Global Trust Suggestions

[StOmer]

TMPL (Temple Bar) is an excellent example of a trust (with a strong focus on value stocks) where past under-performance has recently come good and it is currently out-performing many of its peers.

Temple Bar has an annual return over 5 years of 7.96% whilst an iShares Global ETF (SWDA) has one of 12.77%, that's a lot of performance lost whilst you wait for the year Alastair gets it right. Annualised performance over 10 years is 7.88% for TMPL and 11.47% for SWDA. The NAV figures are worse for TMPL but price seems a fair comparison.

That's not to decry active management, but you need to constantly pick the very best managers if you wish to outperform something like a Global ETF.

[Wuffle]

Is there not, at least in theory a corollary to this?
Money leaving the big (like a trillion dollars) techs after a great run and going into smaller stocks (and they will have to be smaller) could lead to certain selective ITs performing strongly.
Not commenting on the likelihood because I am an idiot who has been in cash for some time as a precaution against some personal / family issues where I couldn't deal with both going wrong.
I suppose the counter to my counter is that the growth in passive investing could just keep the tech train rolling.
Wuffle.

[Newroad]

All,

In general, what you need to do, as implied by Chris Dillow in the IC, is work out which periods smalls caps are likely to outperform large caps. If you can, then you go active (e.g. Investment Trusts) during these periods and passive (e.g. ETF's) during the reverse. Yes, I know you can get non-market-weighted ETF's too - but in general, the principle holds.

If you can't or won't, you need to pick one or the other approach and run with it.

Regards, Newroad

[richfool]

TMPL (Temple Bar) is an excellent example of a trust (with a strong focus on value stocks) where past under-performance has recently come good and it is currently out-performing many of its peers.

Temple Bar has an annual return over 5 years of 7.96% whilst an iShares Global ETF (SWDA) has one of 12.77%, that's a lot of performance lost whilst you wait for the year Alastair gets it right. Annualised performance over 10 years is 7.88% for TMPL and 11.47% for SWDA. The NAV figures are worse for TMPL but price seems a fair comparison.

That's not to decry active management, but you need to constantly pick the very best managers if you wish to outperform something like a Global ETF.

StOmer, I'm not sure where you get your figures for Temple Bar from. According to HL the capital growth, i.e. excluding dividend income:
over 5 years is: 19.67%
and over
3 years: 13.31%
1 year: 17.99%
6 months: 13.13%
3 months: 18.97%

My point was that an active IT may well under-perform over some periods whilst it is waiting for its "positions" to come good. A tracker can only track an index.

https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-sear ... -25p-share

[StOmer]

TMPL (Temple Bar) is an excellent example of a trust (with a strong focus on value stocks) where past under-performance has recently come good and it is currently out-performing many of its peers.

Temple Bar has an annual return over 5 years of 7.96% whilst an iShares Global ETF (SWDA) has one of 12.77%, that's a lot of performance lost whilst you wait for the year Alastair gets it right. Annualised performance over 10 years is 7.88% for TMPL and 11.47% for SWDA. The NAV figures are worse for TMPL but price seems a fair comparison.

That's not to decry active management, but you need to constantly pick the very best managers if you wish to outperform something like a Global ETF.

StOmer, I'm not sure where you get your figures for Temple Bar from. According to HL the capital growth, i.e. excluding dividend income:
over 5 years is: 19.67%
and over
3 years: 13.31%
1 year: 17.99%
6 months: 13.13%
3 months: 18.97%

My point was that an active IT may well under-perform over some periods whilst it is waiting for its "positions" to come good. A tracker can only track an index.

https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-sear ... -25p-share

Hi,
Figures came from Morningstar last night, they are annualised returns not capital growth. I agree with you though, I prefer IT's as a rule but am moving to ETF's whilst the unusually low discounts are the norm and gearing mostly remains low across the main IT's.

[Aminatidi]

Well step one is done and I went for Banker/BNKR.

Fundsmith is a harder one as Terry hasn't put a foot wrong in my view and he can't account for currency movements due to Brexit/elections etc.

[richfool]

Well step one is done and I went for Banker/BNKR.

Fundsmith is a harder one as Terry hasn't put a foot wrong in my view and he can't account for currency movements due to Brexit/elections etc.

Ironically, I added Bankers a few weeks ago, and am currently awaiting an opportunity to top it up. I already hold MWY (Mid Wynd) in the same global growth sector.

[OLTB]

Well step one is done and I went for Banker/BNKR.

Fundsmith is a harder one as Terry hasn't put a foot wrong in my view and he can't account for currency movements due to Brexit/elections etc.

Ironically, I added Bankers a few weeks ago, and am currently awaiting an opportunity to top it up. I already hold MWY (Mid Wynd) in the same global growth sector.

Morning all

Just to say that I first dipped my toe into Bankers on 19 July 2017, topped up more heavily on 06 August 2018 and my final top up (a lower amount) was on 09 Nov 2018. I wasn't sure whether to buy Bankers or FCIT, but opted for Bankers (and Caledonia to run alongside on a slightly different investment remit).

I see today that the Bankers holding is up 16.17% in total (the XIRR shows as being 26.91% over this time).

Very happy to keep holding and adding!

Cheers, OLTB.

[Dod101]

I do not know what the answer is for investing in ITs but LTBH seems to me to be the way to go. I held Bankers many years ago and it was a pretty hopeless case. All ITs tend to have good periods and then not so good ones and if you can get your timing right you can do very well, but nowadays, I am afraid I just buy one that has a good middle of the road performance and let it do its thing. There is such a variety of different ITs available these days that I think selecting 'horses for courses' is probably more important than trying to differentiate too much within sectors.

As for selecting a Global Trust, I would probably plump for F & C or Alliance, although Scottish Mortgage has done extremely well, but for how long? There was criticism from Morningstar about the relatively small Finsbury Growth and Income because, nearing £2 billion in assets, it cannot be as 'nimble' as it was. How about SMT with assets of over £8 billion? Mind you FGT also has a very concentrated portfolio. The same could be said of SMT I think with its reliance on a relatively few FAANGS.

Dod

[Lootman]

There was criticism from Morningstar about the relatively small Finsbury Growth and Income because, nearing £2 billion in assets, it cannot be as 'nimble' as it was. How about SMT with assets of over £8 billion? Mind you FGT also has a very concentrated portfolio. The same could be said of SMT I think with its reliance on a relatively few FAANGS.

I don't think it is a problem for SMT because those FAANGs have the biggest market caps on the planet, aside from Aramco. Apple, MicroSoft, Amazon, Google and FaceBook total approaching $5 trillion! SMT is a tiny holder compared with all the index funds that are compelled to hold them.

[Dod101]

Thanks for that perspective Lootman. Not really much chance of SMT ever holding 10% of any of those quoted I am sure. (In case you missed it, there was discussion about just how much of say Schroders and Pearson was held by Lindsell Train and the funds it manages on another thread)

Dod