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Provident Financial debt has become interesting

Gilts, bonds, and interest-bearing shares
hiriskpaul
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Re: Provident Financial debt has become interesting

#446544

Postby hiriskpaul » September 30th, 2021, 12:06 pm

To add to the cash pile I sold out of LLPE this morning at 112.6 for a yield to call in March 2024 of only 1.36%. I can do better, at lower risk, trading options.

Wozzitworthit
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Re: Provident Financial debt has become interesting

#446602

Postby Wozzitworthit » September 30th, 2021, 2:10 pm

Paul

Thanks very much for that.

Had been watching LLPE mindful of the fact the YTC was slipping ,but hadn't checked for a while

So we have sold out.

Not such a good price as you though - 111.05 for mine and only 10 minutes later 110.05 for my wife

(That between about 1345 and 1400 today - with ii)

Woz

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Re: Provident Financial debt has become interesting

#446662

Postby 88V8 » September 30th, 2021, 4:21 pm

88V8 wrote:
Wozzitworthit wrote:We would appreciate hearing from anyone who can suggest a broker that can enable us to trade these online...

I've just asked Cannacord to confirm that they can trade all the usual suspects online... although they have a minimum £400 fee.

Conversation with Cannacord: They have no online bond trading facility.
And their fees are .... significant, although I'm sure their service is impeccable.
Not for six-figure bit players like me.

In a slightly different direction, Axiom AXI (IT) currently yield 6.4% and are at a discount.

If seeking a brave parking place for cash, there's always RE.B.

V8 (not that brave)

88V8
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Re: Provident Financial debt has become interesting

#446896

Postby 88V8 » October 1st, 2021, 10:55 am

88V8 wrote:In a slightly different direction, Axiom AXI (IT) currently yield 6.4% and are at a discount.

And now ii say they 'cannot' trade AXI online, which I previously bought online in August.

This is getting b ridiculous.
Complaint sent.

V8

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Re: Provident Financial debt has become interesting

#446922

Postby Wozzitworthit » October 1st, 2021, 12:25 pm

Yes

This one is particularly annoying. I think HL still offer it (from reading posts either here or elsewhere, can't recall)

I'm still awaiting a reply from HL .... - I sent them a long list of fixed interest related stuff including AXI

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Re: Provident Financial debt has become interesting

#446965

Postby Laughton » October 1st, 2021, 2:22 pm

Re AXI - a little while ago (I think as an earlier post here piqued my interest) I checked on the iDealing site. AXI wasn't available so I sent iDealing an email asking what the problem was. They apologised and hey presto - AXI was available next day.

If it wasn't "eggs and basket" syndrome and the fact that iDealing always strikes me as one of the minnows then I'd have all of all my portfolios with them.

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Re: Provident Financial debt has become interesting

#447086

Postby 88V8 » October 1st, 2021, 8:18 pm

Wozzitworthit wrote:This one is particularly annoying. I think HL still offer it (from reading posts either here or elsewhere, can't recall).
I'm still awaiting a reply from HL .... - I sent them a long list of fixed interest related stuff including AXI

But AXI is an IT. No accrued to calculate. Perhaps not v liquid.
ii used to trade such stuff on the basis that they 'could not confirm the price until the trade is final' or words to that effect.
Better than not at all.

I withdrew my uninvested cash pile from ii today.

V8

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Re: Provident Financial debt has become interesting

#447103

Postby Wozzitworthit » October 1st, 2021, 10:23 pm

Re AXI - Corrrect, we have a load of them, bought when we were with EQi

Badly written post by me. Should have written that I sent a list of fixed interest related stuff , that normally have accrued to calculate (PIBS,PSBs,Bonds and the like ) and also added a couple of ITs including AXI, that some brokers will not at present permit customers to trade

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Re: Provident Financial debt has become interesting

#447166

Postby 88V8 » October 2nd, 2021, 10:24 am

Wozzitworthit wrote:...added a couple of ITs including AXI, that some brokers will not at present permit customers to trade

At one time us HNWIs got a pass on some of these outliers.
Do you think that has changed?

V8

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Re: Provident Financial debt has become interesting

#447634

Postby Gan020 » October 4th, 2021, 8:49 am

88V8 wrote:
Wozzitworthit wrote:This one is particularly annoying. I think HL still offer it (from reading posts either here or elsewhere, can't recall).
I'm still awaiting a reply from HL .... - I sent them a long list of fixed interest related stuff including AXI

But AXI is an IT. No accrued to calculate. Perhaps not v liquid.
V8


I can confirm AXI is available to trade with HL and AJ Bell. But you will have to take the complex instruments test on your first complex instrument purchase (and then annually?). AXI is considered a complex instrument even thought it is an IT because 95% of AXI's holdings are complex instruments.

As an aside I see the complex instrument test although annoying is worthwhile legislation as I have read far too many posts on mostly other bulletin boards where the posters do not appreciate the risks involved in buying these instruments. The test is more about making you aware than stopping you trading. Passing the complex instruments test would be a breeze for you guys.

88V8
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Re: Provident Financial debt has become interesting

#447669

Postby 88V8 » October 4th, 2021, 10:30 am

Gan020 wrote:
88V8 wrote:
Wozzitworthit wrote:This one is particularly annoying. I think HL still offer it (from reading posts either here or elsewhere, can't recall).
I'm still awaiting a reply from HL .... - I sent them a long list of fixed interest related stuff including AXI

But AXI is an IT. No accrued to calculate. Perhaps not v liquid.V8

I can confirm AXI is available to trade with HL and AJ Bell. But you will have to take the complex instruments test on your first complex instrument purchase (and then annually?). AXI is considered a complex instrument even thought it is an IT because 95% of AXI's holdings are complex instruments.

I just checked my ii account and I already passed the Appropriateness Assessment Test (Complexity test) so that's not the problem.

Looking at HL just now, I see they see that PIBS (and others) can only be traded by phone.

So it seems our past ability to trade this stuff online was a golden era, now for whatever reason, vanished. Pity I didn't know it was a golden era, would have appreciated it more at the time.

V8

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Re: Provident Financial debt has become interesting

#448367

Postby hiriskpaul » October 6th, 2021, 6:49 pm

88V8 wrote:Looking at HL just now, I see they see that PIBS (and others) can only be traded by phone.

No many can still be traded on-line at HL. See my link here: viewtopic.php?f=52&t=28844#p403371

Most retail bonds are still tradeable as well.

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AXI Axiom

#448695

Postby 88V8 » October 8th, 2021, 10:31 am

Gan020 wrote:I can confirm AXI is available to trade with HL and AJ Bell.

Today, ii tell me Axiom have not provided a KID, so not presently available to buy at all.
KIDs seem to have become a bit of an ii obsession.

Last week I received pages of guff about the costs of the various funds I hold.
Well-mean govt meddling no doubt, but firelighters afaic.

V8

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Re: AXI Axiom

#448739

Postby hiriskpaul » October 8th, 2021, 12:47 pm

88V8 wrote:
Gan020 wrote:I can confirm AXI is available to trade with HL and AJ Bell.

Today, ii tell me Axiom have not provided a KID, so not presently available to buy at all.
KIDs seem to have become a bit of an ii obsession.

Last week I received pages of guff about the costs of the various funds I hold.
Well-mean govt meddling no doubt, but firelighters afaic.

V8

HL provide a link to the KID: https://online.hl.co.uk/my-accounts/sec ... ol/BTC2K73

No problems trading at HL either.

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Re: Provident Financial debt has become interesting

#448992

Postby Wozzitworthit » October 9th, 2021, 6:01 pm

In our quest for a new broker, we seem to be homing in to Hargreaves Lansdown

We thought we had closed our accounts with them 5 or 6 years ago but were surprised to find they were still accessible (but completely empty of stock or cash) and after adding the extra security HL now have at the logging in stage, we were able to re-kindle them.

We transferred a load of dosh to one of our non-ISA accounts and carried out some dummy trades - i.e got right through to the real time price and then just let it time out

We were able to get on line quotes for dealing in all of the following (typically about £5k worth)

BOI,1SBB,MBSP,MBSR,CEBB,NOTP,42TE,66WS,AGT1,ALP2,BEL1,BRU2,BUR1,BUR2,BUR3,CAF1,DSCF,ENQ1,GHT2,GSHT,HT02,ICG3, IPF2,LIV1,LIV2,MCP2,PAG3,PFP2,RGL1,DNA2,NWBD,NTEA,RAVP,STAB,RE.B,BWSA,BWRA and ..AXI

INVR and NBSR went straight to a dealer screen where you could (similar to EQi) leave it with them for a day (with various options)

We queried 42TF - they came back to say they are available to trade, however, we couldn't get very far with attempting an on-line purchase - (this was confirmed by Hirskpaul above).

We also queried SBSA - they say we can hold ,but it is telephone dealing only and we will not be able to trade online - but then they added "it is worth noting that it will be availablefor sales only on the platform"

Obviously the above status can change at any time but the coverage seems good enough for us to go ahead with the transfer (99.5% sure as I type this)

Hope this helps anyone else thinking of moving

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Re: Provident Financial debt has become interesting

#474135

Postby hiriskpaul » January 18th, 2022, 4:18 pm

Provident Financial debt is no longer interesting!

Nonetheless, the recent trading statement looks good: https://www.londonstockexchange.com/new ... e/15285593

I have a small position in the remaining retail bond (66WS) 5.125% 09/10/23. Online quotes today to buy/sell 10k nominal were 101.82/100.52 for yields to maturity 4.0%/4.8%. Not very exciting, but in addition to the equity, they have now been underpinned by £200m of Tier 2. So not a bad place to park money for 19 months, for anyone wanting to do that. For me it is top of the list to go when something more interesting comes along.

The equity might make a good punt. They are intending to restore the dividend this year, which often attracts attention. In fact it may already have done, with the ords up 43% over the last 6 months.

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Re: Provident Financial debt has become interesting

#484878

Postby Gan020 » March 7th, 2022, 1:37 pm

I can't say I have much positive to say about Provident Financial, but everyone has their price. The 23's got whacked this morning and I bought a few which I plan to hold until maturity.

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Re: Provident Financial debt has become interesting

#484888

Postby hiriskpaul » March 7th, 2022, 2:13 pm

Gan020 wrote:I can't say I have much positive to say about Provident Financial, but everyone has their price. The 23's got whacked this morning and I bought a few which I plan to hold until maturity.

Thanks for the tip! Ords are up, no RNS. Lots available, so I assume someone wants rid of a large holding for some reason. I picked some up for 96.39. YTM 7.57%. 18 months to maturity and with a bit of luck the return might keep pace with inflation!

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Re: Provident Financial debt has become interesting

#484911

Postby Gan020 » March 7th, 2022, 3:58 pm

I assume just a distressed seller or maybe someone wanted the cash to invest in equities. There were some bargains on the equity front this morning as I write now in late afternoon. Easy with hindsight of course. I got 76.29 :D and happy to park my cash in PFG at that sort of price.

On a more broader theme most of the retail bonds have repriced down a bit over the last 2 weeks and I'm no longer staring at all of them and thinking they are over-priced. Some are, but more are in the area of "appropriately valued" and a few imho now available at prices worth buying.

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Re: Provident Financial debt has become interesting

#488533

Postby Wozzitworthit » March 23rd, 2022, 10:55 am

I have, for me, quite a lot of 66WS but I am sorely tempted to buy more, even at just under a 100p as somewhere to store spare cash whilst the next few months of geopolitical and inflation turmoil settles (assuming it does!)

Anyone feel like talking me out of it?!!

Woz


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