Global Trust Suggestions

[Aminatidi]

Would people have a view on two from the following list:

* Alliance Trust
* Brunner
* Monks
* Bankers
* F&C Investment Trust

If held alongside:

* Scottish Mortgage
* Scottish American Investment Company
* Mid Wynd

All of the final five held in roughly equal amounts.

I'm confident one choice would be Bankers but am unsure of the second.

The cash to do this would likely be freed up from selling Lindsell Train Global Equity and Fundsmith where the hope is to lose the concentration of those two and not to end up so dependent on the US$.

I'm still accumulating so don't need income hence the global nature.

Happy to have other options recommended, I'm going off the AIC global sector.

[LooseCannon101]

F&C Investment trust is effectively a dozen investment trusts in one share - 450 companies in portfolio, 10% private equity, 10% debt, inflation-busting dividend history, and beats its benchmark - MSCI World Equity Index most years.

The trust is managed by Paul Niven (BMO Global Asset Management) who owns over 150k shares and is CFA qualified, with many years experience managing funds and yet is still under 50 years of age.

The directors place their trust in Paul's ability by owning substantial stakes, particularly Sir Roger Bone (65k shares) and Nicholas Moakes (80k shares).

I am a big fan - it is my only shareholding, held and added to for over 20 years. The AGM is held at the Merchant Taylor Hall in the City of London where the same people can be seen year after year.

[scotia]

As you are probably aware the only one of these five ITs which has kept abreast of the performance of Fundsmith and Lindsell Train Global over the past 5 years is Monks. The others are bunched well below. So, simply on performance, it should probably be Monks - but it is another Baillie Gifford IT, and you already have picked Baillie Gifford Scottish Mortgage and Scottish American
I notice that you probably want to avoid too much USA exposure - which is quite difficult to do in a truly balanced global IT.
Have a look at the percentage of USA investments they hold:-
Vanguard World ETF (VWRL) - to give a relative USA weighting for comparison 53%
Alliance 54%
F&C 52%
Monks 47%
Brunner 44%
Bankers 32%
And the Funds you intend selling:-
Fundsmith 65%
Lindsell Train Global 33%

All statistics from Hargreaves Lansdown (hopefully with no errors in copying the data over)

[Aminatidi]

F&C Investment trust is effectively a dozen investment trusts in one share - 450 companies in portfolio, 10% private equity, 10% debt, inflation-busting dividend history, and beats its benchmark - MSCI World Equity Index most years.

The trust is managed by Paul Niven (BMO Global Asset Management) who owns over 150k shares and is CFA qualified, with many years experience managing funds and yet is still under 50 years of age.

The directors place their trust in Paul's ability by owning substantial stakes, particularly Sir Roger Bone (65k shares) and Nicholas Moakes (80k shares).

I am a big fan - it is my only shareholding, held and added to for over 20 years. The AGM is held at the Merchant Taylor Hall in the City of London where the same people can be seen year after year.

Thank you.

I must admit it's one that seems to have been around forever and have been a solid performer so I'm perhaps not giving it enough consideration.

One of the things I always like is knowing fund managers I'm with have "skin in the game" and sometimes it's difficult to ascertain this so it's good to know Paul Niven has some of his own money invested.

[Lootman]

One of the things I always like is knowing fund managers I'm with have "skin in the game" and sometimes it's difficult to ascertain.

The annual report for every IT I have seen shows the directors' holdings. I'd assume that is required information but if it is not there, then avoid.

[Backache]

One of the things I always like is knowing fund managers I'm with have "skin in the game" and sometimes it's difficult to ascertain.

The annual report for every IT I have seen shows the directors' holdings. I'd assume that is required information but if it is not there, then avoid.

Do they have the managers holdings as well? I don't recall noticing them, though I think they may have to disclose them if you search through the regulatory filings when they make the purchase.

[Backache]

The cash to do this would likely be freed up from selling Lindsell Train Global Equity and Fundsmith where the hope is to lose the concentration of those two and not to end up so dependent on the US$.

If it is the US$ you are concerned about rather than the US stock market, Fundsmith in one of their discussions on their exposure to currencies pointed out that a large proportion of the revenue of the American companies that they hold are earned outwith America and are not related strongly to either the American economy or the US$.
It's worth looking at where the holdings of the IT's do business as well as where they are listed.

[barchid]

I must confess to being a big fan of Brunner, it is my largest single holding and one which, even now, I continue to add to. I first bought some in 2014, attracted by the 20% discount and was always expecting the large holding by Aviva (from Friends Provident) would be disposed of which would add to liquidity and reduce the discount when the big holders overhang was cleared.
I liked the 50/50 UK/Overseas holdings at the time but was more impressed with the overseas holdings than the UK ones, of which I thought 80 odd UK stocks was way too many so I was delighted when the overseas manager took over the entire management and put in a new manager for UK which was pared down to under 30% and US exposure sharply increased, some very expensive old debentures were paid off, rhe divi has increased each year for over 40 years and is well reserved and the management fees were reduced, as has the discount.
In short this trust won't suit everyone but to me it is small enough to be agile, well spread, well run and a buy & hold which I do not have to bother worrying about.

[StOmer]

We hold Brunner which did very well the past couple of years. Aviva sold out of WItan awhile ago and we saw a 7% fall in that trust as a result so perhaps the same thing could happen with Brunner in time. The current discount hasn't quite disappeared but it has narrowed considerably since the manager change to Lucy Macdonald as lead manager, a good old family trust without the 10% premium of RIT Capital Partners.

[Avantegarde]

I have owned Bankers, F&C and Scottish Mortgage for the past six years or so and I am glad I have done so. I'd recommend a buy. But really, why sell Lindsell Train or Fundsmith in their entirety? They have performed even better.

[jackdaww]

F&C Investment trust is effectively a dozen investment trusts in one share - 450 companies in portfolio, 10% private equity, 10% debt, inflation-busting dividend history, and beats its benchmark - MSCI World Equity Index most years.

The trust is managed by Paul Niven (BMO Global Asset Management) who owns over 150k shares and is CFA qualified, with many years experience managing funds and yet is still under 50 years of age.

The directors place their trust in Paul's ability by owning substantial stakes, particularly Sir Roger Bone (65k shares) and Nicholas Moakes (80k shares).

I am a big fan - it is my only shareholding, held and added to for over 20 years. The AGM is held at the Merchant Taylor Hall in the City of London where the same people can be seen year after year.

=================================

can you say what the dozen IT's are please ?

havent BMO taken over this fund quite recently ?

thanks .

[jonesa1]

FCIT is not literally a dozen ITs, rather the portfolio is split between several investment management teams, each of which has a lot of discretion within an allocation strategy determined by the overall fund manager.

[77ss]

......
havent BMO taken over this fund quite recently ? ...

Back in 2014.

I'm a long-term (1994 to date) holder, and it works for me. As part of my investments.

[Aminatidi]

Thank you all, some good ideas and comments

What I'm trying to do is, I guess, seek a unicorn which is get reasonable growth and diversification without being massively dependent on the US.

Bankers and F&C do seem the two obvious candidates given I already have similar amounts in Scottish American and Mid Wynd.

I did find myself looking at HENDERSON INTERNATIONAL INCOME as one option.

Maybe I'm dwelling too much on the "income" part as I'm not investing with a need for income.

[richfool]

Thank you all, some good ideas and comments

What I'm trying to do is, I guess, seek a unicorn which is get reasonable growth and diversification without being massively dependent on the US.

Bankers and F&C do seem the two obvious candidates given I already have similar amounts in Scottish American and Mid Wynd.

I did find myself looking at HENDERSON INTERNATIONAL INCOME as one option.

Maybe I'm dwelling too much on the "income" part as I'm not investing with a need for income.

I hold: JPGI (JP Morgan Global Grth & Inc), MYI and HINT (Henderson International Inc trust) in the global growth & income sector. JPGI subsides income from capital, but gives (me) exposure to growth stocks, rather than the usual income stocks.

In the global growth sector, I hold MWY and recently added Bankers. (Bankers has a slightly higher dividend yield and more UK exposure).

Note that HINT excludes the UK.

[Aminatidi]

I don't know how blinkered I am looking at past returns and trying to compare to the likes of Fundsmith and Lindsell Train when by definition they are nothing like Fundsmith and Lindsell Train i.e. they are much more diversified across companies and (depending on which comparison) geography.

HENDERSON INTERNATIONAL INCOME is one I'll look into more.

Bankers seems a nailed on and I was going to purchase on Friday with the money freed up from selling Lindsell Train but I couldn't get a quote online from HL all day and it wasn't critical enough to do it Friday to warrant phoning them.

[jonesa1]

What I'm trying to do is, I guess, seek a unicorn which is get reasonable growth and diversification without being massively dependent on the US.

FCIT is 55% invested in North America.

[Avantegarde]

I don't know how blinkered I am looking at past returns and trying to compare to the likes of Fundsmith and Lindsell Train when by definition they are nothing like Fundsmith and Lindsell Train i.e. they are much more diversified across companies and (depending on which comparison) geography.

HENDERSON INTERNATIONAL INCOME is one I'll look into more.

Bankers seems a nailed on and I was going to purchase on Friday with the money freed up from selling Lindsell Train but I couldn't get a quote online from HL all day and it wasn't critical enough to do it Friday to warrant phoning them.

I invested in HENDERSON INTERNATIONAL INCOME for a few years and then sold out. The reason was simple. The trust's total return had been worse than that of a (cheaper) world index tracker fund. I have said it before but I'll say it again. If a trust can't beat a relevant, cheap index tracker then why bother investing in the trust at all?

[Aminatidi]

I don't know how blinkered I am looking at past returns and trying to compare to the likes of Fundsmith and Lindsell Train when by definition they are nothing like Fundsmith and Lindsell Train i.e. they are much more diversified across companies and (depending on which comparison) geography.

HENDERSON INTERNATIONAL INCOME is one I'll look into more.

Bankers seems a nailed on and I was going to purchase on Friday with the money freed up from selling Lindsell Train but I couldn't get a quote online from HL all day and it wasn't critical enough to do it Friday to warrant phoning them.

I invested in HENDERSON INTERNATIONAL INCOME for a few years and then sold out. The reason was simple. The trust's total return had been worse than that of a (cheaper) world index tracker fund. I have said it before but I'll say it again. If a trust can't beat a relevant, cheap index tracker then why bother investing in the trust at all?

Yes I noticed that.

I don't know how much you let past performance influence your thoughts on future performance but it certainly doesn't promote positivity.

[richfool]

I don't know how blinkered I am looking at past returns and trying to compare to the likes of Fundsmith and Lindsell Train when by definition they are nothing like Fundsmith and Lindsell Train i.e. they are much more diversified across companies and (depending on which comparison) geography.

HENDERSON INTERNATIONAL INCOME is one I'll look into more.

Bankers seems a nailed on and I was going to purchase on Friday with the money freed up from selling Lindsell Train but I couldn't get a quote online from HL all day and it wasn't critical enough to do it Friday to warrant phoning them.

I invested in HENDERSON INTERNATIONAL INCOME for a few years and then sold out. The reason was simple. The trust's total return had been worse than that of a (cheaper) world index tracker fund. I have said it before but I'll say it again. If a trust can't beat a relevant, cheap index tracker then why bother investing in the trust at all?

Yes I noticed that.

I don't know how much you let past performance influence your thoughts on future performance but it certainly doesn't promote positivity.

Re the comments about HINT under-performing a world index tracker, I am always conscious when those sorts of comments & comparisons are made, that an active IT can take a position anticipating events yet to arise, and which can lead to it under-performing for a period whilst it waits for those events to unfold; whereas a tracker simply tracks.

For example, an active could have increased its exposure to small caps during a period when they under-performed, anticipating a future recovery in that sector.

TMPL (Temple Bar) is an excellent example of a trust (with a strong focus on value stocks) where past under-performance has recently come good and it is currently out-performing many of its peers.