers at all), and identify each client's file by their client number. When the tax adviser sends HMRC any correspondence about a client (including tax returns), they tell HMRC what their own reference is for the client as well as what HMRC's references are, and HMRC do the same when they reply - that way, both HMRC and the tax adviser can quickly bring up their files on the client.

There are a few circumstances in which individuals would find giving their own reference useful, if e.g. they're handling both their own and their offsprings' tax returns and they've been unwise enough to give their offspring the same name as themselves. But most individuals won't have any use for it and can leave it blank.

Gengulphus

Bouleversee
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4652
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 5:01 pm
Has thanked: 1195 times
Been thanked: 902 times

Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381451

Postby Bouleversee » January 28th, 2021, 10:32 am

Thanks for the education, Geng. I had rather assumed tax advisers/accountants would do everything online.

bluedonkey
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1791
Joined: November 13th, 2016, 3:41 pm
Has thanked: 1394 times
Been thanked: 652 times

Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381463

Postby bluedonkey » January 28th, 2021, 10:54 am

Bouleversee wrote:Thanks for the education, Geng. I had rather assumed tax advisers/accountants would do everything online.

They do!

Gengulphus
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4255
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:17 am
Been thanked: 2628 times

Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381499

Postby Gengulphus » January 28th, 2021, 11:58 am

Bouleversee wrote:Thanks for the education, Geng. I had rather assumed tax advisers/accountants would do everything online.

At least the vast majority of them certainly do, yes. But as far as I can see in the online tax returns I have saved in the past, the end result of the online submission process is the same as the paper return, just in PDF form with the various boxes, etc, filled in electronically rather than being written / typed on a paper printout. So tax advisers/accountants will want the "Reference" area to be on the tax return form, even if they only actually use it in the PDFs that online submission produces and not in the 'template' PDF that one can download and print out for a paper return.

HMRC could of course make the 'template' PDF be a slightly simplified version of what's produced by the online system that omits the "Reference" area - but that would just mean that they would end up with twice as many tax return layouts to maintain. And there probably are a few tax return submitters who would be seriously annoyed by it - e.g. the fairly small number of individuals who have a use for the "Reference" area probably include an even smaller number who distrust the online system to the extent of refusing to use it, and there may still be a few tax advisers in business who are 'stuck in the 20th century'.

Incidentally, I suspect the "For" and "Telephone" areas are also mainly for tax advisers/accountants, especially large firms, so that they can give contact details for the person handling the case. And I should add that those details and the "Reference" do appear later in the return (page 7) - but clearly having them at the top of the tax return as well is convenient compared with having to scroll / leaf through the return to find them.

Gengulphus

PinkDalek
Lemon Half
Posts: 6139
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:12 pm
Has thanked: 1589 times
Been thanked: 1801 times

Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381512

Postby PinkDalek » January 28th, 2021, 12:27 pm

Bouleversee wrote:If it's the same address for everyone, why on earth don't they print it on the downloadable forms? ..


Merely to add to previous replies & to confirm the address suggested, it is not the same address for everyone.

About half way down here https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/self-assessment-tax-return-sa100, under the Details header, you'll see:

You’ll need to post your completed paper tax return to HMRC.

If you live in the UK send to:

Self Assessment
HM Revenue & Customs
BX9 1AS
United Kingdom

If you live outside the UK send to:

HM Revenue & Customs
Benton Park View
Newcastle Upon Tyne
NE98 1ZZ
United Kingdom

Bouleversee
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4652
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 5:01 pm
Has thanked: 1195 times
Been thanked: 902 times

Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381513

Postby Bouleversee » January 28th, 2021, 12:32 pm

Many thanks, PD. I wonder why I was told to pay the tax to Cumbernauld office. Maybe everyone has to do that as well.

bluedonkey
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1791
Joined: November 13th, 2016, 3:41 pm
Has thanked: 1394 times
Been thanked: 652 times

Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381518

Postby bluedonkey » January 28th, 2021, 12:49 pm

Bouleversee wrote:Many thanks, PD. I wonder why I was told to pay the tax to Cumbernauld office. Maybe everyone has to do that as well.

Yes, you pay the tax to Cumbernauld but you're assuming that's also the address where the return is sent - it's not!

Alaric
Lemon Half
Posts: 6033
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 9:05 am
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 1399 times

Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381521

Postby Alaric » January 28th, 2021, 12:58 pm

Bouleversee wrote: I wonder why I was told to pay the tax to Cumbernauld office. Maybe everyone has to do that as well.


There are two payment collection offices Cumbernauld and Shipley. I believe both are distinct from the people who nominally review the submitted return. One tip if using on-line banking to pay is to make sure your UTR is on the payment narrative. I think it's supposed to have a "K" added to the end of the number string. If the UTR isn't present there the payment may get lost in their system.

Bouleversee
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4652
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 5:01 pm
Has thanked: 1195 times
Been thanked: 902 times

Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381560

Postby Bouleversee » January 28th, 2021, 2:19 pm

Alaric wrote:
Bouleversee wrote: I wonder why I was told to pay the tax to Cumbernauld office. Maybe everyone has to do that as well.


There are two payment collection offices Cumbernauld and Shipley. I believe both are distinct from the people who nominally review the submitted return. One tip if using on-line banking to pay is to make sure your UTR is on the payment narrative. I think it's supposed to have a "K" added to the end of the number string. If the UTR isn't present there the payment may get lost in their system.

Yes, I did that, thanks.


Return to “Taxes (Practical)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests