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IPF2 - International Personal Finance 7.75% 14.12.23
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- Lemon Slice
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IPF2 - International Personal Finance 7.75% 14.12.23
I bought a few more of these yesterday. The April trading update seemed decent enough to me.
98p to buy giving around 9% YYM
I was happy enough to park some money here as by Dec 23 it should be clearer what interest rates are doing.
Given the current state of high yield I'm not sure 9% is enough but given the short maturity length I was happy to run with it.
98p to buy giving around 9% YYM
I was happy enough to park some money here as by Dec 23 it should be clearer what interest rates are doing.
Given the current state of high yield I'm not sure 9% is enough but given the short maturity length I was happy to run with it.
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- Lemon Half
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Re: IPF2 - International Personal Finance 7.75% 14.12.23
Gan020 wrote:I bought a few more of these yesterday. 98p to buy giving around 9% YTM.
Given the current state of high yield I'm not sure 9% is enough but given the short maturity length I was happy to run with it.
Yes, at least the maturity puts a floor under it. And the latest coupon arrived a week ago, which is nice.
In terms of parking places though, In a tax-exposed account I'm preferring DEC Diversified Energy, on offer today at c110p for a running yield of >8.5% with W8BEN. I'd be topping up if I didn't already have so many.
O/T for this board of course.
V8
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: IPF2 - International Personal Finance 7.75% 14.12.23
I have a small number of these, bought at issue and did consider buying more, but opted for the Metro Bank 5.5% 2028 instead. For short dated bank bonds, there is also Provident Financial 5.125%, maturing 9/10/23. Quote I had this morning was 98.4625 for 50k nominal, ytm 6.4%. For the nervous I would go for that one over IPF2.
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- 2 Lemon pips
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Re: IPF2 - International Personal Finance 7.75% 14.12.23
I recently started to buy back some 1SBB - if these are called in 2024 , the yield to call works out to be around 7.6%, for a purchase at 94p. Further, as also pointed out elsewhere, even if they are not then a new rate of 4% above 5 year gilt would not be the end of the world.
I have 66WS and IPF2 and am a bit wary of buying more
ICG3 is due in March 2023 but the YTM is curremtly around 3.7% - , better than cash deposits so I may be tempted, if only to spread risk around a bit
LIV2, due in October 2023 currently gives 4.4% YTM
Any other suggestions for stuff maturing in 2023 would be welcome !
Problem is of course, waiting for improved yields is pointless when the cash is sitting elsewhere earning next to nothing.
Woz
I have 66WS and IPF2 and am a bit wary of buying more
ICG3 is due in March 2023 but the YTM is curremtly around 3.7% - , better than cash deposits so I may be tempted, if only to spread risk around a bit
LIV2, due in October 2023 currently gives 4.4% YTM
Any other suggestions for stuff maturing in 2023 would be welcome !
Problem is of course, waiting for improved yields is pointless when the cash is sitting elsewhere earning next to nothing.
Woz
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- Lemon Pip
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Re: IPF2 - International Personal Finance 7.75% 14.12.23
What are everyone's thoughts on 42TE (Co-Op Group, not the bank)?
The coupon is 11%, offered at ~112.5p according to the retail brokers I use and mature in December 2025.
I'm aware of the history with these things back in 2013 when Co-Op unsuccessfully tried to coerce holders of the old Co-Op prefs into taking a haircut. These were issued to replace them - mainly thanks to Mark Taber negotiating a settlement, iirc. They seem to have calmed down quite a lot in the intervening period and they've got less than three years to run.
I know inflation is likely to exceed 9%, but a YTM of around that figure seems reasonable to me as long as they're not treated like a savings account. What am I missing?
The coupon is 11%, offered at ~112.5p according to the retail brokers I use and mature in December 2025.
I'm aware of the history with these things back in 2013 when Co-Op unsuccessfully tried to coerce holders of the old Co-Op prefs into taking a haircut. These were issued to replace them - mainly thanks to Mark Taber negotiating a settlement, iirc. They seem to have calmed down quite a lot in the intervening period and they've got less than three years to run.
I know inflation is likely to exceed 9%, but a YTM of around that figure seems reasonable to me as long as they're not treated like a savings account. What am I missing?
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- Lemon Pip
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Re: IPF2 - International Personal Finance 7.75% 14.12.23
To answer my own question, I've missed that the YTM is actually more like 5.6% rather than the running yield of ~9% Apologies for that wasting everyone's time over that one
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Re: IPF2 - International Personal Finance 7.75% 14.12.23
Ignotus20,
I was going to mention 42TE when I posted above, but I wanted to check my sums as I am getting a YTM of 7.19% and thought that was high for thi particular note.
That is based on
Price of 110.925 (this morning)
2 day settlement
Purchase of 5,000 with dealing costs £12.95
Maturing 20th December 2025
You mention that it has less than threee years to run - I think it has 3 years and just over 5 months ,so maybe one more coupon than you have used in your calculation - or maybe I have got something wrong, as I suspect
Yes, Mark Taber did a splendid job.
I'm watching BOI - not that I want to buy any "perpetuals" at the moment, but it seems to be falling faster than most - maybe when the yiled reaches 8% I might buy a few.
Mind you, they will want to have a go at offloading these at some stage maybe. Last time Loglorry's Dad seemed to scare them off
Woz
I was going to mention 42TE when I posted above, but I wanted to check my sums as I am getting a YTM of 7.19% and thought that was high for thi particular note.
That is based on
Price of 110.925 (this morning)
2 day settlement
Purchase of 5,000 with dealing costs £12.95
Maturing 20th December 2025
You mention that it has less than threee years to run - I think it has 3 years and just over 5 months ,so maybe one more coupon than you have used in your calculation - or maybe I have got something wrong, as I suspect
Yes, Mark Taber did a splendid job.
I'm watching BOI - not that I want to buy any "perpetuals" at the moment, but it seems to be falling faster than most - maybe when the yiled reaches 8% I might buy a few.
Mind you, they will want to have a go at offloading these at some stage maybe. Last time Loglorry's Dad seemed to scare them off
Woz
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: IPF2 - International Personal Finance 7.75% 14.12.23
Att 112.5 I make the YTM 6.8%, at 110.925 it is 7.3%. Not a bad rate really for a 3y 5m investment as these are very safe now. The Group has huge assets, is profitable and no longer has a Bank to blow it up!
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- Lemon Pip
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Re: IPF2 - International Personal Finance 7.75% 14.12.23
Looks like IPF are doing a roadshow to exchange the IPF2 bond into, presumably, something longer.
"IPF has mandated WH Ireland Limited to arrange a series of calls with sterling fixed income investors on 7, 8 and 9 November 2022. An issue of Sterling-denominated retail eligible fixed rate, senior unsecured notes may follow, subject to market conditions. All or part of these notes may be offered in exchange for International Personal Finance plc's existing GBP78,100,000 7.75 per cent. notes due 2023".
The bonds have ticked up a couple of points on the news.
"IPF has mandated WH Ireland Limited to arrange a series of calls with sterling fixed income investors on 7, 8 and 9 November 2022. An issue of Sterling-denominated retail eligible fixed rate, senior unsecured notes may follow, subject to market conditions. All or part of these notes may be offered in exchange for International Personal Finance plc's existing GBP78,100,000 7.75 per cent. notes due 2023".
The bonds have ticked up a couple of points on the news.
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- Lemon Half
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Re: IPF2 - International Personal Finance 7.75% 14.12.23
Surerera wrote:Looks like IPF are doing a roadshow to exchange the IPF2 bond into, presumably, something longer.
The bonds have ticked up a couple of points on the news.
Wonder how much more they''ll have to pay... 9%?
V8
Re: IPF2 - International Personal Finance 7.75% 14.12.23
I picked up my 2023 7.75% bonds in exchange for the previous 2020 6.125% bonds in June 2019. At the time we also got a 1.5% sweetener so here's hoping for similar generosity this time!
Re: IPF2 - International Personal Finance 7.75% 14.12.23
88V8 wrote:Surerera wrote:Looks like IPF are doing a roadshow to exchange the IPF2 bond into, presumably, something longer.
The bonds have ticked up a couple of points on the news.
Wonder how much more they''ll have to pay... 9%?
V8
Looking at the 2025 large (350m) bond quote, think it will need to be well north of 9% to take on the risk the other side of that
https://www.boerse-frankfurt.de/bond/xs ... 9-75-20-25
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- Lemon Half
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Re: IPF2 - International Personal Finance 7.75% 14.12.23
hind wrote:88V8 wrote:Surerera wrote:Looks like IPF are doing a roadshow to exchange the IPF2 bond into, presumably, something longer.
Wonder how much more they''ll have to pay... 9%?
Looking at the 2025 large (350m) bond quote, think it will need to be well north of 9% to take on the risk the other side of that...
Whoohoo double figures here we come....
V8
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Re: IPF2 - International Personal Finance 7.75% 14.12.23
Terms for the exchange offer and new cash offer have been published.
unfortunately I'm not authorised to post links.
International Personal Finance PLC (the "Issuer") announces today an invitation (the "Exchange Offer") to holders of its outstanding 7.75 per cent. notes due 2023 (ISIN: XS1998163148) (the "2023 Notes") to exchange their 2023 Notes for new, retail eligible, fixed rate, senior unsecured sterling denominated 12 per cent. notes due 12 December 2027 (the "ExchangeNew Notes").
Each holder of 2023 Notes whose 2023 Notes are accepted for exchange by the Issuer will receive (i) £100 in nominal amount of Exchange New Notes for each £100 in nominal amount of 2023 Notes validly offered and accepted for exchange by the Issuer; (ii) accrued and unpaid interest on their 2023 Notes in cash from and including the interest payment date in respect of the 2023 Notes immediately preceding the Settlement Date (as defined below) to but excluding the Settlement Date; and (iii) an exchange fee in cash in the amount of £1.50 per £100 in nominal amount of 2023 Notes validly offered and accepted for exchange by the Issuer.
unfortunately I'm not authorised to post links.
International Personal Finance PLC (the "Issuer") announces today an invitation (the "Exchange Offer") to holders of its outstanding 7.75 per cent. notes due 2023 (ISIN: XS1998163148) (the "2023 Notes") to exchange their 2023 Notes for new, retail eligible, fixed rate, senior unsecured sterling denominated 12 per cent. notes due 12 December 2027 (the "ExchangeNew Notes").
Each holder of 2023 Notes whose 2023 Notes are accepted for exchange by the Issuer will receive (i) £100 in nominal amount of Exchange New Notes for each £100 in nominal amount of 2023 Notes validly offered and accepted for exchange by the Issuer; (ii) accrued and unpaid interest on their 2023 Notes in cash from and including the interest payment date in respect of the 2023 Notes immediately preceding the Settlement Date (as defined below) to but excluding the Settlement Date; and (iii) an exchange fee in cash in the amount of £1.50 per £100 in nominal amount of 2023 Notes validly offered and accepted for exchange by the Issuer.
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- Lemon Half
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Re: IPF2 - International Personal Finance 7.75% 14.12.23
goonerbob49 wrote:...Exchange Offer to holders of its outstanding 7.75 per cent. notes due 2023 (ISIN: XS1998163148) (the "2023 Notes") to exchange their 2023 Notes for new, retail eligible, fixed rate, senior unsecured sterling denominated 12 per cent. notes due 12 December 2027
Surprised there's no RNS on IPF2.
V8
Re: IPF2 - International Personal Finance 7.75% 14.12.23
12 % 12 December 2027 and a 1.5% incentive to switch from the 2023s. Offer open until 6 December but I don't think I will need that long to decide!
https://www.londonstockexchange.com/new ... r/15716921
https://www.londonstockexchange.com/new ... r/15716921
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: IPF2 - International Personal Finance 7.75% 14.12.23
The offer does seem exceptionally generous. I am going to have to do some looking at this gift horse.
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Re: IPF2 - International Personal Finance 7.75% 14.12.23
with the 350mio 2025 yielding 18%, i'm gonna pass. 12% is not enough given the large maturity before it.
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- Lemon Half
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Re: IPF2 - International Personal Finance 7.75% 14.12.23
baggio10 wrote:with the 350mio 2025 yielding 18%, i'm gonna pass. 12% is not enough given the large maturity before it.
Good point.
But, the Co is now in better shape.
The higher-interest environment is more benign for lending.
And in 2024 they should be able to roll over that 350mio at lower cost.
So I'm tempted to add.
V8
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- Lemon Half
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Re: IPF2 - International Personal Finance 7.75% 14.12.23
88V8 wrote:So I'm tempted to add.
And I just added 25k at 99.75.
They seem to have moved up a little.
V8
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