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HMRC have lost the plot again - Paper tax returns
Posted: April 25th, 2023, 3:55 pm
by Gan020
HMRC have written to tell me to do an on-line tax return this year.
Only I can't for the same reason I haven't been able to do one for the last 10 years which is because I have Trust income and their software doesn't deal with that yet
No worries I thought, I'll get a paper copy SA100 of the internet like I've done for very many years.
Only HMRC have deliberately removed it and I have to phone for it. This is a pain for me but I'm thinking to myself that it might not be a bad idea as I'm sure as part of the process they will encourage people to do online which will save some administration. Only they don't. I phoned up which took 5-10 minutes of my time and now the forms are in the post no questions asked.
It's not all bad news though I guess. Including all the suplementary pages it's about 100 sides of pages I won't be printing for me and my wife.
Re: HMRC have lost the plot again - Paper tax returns
Posted: April 25th, 2023, 4:10 pm
by Lootman
I always do a paper return and would take it very badly if the government tried to tell me I cannot do that. After all, do they want the taxes I owe them or not?
In my case I use an accountant and so they provide the paper version, which I then post in. Apparently accountants have to submit returns online but individuals do not, so the work-around is that your accountant prints it all out and then you post it off yourself with a cheque. No problem so far and my accountant has indicated already that this will work again this year.
Re: HMRC have lost the plot again - Paper tax returns
Posted: April 25th, 2023, 5:54 pm
by stewamax
'Accredited' packages - I use TaxCalc - will handle both discretionary and non-discretionary trust income, even if HMRC's own browser-based system does not.
There are also additional chargeable modules for submitting returns for trusts and estates.
The first can be submitted online in the usual way using your personal Government Gateway registration and personal UTR.
(To submit a trusts and estates return you need a separate 'organisation' Gateway registration and UTR.)
But both can be submitted online by 'anyone' - as opposed to a professional tax agent accredited as such with HMRC.
The only return I have encountered that can be submitted online only by a tax agent is the SATR for a deceased person (the latter's UTR is blocked for Gateway use on death); the agent uses his/her own Gateway registration per pro the deceased person whereas a private individual cannot do this.
Re: HMRC have lost the plot again - Paper tax returns
Posted: April 25th, 2023, 6:20 pm
by JohnB
Re: HMRC have lost the plot again - Paper tax returns
Posted: April 25th, 2023, 6:47 pm
by 88V8
Gan020 wrote:HMRC have written to tell me to do an on-line tax return this year.
No worries I thought, I'll get a paper copy SA100 of the internet like I've done for very many years.
I always send a paper return. Tried online once, that was enough thankyou.
Last year I had to print off the form but this year they have sent me one. Maybe it varies according to which office one is dealing with.
V8
Re: HMRC have lost the plot again - Paper tax returns
Posted: April 26th, 2023, 8:04 am
by Gan020
Thanks for the replies. I see there is SA100 I can dowload. That will teach me to listen to others on the internet saying it wasn't available or only available with a watermark!
They sent my wife a paper one this year for the first time. Usually I print my own. It makes no sense to me how they make their decisions as both mine and my wife's returns contain exactly the same boxes completed!
Re: HMRC have lost the plot again - Paper tax returns
Posted: April 26th, 2023, 8:51 am
by mutantpoodle
the OP was saying that 'trust income' he received was not possible to declare on the HMRC online system
NOT
a trust tax return
I have been in same position ............have now closed the trusts so saving daft extra work
Re: HMRC have lost the plot again - Paper tax returns
Posted: April 26th, 2023, 9:57 am
by Lanark
Here's a copy I converted to black and white with a few tweaks to save on print toner.
Its a little bit blurry as a result, but you know if they don't like it they can send me a nice sharp one.
https://www.sendspace.com/file/um2xp0
Re: HMRC have lost the plot again - Paper tax returns
Posted: April 26th, 2023, 10:49 am
by 88V8
Lanark wrote:Here's a copy I converted to black and white with a few tweaks to save on print toner.
Errm, can't your printer be set to black & white anyway?
V8
Re: HMRC have lost the plot again - Paper tax returns
Posted: April 26th, 2023, 1:44 pm
by Lanark
88V8 wrote:Lanark wrote:Here's a copy I converted to black and white with a few tweaks to save on print toner.
Errm, can't your printer be set to black & white anyway?
V8
with a few tweaks to save on print toner.
Re: HMRC have lost the plot again - Paper tax returns
Posted: April 26th, 2023, 3:27 pm
by stewamax
mutantpoodle wrote:the OP was saying that 'trust income' he received was not possible to declare on the HMRC online system NOT a trust tax return
I know; I was giving information on both lest OP was also the trustee who had to submit the trust's return as well as his/her own.
Re: HMRC have lost the plot again - Paper tax returns
Posted: April 26th, 2023, 3:34 pm
by scrumpyjack
You can use SA2000, an Excel based system, to complete and print your return for submission. It is free to do that, or you can pay about £12 for it to submit the return online.
https://www.sa2000.co.uk/I prefer Taxcalc but if you want a free alternative...
(They also do the Trust return SA900 on the same basis)
Re: HMRC have lost the plot again - Paper tax returns
Posted: May 10th, 2023, 8:58 am
by Gan020
So to follow up HMRC sent me last week the SA108 and SA110 which are the CGT pages and the tax calculation summary.
To follow are SA100, SA101, SA106 and SA107 which is the main tax return, the additional information pages, foreign pages and trust pages.
Are they really trying to tell me these forms are "out of stock" in late April?
I give up. I cannot be bothered to wait any longer. I'll just print them out and use those.
Re: HMRC have lost the plot again - Paper tax returns
Posted: May 10th, 2023, 9:50 am
by bluedonkey
Lootman wrote:I always do a paper return and would take it very badly if the government tried to tell me I cannot do that. After all, do they want the taxes I owe them or not?
In my case I use an accountant and so they provide the paper version, which I then post in. Apparently accountants have to submit returns online but individuals do not, so the work-around is that your accountant prints it all out and then you post it off yourself with a cheque. No problem so far and my accountant has indicated already that this will work again this year.
I'm curious, why do you not have your accountant submit online?
Re: HMRC have lost the plot again - Paper tax returns
Posted: May 10th, 2023, 10:40 am
by XFool
bluedonkey wrote:Lootman wrote:I always do a paper return and would take it very badly if the government tried to tell me I cannot do that.
In my case I use an accountant and so they provide the paper version, which I then post in.
I'm curious, why do you not have your accountant submit online?
Don't ask... Just
DON'T!
Re: HMRC have lost the plot again - Paper tax returns
Posted: May 10th, 2023, 1:11 pm
by Lootman
bluedonkey wrote:Lootman wrote:I always do a paper return and would take it very badly if the government tried to tell me I cannot do that. After all, do they want the taxes I owe them or not?
In my case I use an accountant and so they provide the paper version, which I then post in. Apparently accountants have to submit returns online but individuals do not, so the work-around is that your accountant prints it all out and then you post it off yourself with a cheque. No problem so far and my accountant has indicated already that this will work again this year.
I'm curious, why do you not have your accountant submit online?
If I had a reason to do an online return then I would have my accountant do it, so that I do not have to deal with online tax accounts and the like.
But so far nobody has given me a reason to submit online. Obviously my accountant prepares my return using software and then prints it off. As long as he is happy to do that then I see no reason to change the practice of decades.
One letter a year is about as much work as I think it should be.
Re: HMRC have lost the plot again - Paper tax returns
Posted: May 11th, 2023, 8:40 am
by Nocton
Lootman: "But so far nobody has given me a reason to submit online. "
Because:
- it is easy to do
- at the start you set up the form, which means if you don't have capital gains, property, etc. that part of the form does not appear
- you can amend it as often as you like before submitting, testing out things like gift aid this year or last, etc. to minimise tax paid
- it costs nothing and you do not need to pay an accountant or use any special software, although some do as below - just keep records: dividends as they come in and any share sales for CGT
- it can handle most things, including sale of a substantial private business.
I have used on-line for over 10 years and would not dream of using paper.
Re: HMRC have lost the plot again - Paper tax returns
Posted: May 11th, 2023, 8:47 am
by Lootman
Nocton wrote:Lootman: "But so far nobody has given me a reason to submit online. "
Because:
- it is easy to do
- at the start you set up the form, which means if you don't have capital gains, property, etc. that part of the form does not appear
- you can amend it as often as you like before submitting, testing out things like gift aid this year or last, etc. to minimise tax paid
- it costs nothing and you do not need to pay an accountant or use any special software, although some do as below - just keep records: dividends as they come in and any share sales for CGT
- it can handle most things, including sale of a substantial private business.
I have used on-line for over 10 years and would not dream of using paper.
I think what this proves is that people do not like change. Neither of us would change the way we do it now, even though we have chosen to do this in different ways for different reasons. So as long as we can choose either method, everyone should be happy and that is for the best.
FYI I do not keep records of dividends since they are all in the consolidated tax certificate I receive. For CGT I do have to keep track of the cost basis, but that is it. Overall it is probably less than an hour's work a year.
But yes I do pay my accountant. Worth it to me for the peace of mind and he sometimes finds allowances I can claim that I would not have known about.
Re: HMRC have lost the plot again - Paper tax returns
Posted: May 11th, 2023, 9:29 am
by JohnB
If, like Mum, you are forced to submit on paper, 2 years out of 3 HMRC cock up the calculation, as I proved by typing her numbers into my online account. After complaint, the revised paper calculation matched the online one...
Re: HMRC have lost the plot again - Paper tax returns
Posted: May 11th, 2023, 9:39 am
by Lootman
JohnB wrote:If, like Mum, you are forced to submit on paper, 2 years out of 3 HMRC cock up the calculation . . .
In whose favour were the errors?
