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Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

Practical Issues
Bouleversee
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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#391000

Postby Bouleversee » February 28th, 2021, 10:51 pm

PD - Yes it did say that, which is why I have to log in. I'd like confirmation that the payment was rec'd. and a refund of the balance on the way. However, if there is any chance of a paper assessment being on the way (it doesn't mention that) I'm tempted to wait for that. I have more than enough to do.

I also had another letter in a separate envelope which starts "We're writing to let you know that the last SA tax return you'll need to complete is for the year ended 5 April 2020". A bit strange since they'd sent me a tax calculation for that year in the same post and I have interest and dividends which vary from year to year but were above the allowance for that year and will be for 2020-21 as well. It goes on to say that I must now log into my online acct. and check I've sent all my outstanding returns (including final year), if I owe them any money or if they owe me. Also points out deadlines for filing returns and penalties if late. Under headline "What you need to do in future" it says that if my circumstances change I can view and update my tax information online using my Personal Tax Account (PTA). www.gov.uk,/personal-tax-account and that I'll my NI no. and either a recent payslip, P.60 or passport to confirm my identity. If I need to fill in a tax return in the future, I'll have to register for SA again and another address is given to check if I need a tax return. What on earth are they on about? My circumstances may well change, in a variety of ways (some better than others :lol: ) but why on earth are they saying I don't need to do any more returns now? What a waste of everyone's time. And as for 4 levels of complaint, words fail me. What idiots are running this?

I've just been offered over £200 compensation by Phoenix Life because I complained about delays in payment and errors in the amounts due in relation to my main annuity for Jan 1 and Feb 1, not the best time to fail to pay annuitants. Dealing with incompetence and stupid letters which didn't match the actual events there was bad enough but once I pointed out the further errors it was sorted, with deep apologies, quite quickly. All down to a new computer system which had teething problems, now sorted, so they say. We'll see what gets paid into my bank account tomorrow. The thought of having further problems with HMRC makes me feel very cross. I wonder if they have given any explanation to John B. during the course of his complaint. It doesn't sound as though that log-in problem has been resolved. It's action to stop it happening again I want rather more than money. We should not have to waste our valuable time over these things. That can't be quantified.

It will all have to wait till tomorrow, now.

JohnB
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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#391007

Postby JohnB » February 28th, 2021, 11:24 pm

Levels 1 and 2 of the complaint process fobbed me off. The level 2 chap was good at responding, and claimed to ask other departments, but still the best he came up with was "its industry practice".

I got the same letter about not needing to do SA for 20-21. I know I will need to do one because of Mum's untaxed income, but I will wait until summer before asking for a SA. Its not my job to unravel their incompetence.

Gersemi
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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#391250

Postby Gersemi » March 1st, 2021, 5:43 pm

Bouleversee wrote:
I also had another letter in a separate envelope which starts "We're writing to let you know that the last SA tax return you'll need to complete is for the year ended 5 April 2020". A bit strange since they'd sent me a tax calculation for that year in the same post and I have interest and dividends which vary from year to year but were above the allowance for that year and will be for 2020-21 as well.


They told me to stop doing returns a couple of years ago, and I have taxable interest and dividends as well. They get the details from the banks and the brokers and send you a calculation sometime in the Autumn. However I found that the figures were wrong, when I rang up and gave them the correct figures they amended with no problems, but I do wonder if this is really easier than just getting me to fill in a return.

I ring up and give them my estimates for the current year in February so they can amend my PAYE code in time for March, so get more or less the right amount deducted from my pay. At the moment the amount is less every year so I get a refund through my salary (as well as rates going down I'm transferring £20K into my ISA every year).

I'm retiring next year - as I am some years off getting any pensions my income will be well under the personal allowance, so I'll get off this merry-go-round at that point.

XFool
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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#492182

Postby XFool » April 6th, 2022, 2:25 pm

We never did get to the bottom of this topic. Perhaps this news will make things better, or worse! :?

viewtopic.php?p=492158#p492158

XFool
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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#504845

Postby XFool » June 4th, 2022, 12:36 pm

Everyone seen this thread? - In Venture Capital Trusts (VCT's)

viewtopic.php?p=504536#p504536

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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#504882

Postby XFool » June 4th, 2022, 6:13 pm

Logged in to my online Tax Account, looked here and there. No problems until I clicked on the About You option, then got this:

We now need to confirm your identity
You will be asked to give details about two items you may have, like your:

UK passport
payslips or P60
Self Assessment
tax credits and Voice ID
Northern Ireland driving licence
You may also be able to answer questions about your credit record.


We ask these questions to protect you against malicious or fraudulent attempts to access the service.

CONTINUE

Choose 2 items we can ask you about
UK passport
You need a valid UK passport
Self Assessment
You need details from your recent Self Assessment returns
Credit reference questions
For example, the year you took out a credit card or phone contract
Northern Ireland driving licence

CONTINUE

Logged out again! :)

I wonder if HMRC have been having problems with people trying to hijack online accounts?

mc2fool
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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#505063

Postby mc2fool » June 5th, 2022, 3:32 pm

XFool wrote:Logged in to my online Tax Account, looked here and there. No problems until I clicked on the About You option

What About You option? There's Your profile in the options across the top but I don't see an About You anywhere.... :?

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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#505065

Postby XFool » June 5th, 2022, 3:53 pm

mc2fool wrote:
XFool wrote:Logged in to my online Tax Account, looked here and there. No problems until I clicked on the About You option

What About You option? There's Your profile in the options across the top but I don't see an About You anywhere.... :?

List of side links in Self Assessment 'department':

Self Assessment
About You

Is it my imagination or is the online tax account site becoming more labyrinthine over time?

I see they have now added this to the login page:

Keeping your information secure
Do not share your Government Gateway user ID and password with anyone else.

XFool wrote:I wonder if HMRC have been having problems with people trying to hijack online accounts?

Or people passing their account details to others?

mc2fool
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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#505071

Postby mc2fool » June 5th, 2022, 4:22 pm

XFool wrote:
mc2fool wrote:
XFool wrote:Logged in to my online Tax Account, looked here and there. No problems until I clicked on the About You option

What About You option? There's Your profile in the options across the top but I don't see an About You anywhere.... :?

List of side links in Self Assessment 'department':

Self Assessment
About You

What side links? Is this a case of it looks different for everybody? 'Cos on a google images search I couldn't find one which looks like mine, which is:

Image

It goes on to have similar panels for a variety of Benefits (even though I have none) and then Pensions.

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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#505075

Postby XFool » June 5th, 2022, 4:43 pm

mc2fool wrote:
XFool wrote:
mc2fool wrote:
XFool wrote:Logged in to my online Tax Account, looked here and there. No problems until I clicked on the About You option

What About You option? There's Your profile in the options across the top but I don't see an About You anywhere.... :?

List of side links in Self Assessment 'department':

Self Assessment
About You

What side links? Is this a case of it looks different for everybody?

It goes on to have similar panels for a variety of Benefits (even though I have none) and then Pensions.

No, not the main Home page, in the Self Assessment section.

mc2fool
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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#505079

Postby mc2fool » June 5th, 2022, 4:53 pm

XFool wrote:
mc2fool wrote:
XFool wrote:
mc2fool wrote:
XFool wrote:Logged in to my online Tax Account, looked here and there. No problems until I clicked on the About You option

What About You option? There's Your profile in the options across the top but I don't see an About You anywhere.... :?

List of side links in Self Assessment 'department':

Self Assessment
About You

What side links? Is this a case of it looks different for everybody?

It goes on to have similar panels for a variety of Benefits (even though I have none) and then Pensions.

No, not the main Home page, in the Self Assessment section.

Ah, going into Self Assessment and then Complete your tax return and you then get a list on the right that is:

File a return menu
1. Welcome
2. Tell us about you
3. Tailor your return
4. Fill in your return
5. Check your return
6. View your calculation
7. Save your return
8. Submit your return
Provide feedback
Tax return options
How to pay

?

If so Tell us about you was prefilled for me and nothing of the sort you mention. Actually I've already filled by return for last year but have yet to submit it, as I need to just go over and double check everything.

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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#505083

Postby XFool » June 5th, 2022, 5:07 pm

...I've rather lost the will to live! :)

It is there, I assure you. And, as other people have reported on that VCT thread, it now crops up if you want to claim a refund of overpaid tax.
I have not yet done my return, so have not experienced that, but it is in the Self Assessment/Account/Payments/etc. section under About You.

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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#505088

Postby mc2fool » June 5th, 2022, 5:17 pm

XFool wrote:...I've rather lost the will to live! :)

It is there, I assure you. And, as other people have reported on that VCT thread, it now crops up if you want to claim a refund of overpaid tax.
I have not yet done my return, so have not experienced that, but it is in the Self Assessment/Account/Payments/etc. section under About You.

Ah! Home page -> Self Assessment -> View your payments. Why didn't you say so?! :D

Yup, it's there. Same for me. I don't expect any refunds so I doubt it'll be an issue for me....

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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#505120

Postby XFool » June 5th, 2022, 7:56 pm

Revisiting the OP, in light of recent events:

JohnB wrote:I tried to login in to the Government Gateway to do Mum's self assessment tax return, as I have the last few years. This time it asks for 2 extra security items, passport (nope) and credit check (no credit history), and no alternative. 55 minutes on the phone to HMRC and they refuse to help or give daft suggestions, suggesting she completes a paper return. How can I fight this?

(she has pre-paid the tax, by my calculation she is owed a £12 refund)

Hang on...

Could we be seeing the shape of a possible answer here?

The OP was trying to do somebody else's tax SA online - albeit his mums. Also, she was owed a refund - needs to be paid to a bank account. This involves details of personal information.

As described in other places, HMRC now does require further, additional security information inside the Personal Tax Account where access to, or changes to, personal information inside the online account is involved. Such as bank details for paying refunds or simply accessing personal information while online.

viewtopic.php?p=504536#p504536

viewtopic.php?p=504882#p504882

HMRC do seem to be tightening up identity security inside the online Personal Tax Account. Presumably to help protect against account hijacking.
There is also a warming about not divulging your GG login details on the login page.

Bouleversee
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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#505126

Postby Bouleversee » June 5th, 2022, 8:58 pm

XFool wrote:Revisiting the OP, in light of recent events:

JohnB wrote:I tried to login in to the Government Gateway to do Mum's self assessment tax return, as I have the last few years. This time it asks for 2 extra security items, passport (nope) and credit check (no credit history), and no alternative. 55 minutes on the phone to HMRC and they refuse to help or give daft suggestions, suggesting she completes a paper return. How can I fight this?

(she has pre-paid the tax, by my calculation she is owed a £12 refund)

Hang on...

Could we be seeing the shape of a possible answer here?

The OP was trying to do somebody else's tax SA online - albeit his mums. Also, she was owed a refund - needs to be paid to a bank account. This involves details of personal information.

As described in other places, HMRC now does require further, additional security information inside the Personal Tax Account where access to, or changes to, personal information inside the online account is involved. Such as bank details for paying refunds or simply accessing personal information while online.

viewtopic.php?p=504536#p504536

viewtopic.php?p=504882#p504882

HMRC do seem to be tightening up identity security inside the online Personal Tax Account. Presumably to help protect against account hijacking.
There is also a warming about not divulging your GG login details on the login page.


I doubt if that has anything to do with it. I was logging in via Govt. Gateway on my own computer to start doing my own return, received the security code and typed it in and was then asked to choose extra security questions which I couldn't answer. I didn't know and nor could they have at that stage whether I owed them any tax or they owed me a rebate. I raised a complaint (after having an unsatisfactory conversation with someone at HMRC) and eventually was sent a paper return and given extra time to complete it. As mentioned either earlier here or another thread, I sent it by express delivery, enclosing a cheque for a sum which should have been more than sufficient to cover any tax due. The cheque has been debited to my bank acct. but I have nonetheless received a letter saying that they have given me a penalty of £100 for being late and telling me I must do a return (preferably on-line :roll:) whether I owe any tax or not, despite having told me sometime last year that I didn't need to do a return, which I couldn't understand as I have quite a few share holdings, including some certificated ones, whose income has varied considerably in recent years.

Needless to say, I have contacted the complaints dept. again and received an assurance that the penalty will be cancelled and the matter looked into, though I haven't yet received the promised confirmatory email. I said he ought to report the situation to whoever is responsible for setting up this extra security as it is causing difficulty for a lot of elderly people. My guess is that when they sent the letters to people saying they didn't need to submit a return in the future, their online accounts were cancelled and they were treated like new registrations. Maybe first timers all do get asked the extra security questions but nobody I know who has been filing online for some time is ever asked them despite HMRC trying to tell us that everyone now has to answer these questions which are irrelevant and unanswerable in many cases, especially as a P60 doesn't help unless you are actually employed. As in many of the large organisations in this country now, the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and systems and programmes are set up by incompetents. It is beyond belief that they can't ask you about your UK driving licence because DVLA can't provide the answers or that they can't ask questions which old people could answer.

I really don't see the need for extra security questions anyway. If they are sending the security code to the same phone no, and any refunds to the same bank acct. as previously, what is there to fear? I can't think it would be worth a fraudster's while to hack accounts in the hope of getting a small rebate directed to their own account.

I suggest John B. should make a complaint. If enough of us do it, maybe they will eventually get their act together and come up with a system that works for everyone. I should mention that the same thing happened to me the previous year, though I had filed my return without problems in previous years) and I said then that I hoped the problem would have been solved by the time it came to doing the next year's return. I would like to get the 2021-22 return done a.s.a.p. but would prefer to do it online so I hope they sort it soon. Will keep you posted if I learn anything of interest.

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Re: Impossible extra security checks with government Gateway doing SA

#505130

Postby JohnB » June 5th, 2022, 9:16 pm

No, I acted as if I were Mum, as I always do on computers. I have a PoA but am not triggering it and getting into a different verification morass as she has all her marbles, just a fear of forms and no computer skills at all. And I did make a formal complaint, which they handled glacially slowly. I only abandoned the complaint when HMRC made errors processing the paper form in our favour.

HMRC are sending out paper forms omitting pages we filled in the last few years, so the idiocy continues


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