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Co-op Group 11% 2025 - half way mark

Gilts, bonds, and interest-bearing shares
johnhemming
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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 - half way mark

#292765

Postby johnhemming » March 20th, 2020, 8:04 pm

That explains it.

hiriskpaul
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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 - half way mark

#303568

Postby hiriskpaul » April 27th, 2020, 12:15 pm

Results out Friday: https://www.londonstockexchange.com/exc ... 15614.html

In short, a great year, lots of money handed out to good causes, profits up, net debt down. Which is just as well...

Would not be surprised to see a loss this year, but they are clearly capable of much belt tightening so I am not really concerned yet.

Wizard
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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 - half way mark

#303721

Postby Wizard » April 27th, 2020, 11:57 pm

hiriskpaul wrote:Results out Friday: https://www.londonstockexchange.com/exc ... 15614.html

In short, a great year, lots of money handed out to good causes, profits up, net debt down. Which is just as well...

Would not be surprised to see a loss this year, but they are clearly capable of much belt tightening so I am not really concerned yet.

Our local Co-Op is, from anecdotes, doing very well as people steer clear of bigger food stores. They have also maintained good stock of some items in short supply in the local Waitrose. Surely the funeral business is doing OK, not a pleasant topic but relevant nonetheless.

ptr120
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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 - half way mark

#303878

Postby ptr120 » April 28th, 2020, 2:27 pm

Wizard wrote: Surely the funeral business is doing OK, not a pleasant topic but relevant nonetheless.


According to their industry body, apparently not. Costs have risen due to things like PPE, and due to the current situation people are not spending on the profitable extras which is where funeral businesses really make their money.

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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 - half way mark

#303919

Postby Wizard » April 28th, 2020, 4:49 pm

ptr120 wrote:
Wizard wrote: Surely the funeral business is doing OK, not a pleasant topic but relevant nonetheless.


According to their industry body, apparently not. Costs have risen due to things like PPE, and due to the current situation people are not spending on the profitable extras which is where funeral businesses really make their money.

Thinking about it that makes sense. No use going for the exotic hardwood coffin with gold handles if nobody is allowed to be there to see it.

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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 - half way mark

#383931

Postby hiriskpaul » February 5th, 2021, 5:56 pm

In case anyone is interested in selling, there appears to be someone wanting to buy this in size. I got an online quote to sell 100k nominal just before the close of 127.5 (YTM 4.57%). Could not get a quote to buy at all, other than for the minimum 1k at 128.5.

Personally I am not selling at this price as it still provides a very good return for the risk at 127.5 and I have nowhere better to put the money at present.

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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 - half way mark

#384675

Postby hiriskpaul » February 8th, 2021, 11:17 am

hiriskpaul wrote:In case anyone is interested in selling, there appears to be someone wanting to buy this in size. I got an online quote to sell 100k nominal just before the close of 127.5 (YTM 4.57%). Could not get a quote to buy at all, other than for the minimum 1k at 128.5.

Personally I am not selling at this price as it still provides a very good return for the risk at 127.5 and I have nowhere better to put the money at present.

I am now being offered 128 for up to 250k nominal! This is an online quote.

More available on the other side this morning as well I could get 15k nominal at 128.75.

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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 - half way mark

#384816

Postby Gan020 » February 8th, 2021, 4:52 pm

hiriskpaul wrote:
hiriskpaul wrote:In case anyone is interested in selling, there appears to be someone wanting to buy this in size. I got an online quote to sell 100k nominal just before the close of 127.5 (YTM 4.57%). Could not get a quote to buy at all, other than for the minimum 1k at 128.5.

Personally I am not selling at this price as it still provides a very good return for the risk at 127.5 and I have nowhere better to put the money at present.

I am now being offered 128 for up to 250k nominal! This is an online quote.

More available on the other side this morning as well I could get 15k nominal at 128.75.


This bond has been one of my better decisions and one I too feel comfortable that the yield feels appropriate for the risk, until many others I feel are overpriced/significantly overpriced. I with there were more like this. This hits a nice sweet spot in the yield/risk/maturity equation.

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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 - half way mark

#440374

Postby hiriskpaul » September 7th, 2021, 4:37 pm

I was offered 127.62 for these today in size up to 100k nominal. That's a YTM of just 3.86%. There was a time I would have been out of these like a shot at that yield, but where else am I going to get 3.86% on a 4 year bond of this quality?

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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 - half way mark

#440545

Postby Gan020 » September 8th, 2021, 10:02 am

hiriskpaul wrote:I was offered 127.62 for these today in size up to 100k nominal. That's a YTM of just 3.86%. There was a time I would have been out of these like a shot at that yield, but where else am I going to get 3.86% on a 4 year bond of this quality?


Where indeed? Having not really looked too closely at this for the last couple of months as in my list of things to sell first this would have have been one of the last to go, I was shocked to get a quote to sell at 128.17 for smaller volume a few days ago.

As you say though, I see nothing to switch into of better value. Crazy times.

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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 - half way mark

#440870

Postby Wozzitworthit » September 9th, 2021, 9:30 am

Have just bought a (very) few more 42TF at 4.5p which with Stamp Duty and no trading fee gives a YTM of 4.6% (I think - needs double checking !!)

Woz

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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 - half way mark

#440914

Postby Euro17 » September 9th, 2021, 11:17 am

Woz,

Using XIRR in Excel I get a YTM of 4.72% for 42TF at that price. I have quite a few of these tucked away but have virtually forgotten about them as the spread is normally prohibitively large to trade. I will take another look now you have highlighted the price, thanks !

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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 - half way mark

#440933

Postby Laughton » September 9th, 2021, 12:06 pm

Bear in mind that even small dealing charges can knock a big hole in the IRR when only able to purchase relatively small amounts.
I could only get a quote for 15,000 Notes @ 4.5P earlier this week when I made the IRR a bit less than 3.9%

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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 - half way mark

#440966

Postby Wozzitworthit » September 9th, 2021, 2:10 pm

Laughton - yes you are right.

I rarely buy anything less than £5k in the "Fixed Interest" sphere - this purchase was for 100,000 so was a bit over £4k

I said "very small" as a lot of posters here seem to have a bit more dosh than I do !!

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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 - half way mark

#441242

Postby 88V8 » September 10th, 2021, 12:27 pm

Laughton wrote:Bear in mind that even small dealing charges can knock a big hole in the IRR when only able to purchase relatively small amounts.

Very good point.
Can't trade them online with ii and there's a £50 phone fee :(

No problem with 42TE though.
While I think of it, I'll email and ask why they won't trade 42TF.

V8

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Re: Co-op Group 11% 2025 - half way mark

#441260

Postby Wozzitworthit » September 10th, 2021, 1:47 pm

I purchased mine on line with ii ..!

When I reurned later to see if Icould buy more they weren't available for on line purchasing

I suspect that I had taken up what was immediately on offer - (with EQi I would have had a screen allowing me to then put an order through to the dealers with my highest price I was willing to pay with options for them to fill or kill or to buy as many as they could)


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