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Investment trusts

Reading price charts which may give you direction in the market using established TA methodology
Avantegarde
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Investment trusts

#387583

Postby Avantegarde » February 17th, 2021, 10:10 pm

Are there any chartists - professional or amateur - who follow investment trusts?

MaraMan
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Re: Investment trusts

#387744

Postby MaraMan » February 18th, 2021, 2:57 pm

I don't know and in fact am very suspicious of chartists generally, however if we suspend disbelief for a moment then would they not only be relevant to any premium or discount that a particular trust enjoyed? Otherwise the chartists would focus their attentions on each underlying holding.

I have probably got this wrong so please ignore if it doesn't make sense.

MM

Arborbridge
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Re: Investment trusts

#387794

Postby Arborbridge » February 18th, 2021, 5:13 pm

MaraMan wrote:I don't know and in fact am very suspicious of chartists generally, however if we suspend disbelief for a moment then would they not only be relevant to any premium or discount that a particular trust enjoyed? Otherwise the chartists would focus their attentions on each underlying holding.

I have probably got this wrong so please ignore if it doesn't make sense.

MM


Is the underlying holding relevant?
I think it's the momentum or otherwise in buying the collective which is important - the price chart tells you what investors believe about the underlying investment, but there is no need to know ny more than that, according to conventional charting wisdom. In the same way, there is no need to know anything about what a single company invests in - only the sum of the sentiments of the investors buying the stock are needed.

Arb.

Newroad
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Re: Investment trusts

#387829

Postby Newroad » February 18th, 2021, 7:14 pm

Hi Avantegarde.

I haven't historically, but I'm (considering at least) using TA now to try and time a couple of switches, most likely

    MYI into MNP

and perhaps later

    WTAN into MNKS

Regards, Newroad

Lootman
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Re: Investment trusts

#387831

Postby Lootman » February 18th, 2021, 7:26 pm

Newroad wrote: I'm (considering at least) using TA now to try and time a couple of switches, most likely

For what it is worth, I find TA to be more useful to help me decide when to make moves, rather than to help me decide which moves to make.

And specifically by "when" I do not so much mean the timing, but rather at what price levels.

I also use charts to determine strike levels for options trades.

That said I have only used charts with individual shares. I suppose there is no reason why they would not also work with funds, but there is an extra layer of complexity in how a fund is priced, especially if the fund is more specialised.

forrado
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Re: Investment trusts

#389539

Postby forrado » February 24th, 2021, 1:42 pm

For those into charting (including ITs) take a look at the Technical Signals page of The Telegraph's Mark Hub at ...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/markets-hub/signals/

Provides a variety of technical signals - though not the accompanying charts - triggered by shares (including ITs) on the London Stock Exchange and Euronext 100 during the most recent trading day.

I tend to be agreement with Lootman, in as much as I find Bollinger Bands a useful means of determining when an IT's share price has been over-bought or over-sold. Speaking personally, over the years I've whittled it down to a point where there is only a mere dozen or so ITs I focus on so, for charting purposes, I've found Yahoo Finance does a reasonable job.

scrumpyjack
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Re: Investment trusts

#389565

Postby scrumpyjack » February 24th, 2021, 2:49 pm

Most trusts can and do buy back their own shares if the discount gets too big, so they manage the share price themselves. So in most cases, other than a small percentage movement, charting is not much use. The best ones, which often go to a premium, issue more shares to keep the SP aligned with NAV.

jackdaww
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Re: Investment trusts

#389568

Postby jackdaww » February 24th, 2021, 2:57 pm

forrado wrote:For those into charting (including ITs) take a look at the Technical Signals page of The Telegraph's Mark Hub at ...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/markets-hub/signals/

Provides a variety of technical signals - though not the accompanying charts - triggered by shares (including ITs) on the London Stock Exchange and Euronext 100 during the most recent trading day.

I tend to be agreement with Lootman, in as much as I find Bollinger Bands a useful means of determining when an IT's share price has been over-bought or over-sold. Speaking personally, over the years I've whittled it down to a point where there is only a mere dozen or so ITs I focus on so, for charting purposes, I've found Yahoo Finance does a reasonable job.


========

would very much like to know your dozen please ?

:D :D

forrado
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Re: Investment trusts

#389663

Postby forrado » February 24th, 2021, 6:11 pm

jackdaww wrote:would very much like to know your dozen please ?

Well thank you Jackdaww for asking but most of them are the usual International & UK mix of equity income paying suspects, being that it’s dividends I rely on to supplement my state and DB pensions. I also have soft spot for private equity ITs, even more so if they periodically hand out surplus cash in the form of income, I hold for example Standard Life Private Equity (SLPE). As things stand, there’s only one IT I own that I'm looking to build on, and that’s Law Debenture (LWDB), but I’m not willing to pay the rerated share price currently being asked.

While some 40% of Law Debenture annual income to shareholders is generated by the trust’s well-established professional services arm, the value investing style of long serving fund manager James Henderson, and his use of gearing, gives the share price an above level of volatility compared to its UK Equity Income peers. Having returned a total of 23.6% for the past 12 months, today’s closing share price of 723p means it’s just 20p shy of breaking through the under (over bought) Bollinger Band, and too rich for me. I’d want the share price to be testing the lower (over sold) Bollinger Band before I’d become interested. In mean time I’ll just sit and bide my time, and let the surplus funds roll up - though, I could well be in for a long wait.

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Re: Investment trusts

#433108

Postby Jam2Day » August 7th, 2021, 12:39 pm

The thing to bear in mind is the underlying market/instrument. I think it is fair to say that IT's are obviously skewed in favour of the retail investor. The professional takes a slightly different approach to buying and selling, and by and large, has a greater influence on the key directional shifts of the market. So, logically, if PI's are piling in/out, one should at least tread with caution. That does not mean the PI is necessarily wrong over time, more that we should always keep an eye on professional activity through price action and the chart can often reflect this.

Newroad
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Re: Investment trusts

#439852

Postby Newroad » September 5th, 2021, 5:09 pm

Hi Lootman.

I should perhaps have looped back on this earlier, but as suggested by us both, there may be some utility in using technical analysis to time switches.

It appears to have worked OK for me over the last best part of a year. I relied predominantly on RRG graphs, but it allowed me to let MYI run up before I swapped it out for MNP and similarly, kept me in WTAN for a good period before I switched that into MWY. If anyone wants to check the record on this, I


Regards, Newroad


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