Looking at PIBs

[LiviaDrusilla]

Hi
New to this Board, but been investing a while
Looking at PIBs, specifically:

NBSP - hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/n/newcastle-building-society-10.75-pibs
SKIP - hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/s/skipton-building-society-12.875-pibs
LEEDS - hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/l/leeds-building-society-13.375-pibs
NOTP - hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/n/nottingham-building-society-7.875-pibs
(Sorry, I don't have permissions to post whole links)

I know there are risks with PIBs, but are these 4 any riskier than the others ?

[88V8]

Looking at PIBs, specifically:

NBSP - hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/n/newcastle-building-society-10.75-pibs
SKIP - hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/s/skipton-building-society-12.875-pibs
LEEDS - hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/l/leeds-building-society-13.375-pibs
NOTP - hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/n/nottingham-building-society-7.875-pibs

I know there are risks with PIBs, but are these 4 any riskier than the others ?

In a fairly major portfolio reshuffle the last few days I have been buying some FI, but although the PIBS on your list could be regarded as the quality end of the spectrum, as yet yields are only slightly above the mainstream 'safe' Prefs and although I felt some inclination last week, when it came to it, well, at the moment I don't find them compelling.

My funds have been directed towards ELLA, NWBD, BWRA, AV.A, and SMIF and NCYF in the IT sector where I also hold MCT, and AXI which now seems not to have been such a great idea, and BIPS and SHRS both of which are rather highly geared so I'm not presently adding to either of them.

There is also the point for me as an income investor that PIBS coupons are taxed as income rather than the lower dividend rate which attaches to Prefs and most ITs.

I think we are only at the beginning of the mortgage tale that will unwind over the coming months, higher rates, the level of repos and impact on BS finances. I feel it is too early to be jumping in to PIBS, both from the pov of lower SPs to come and indeed possible distress in the sector.

I hold SKIP in reasonable size, and am not selling but won't be adding at the mo.

Just my thoughts.

V8

[Holts]

NOTP 7.875 PIB available at 100.9 currently

[GoSeigen]

Hi
New to this Board, but been investing a while
Looking at PIBs, specifically:

NBSP - hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/n/newcastle-building-society-10.75-pibs
SKIP - hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/s/skipton-building-society-12.875-pibs
LEEDS - hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/l/leeds-building-society-13.375-pibs
NOTP - hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/n/nottingham-building-society-7.875-pibs
(Sorry, I don't have permissions to post whole links)

I know there are risks with PIBs, but are these 4 any riskier than the others ?

[EDIT: Welcome to the Boards LiviaDrusilla]

It's PIBS (Permanent Interest Bearing Shares) by the way, not PIBs or PIB.

PIBS are technically deferred shares which are defined and regulated by specific law governing Building Societies and their capital. Therefore most PIBS have the same base conditions. There can be significant variations though, and the terms of some were altered in the wake of the GFC so it's important to get hold of a copy of the terms and check them yourself if planning to invest.

Beyond the terms risk is related to the issuers themselves: their size, capitalisation, assets, management etc. Generally the bigger and longer established the business the lower the risk. The above are all minnows so probably at the racier end of the PIBS world. The giant is of course Nationwide.

Two other PIBS which I hold are WBS (West Bromwich) and MBSP/MBSR (Manchester). The latter announced last year that they are in merger talks with the much larger Nottingham BS (ref NBSP above); WBS prices have fallen hard with rising gilt yields and they got an extraordinarily downbeat review by one of the regulars here. However I personally think their fall was overdone, especially given excellent half-year results, and I added to my position in the 50s. Their coupon resets periodically based on the 5-year gilt so they carry some intrinsic inflation protection.

GS

[Holts]

To be clear It’s Newcastle NBSP in merger not Nottingham , it was early .

[GoSeigen]

To be clear It’s Newcastle NBSP in merger not Nottingham , it was early .

Thanks correct. Pre-coffee post

[Gan020]

My funds have been directed towards ELLA, NWBD, BWRA, AV.A, and SMIF and NCYF in the IT sector where I also hold MCT, and AXI which now seems not to have been such a great idea, and BIPS and SHRS both of which are rather highly geared so I'm not presently adding to either of them.

V8

My sympathies on AXI because imho the MM's have been messing around for weeks trying to get stock cheap by keeping the spread wide and having a false offer, by which I mean there were very few shares available on the offer.

It was up 6% yesterday which is ridiculous for an bond IT. You can sell 100k within the spread even though the bid rose 5p yesterday.
I suspect the MM's will slowly walk up the offer. It could be very slow though, dependent on how many sellers they get at 85p.