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Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

Practical Issues
Bouleversee
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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381562

Postby Bouleversee » January 28th, 2021, 2:26 pm

bluedonkey wrote:
Bouleversee wrote:Many thanks, PD. I wonder why I was told to pay the tax to Cumbernauld office. Maybe everyone has to do that as well.

Yes, you pay the tax to Cumbernauld but you're assuming that's also the address where the return is sent - it's not!


That's what I thought would be likely/logical I but thought it best to check on here and you put me straight so the correct address is on my return.

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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381578

Postby AF62 » January 28th, 2021, 2:46 pm

BobGe wrote:This extra verification was brought in several years ago so I'm surprised there are any accounts where it's just being applied now. I noted the issue back in January 2017 but I'm aware it was introduced in 2016 (but not made immediately mandatory). Verifying via a UK passport is easiest, if you have one. The credit check, a function of one of the credit agencies, just produces daft questions if you don't happen to regularly sign up to some credit agreements. If not it will likely ask you to recall some event of 15-30 years ago, or concerning something which they have on file which may not be correct. If you fail that test a couple of times you get locked out for a period. Not useful if one's trying to file by a deadline.


I just logged in using my Government Gateway account, and was asked my user name (the 12 digit number) and password, then the next page asked for the number from the Authenticator App I had previously registered, and that was it. Nothing else.

Have others who are experiencing issues enabled 2FA with an Authenticator App?

XFool
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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381591

Postby XFool » January 28th, 2021, 3:54 pm

AF62 wrote:I just logged in using my Government Gateway account, and was asked my user name (the 12 digit number) and password, then the next page asked for the number from the Authenticator App I had previously registered, and that was it. Nothing else.

Have others who are experiencing issues enabled 2FA with an Authenticator App?

Not me, never heard of an "Authenticator App". I just use two phone numbers: mobile, landline.

It is beginning to sound as if, after initial GG log on with user ID and password, the next page that comes up may be dependant on the ID of the user.
I just get a page asking which of the two phone numbers I want to use to receive the MFA PIN. It is sent to my mobile in a jiffy and no problems from there.

Alaric
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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381601

Postby Alaric » January 28th, 2021, 4:37 pm

XFool wrote:I just get a page asking which of the two phone numbers I want to use to receive the MFA PIN. It is sent to my mobile in a jiffy and no problems from there.


I have the impression it remembers that you've had a code sent to your mobile and run a login using it, for a while at least. Having recently logged in, I've been able to login without needing a new code.

But I may be using the system differently, preparing my Return off line using the program taxcalc and then submitting electronically when I believe it complete.

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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381610

Postby AF62 » January 28th, 2021, 5:15 pm

XFool wrote:
AF62 wrote:I just logged in using my Government Gateway account, and was asked my user name (the 12 digit number) and password, then the next page asked for the number from the Authenticator App I had previously registered, and that was it. Nothing else.

Have others who are experiencing issues enabled 2FA with an Authenticator App?

Not me, never heard of an "Authenticator App". I just use two phone numbers: mobile, landline.

It is beginning to sound as if, after initial GG log on with user ID and password, the next page that comes up may be dependant on the ID of the user.
I just get a page asking which of the two phone numbers I want to use to receive the MFA PIN. It is sent to my mobile in a jiffy and no problems from there.


An Authenticator App resides on your smartphone and has a rolling code for each site you have registered it with to enter as the second part of 2FA. There are a variety of apps you can choose to use, but they all work in the same way - https://gizmodo.com/the-best-authentica ... 1840711013

The HSBC / First Direct smartphone apps work in a similar way by generating the code to enable you to log in to your bank account.

The advantage over other methods such as texted codes is that you don't need a mobile phone connection as they work stand alone and are not subject to 'sim swap' fraud.

Bouleversee
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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381647

Postby Bouleversee » January 28th, 2021, 6:52 pm

I give my landline no. and receive a spoken (automatic) code on that. The problems start after I have put that into my computer.

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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381665

Postby XFool » January 28th, 2021, 7:37 pm

...What happens next, after you have entered the PIN?

Bouleversee
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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381682

Postby Bouleversee » January 28th, 2021, 7:56 pm

Please see my post 380015 and subsequent posts. I never got the chance to enter anything about the credit card.

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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381701

Postby XFool » January 28th, 2021, 8:44 pm

...So a selection is made on a per user basis, immediately after logon via the PIN. We still don't know on what basis.

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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381901

Postby DrFfybes » January 29th, 2021, 1:15 pm

Reading this thread I was dreading a repeat of the hassle of previous login issues when I'd also set up Verify and I thnk got confused with teh GG details.

Anyway I entered the ID and password, got a code texted, and all was well (although it is odd when you provide the SDLT submission reference you still have to tell them how much you paid and want back).

Then I tried to change the driving licence address, and this one did go into Verify rabbitholes.

Addresses for last 3 years, licence number, phone number, passport number, town of birth, mother's maiden name, AND NI number were needed.

Having gone through all those loopholes they then had the cheek to ask me for a Kidney, although they at least had the good grace to explain I would be dead first.

Paul

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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381933

Postby ursaminortaur » January 29th, 2021, 2:17 pm

DrFfybes wrote:
Having gone through all those loopholes they then had the cheek to ask me for a Kidney, although they at least had the good grace to explain I would be dead first.

Paul


I thought they had already changed to an opt-out rather than the old opt-in system for organ donations so would be surprised if they are asking you to allow them to put you on the organ donor register to give a kidney. Though since you have two kidneys and can survive with one they might ask you to make a live donation. :)

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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381955

Postby XFool » January 29th, 2021, 3:11 pm

DrFfybes wrote:Reading this thread I was dreading a repeat of the hassle of previous login issues when I'd also set up Verify and I thnk got confused with teh GG details.

Anyway I entered the ID and password, got a code texted, and all was well (although it is odd when you provide the SDLT submission reference you still have to tell them how much you paid and want back).

Then I tried to change the driving licence address, and this one did go into Verify rabbitholes.

Addresses for last 3 years, licence number, phone number, passport number, town of birth, mother's maiden name, AND NI number were needed.

Having gone through all those loopholes they then had the cheek to ask me for a Kidney, although they at least had the good grace to explain I would be dead first.

So you are definitely verifying ID/logging on via the GOV.UK Verify route, not Government Gateway (GG) route? None of this stuff about "Addresses for last 3 years, licence number, phone number, passport number, town of birth, mother's maiden name, AND NI number" are ever needed (for most users!) simply logging on via the GG logon route for SA. Still less anything to do with kidneys!

I'd try to get a GG account if I were you! If that's still possible...

(Does this really happen every time you just log on via GOV.UK Verify? I thought it would be just a one off, for initial ID verification.)

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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#381990

Postby DrFfybes » January 29th, 2021, 4:01 pm

XFool wrote:
I'd try to get a GG account if I were you! If that's still possible...

(Does this really happen every time you just log on via GOV.UK Verify? I thought it would be just a one off, for initial ID verification.)


I did the tax via GG with no problems, but other services use Verify (I think) which wasn't via the gov.uk site and was more challenging. In the past I set up Verify as I think I clicked the wrong login link to do SA and remember it took far longer to get into my account than it did to fill in the return.

Oh, and if anyone is thinking of moving house and has had GG or NS&I or similar things for longer than they've had a mobile phone, make sure you change the phone number to a mobile one before you move as they'll ring the old one for the 2 step authentication when you log on to try and change your address :(

Paul

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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#390634

Postby bungeejumper » February 27th, 2021, 2:43 pm

Alaric wrote:I have the impression it remembers that you've had a code sent to your mobile and run a login using it, for a while at least. Having recently logged in, I've been able to login without needing a new code.

You can often keep your access code active for seven days if you've pressed the right button. But it looks like the GG problem may be getting more widespread. I've just been trying to do my quarterly VAT return, and GG says it's sending me a code to my mobile, and then it doesn't, so I can't get any further.

I pressed the "Need help with this page?" button, and it told me that I wasn't allowed to access that page from the page where the button had appeared. (Expletive deleted. :evil: ) I tried a second time, and this time I got a message about how the site was experiencing technical difficulties. I sent a feedback note to the gateway people, and they said they'd get back to me within two days. :|

I can only think that the system is currently swamped by people trying to get their self assessment forms in by 28th February (tomorrow?)

BJ

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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#390732

Postby XFool » February 27th, 2021, 10:21 pm

...Just signed in as usual. No problems.

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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#390819

Postby bungeejumper » February 28th, 2021, 9:49 am

XFool wrote:...Just signed in as usual. No problems.

Finally managed to get a code this morning, after seven failed attempts yesterday. So my VAT return is now done. HMRC's website is running like treacle, everything is desperately slow. I guess it must be all those last-minute self-assessment forms, then?

It does rather raise a question, though. If I've had this trouble, then presumably so have a couple of million SA form-fillers? Will be interesting to see whether the press report anything. ;)

BJ

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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#390942

Postby Bouleversee » February 28th, 2021, 6:28 pm

You seem to have suffered the hell I went through towards the end of January but at least you managed it in the end. I was eventually advised to forward a paper return. I have now received the tax calculation showing the tax due but no reference is made to the slightly larger sum I had paid in advance to avoid a fine (which I mentioned when I sent in the return) and I have been told I must log on to my account to see my SA statement. Nor is any reference made to the log-in difficulties I mentioned then. I suppose it is just churned out by a robot. I shall have one go now but am not wasting a lot of time over it. If I don't get through first time I shall leave it for a few days in the hope that the rush will be over.

I love their statement at the end: "This tax calculation is based on figures in your tax return, before it has been checked. It is not our confirmation that your return is complete and correct. If, at a later date, your return is found to be incorrect, your tax calculation will be amended accordingly."

I'd better see how it relates to my paper return and own calculation of tax due before I try to log on.

I still intend to complain if I can find the time, though I suppose they will say that that is what happens if everyone leaves it so late. Perhaps the OP could tell us what happened about his complaint.

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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#390957

Postby JohnB » February 28th, 2021, 7:35 pm

My complaint is now at level 3 (of 4)

I was forced to do a paper return, they sent me a calculation based on it where they ignored various of the numbers on the paper return, and forgot the tax I was forced to prepay last year. The errors are in our favour, and I'm not inclined to correct them, as I have done a valid return.

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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#390963

Postby Bouleversee » February 28th, 2021, 7:49 pm

How come if they haven't allowed for the pre-paid tax? Won't they be hounding you for that? Has it been checked yet, as per my quote above? If not, they may spot the errors in the checking. Did you look on the back of the pages? I've just spotted a comment on the back of one of mine which I hadn't noticed when I first looked at it.

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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#390966

Postby PinkDalek » February 28th, 2021, 8:10 pm

Bouleversee wrote:... I have now received the tax calculation showing the tax due but no reference is made to the slightly larger sum I had paid in advance ...


Yes, the Tax Calculations (SA302) do not show Income Tax payments made on account. Merely the Income and Capital Gains Tax due in respect of the tax year concerned.

Does not the covering letter state something along the lines of?:

"The above figures do not include payments already made or amounts outstanding or becoming due."

... and I have been told I must log on to my account to see my SA statement


That's along the lines of the standard wording but, in so far as I am concerned, I subsequently receive a hard copy Self Assessment Statement. Mind you, there is a de minimis I think on issuing the hard copy statements, so hopefully you'll be able to find the details on your SA Account as they/you say.

If you can get back in!


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