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IT's with exposure to China

Closed-end funds and OEICs
richfool
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IT's with exposure to China

#327870

Postby richfool » July 22nd, 2020, 9:53 am

I am currently pondering how the relationship/spat with China is going to unfold, and how it may affect my Asia Pacific IT holdings.

Of the Asia Pacific income trusts I hold, I note that JAGI (45.8%) and HFEL (32.9%) have the highest exposure to Chinese stocks. JAGI holds a number of the Chinese technology stocks including Tencent and Alibaba, and Ping An Ins, Chinese Resources Land. HFEL holds 3 Chinese banks and a utility.

I don't think that the spat or any boycotting of Chinese products should have any affect on domestically focussed Chinese banks, or on Tencent or Alibaba.

Conversely, I guess the other side of the equation is what action China might take against British companies, e.g. Glaxo and Diageo.

JAGI - JP Morgan Asian Growth & Income trust.
HFEL - Henderson Far East Income trust

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Re: IT's with exposure to China

#327929

Postby richfool » July 22nd, 2020, 1:08 pm

For anyone interested: information on China's economic involvement with the UK, including projects and imports & exports:
How deep are Britain and China's economic ties?

The economic relationship between the UK and China has grown significantly over the past two decades.

In 1999, China was the UK's 26th biggest export market. It now sits in sixth place.

Trade between the two countries hit a record high last year, with large infrastructure projects and education playing major roles.

But as tensions rise between London and Beijing - following the UK government's U-turn on using Huawei telecoms 5G equipment in the country's networks - the ties that have benefited both nations may now be under threat.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53468925

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Re: IT's with exposure to China

#327937

Postby DavidM13 » July 22nd, 2020, 1:32 pm

30th June 2020 China holdings above 10%.


JPMorgan China Growth & Income 94
JPMorgan Asia Growth & Income 45.8
JPMorgan Emerging Markets 39
Fidelity China Special Situations 38.42
Invesco Asia 37.61
Pacific Horizon 37
Asia Dragon 36.15
Henderson Far East Income 33.34
Templeton Emerging Markets 32
Aberdeen New Dawn 31.32
Aberdeen Emerging Markets 29
Witan Pacific 23.32
JPMorgan Global Emerging Markets Income 22.1
Scottish Mortgage 20
Mobius Investment 17.44
Fidelity Asian Values 17.38
Premier Global Infrastructure 13.12
Fundsmith Emerging Equities 12.8

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Re: IT's with exposure to China

#327961

Postby longview » July 22nd, 2020, 3:08 pm

This morning Witan Pacific (WPC) board have announced they are changing investment managers to Baillie Gifford and investment focus to Chinese companies only, to be known as Baillie Gifford China Growth Trust.

RNS Number : 6850T (I can not post a link as new user)


I currently hold this along with a couple of the others mentioned so full change in policy not particulalry welcome here given increased poltical risks.

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Re: IT's with exposure to China

#327968

Postby Dod101 » July 22nd, 2020, 3:27 pm

longview wrote:This morning Witan Pacific (WPC) board have announced they are changing investment managers to Baillie Gifford and investment focus to Chinese companies only, to be known as Baillie Gifford China Growth Trust.

RNS Number : 6850T (I can not post a link as new user)


I currently hold this along with a couple of the others mentioned so full change in policy not particulalry welcome here given increased poltical risks.


If you like the Asia Pacific Region (as you sound as if you do) then this change gives you the best of all worlds. BG is a highly successful investment manager with an office on the spot in Shanghai and I would think it probably will do a good job. OTOH if you want to bail out of what has obviously not been a very good investment judging only by the comments from the Trust itself, then you can take advantage of the proposed tender offer by Witan Pacific. Mind you in line with the way that Baillie Gifford invests, the emphasis will now be on Growth not Income.

I do not think that the political issues will stop successful investment in China. They are being rather a bully and bullies need to be stood up to but I think the long term story of China will remain and they know very well I would think that they cannot cut off their markets in the USA and Europe.

Dod

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Re: IT's with exposure to China

#327978

Postby jonesa1 » July 22nd, 2020, 3:58 pm

DavidM13 wrote:30th June 2020 China holdings above 10%.


JPMorgan China Growth & Income 94
JPMorgan Asia Growth & Income 45.8
JPMorgan Emerging Markets 39
Fidelity China Special Situations 38.42
Invesco Asia 37.61
Pacific Horizon 37
Asia Dragon 36.15
Henderson Far East Income 33.34
Templeton Emerging Markets 32
Aberdeen New Dawn 31.32
Aberdeen Emerging Markets 29
Witan Pacific 23.32
JPMorgan Global Emerging Markets Income 22.1
Scottish Mortgage 20
Mobius Investment 17.44
Fidelity Asian Values 17.38
Premier Global Infrastructure 13.12
Fundsmith Emerging Equities 12.8


What about Schroder Oriental Income? 13.4% China, 23% Hong Kong (based on latest fact sheet)

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Re: IT's with exposure to China

#327986

Postby DavidM13 » July 22nd, 2020, 4:39 pm

jonesa1 wrote:
DavidM13 wrote:30th June 2020 China holdings above 10%.


JPMorgan China Growth & Income 94
JPMorgan Asia Growth & Income 45.8
JPMorgan Emerging Markets 39
Fidelity China Special Situations 38.42
Invesco Asia 37.61
Pacific Horizon 37
Asia Dragon 36.15
Henderson Far East Income 33.34
Templeton Emerging Markets 32
Aberdeen New Dawn 31.32
Aberdeen Emerging Markets 29
Witan Pacific 23.32
JPMorgan Global Emerging Markets Income 22.1
Scottish Mortgage 20
Mobius Investment 17.44
Fidelity Asian Values 17.38
Premier Global Infrastructure 13.12
Fundsmith Emerging Equities 12.8


What about Schroder Oriental Income? 13.4% China, 23% Hong Kong (based on latest fact sheet)


No. The last factsheet as you say was from May. But the data I am quoting is from June where it was 6.34% China and 18.18% Hong Kong.

Find that here https://www.theaic.co.uk/aic/statistics/mir in the GEO file.

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Re: IT's with exposure to China

#327989

Postby digitaria » July 22nd, 2020, 5:04 pm

longview wrote:This morning Witan Pacific (WPC) board have announced they are changing investment managers to Baillie Gifford and investment focus to Chinese companies only, to be known as Baillie Gifford China Growth Trust.

RNS Number : 6850T (I can not post a link as new user)


Ooh - that's interesting - thanks for pointing it out. RNS is here. I am looking for further exposure to the Far East, have quite a lot of HFEL, but would like something more growth-orientated. WPC shares are up significantly today - how much due to the announcement we can only speculate.

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Re: IT's with exposure to China

#327992

Postby baldchap » July 22nd, 2020, 5:16 pm

Don't forget to include the HK holdings are they are increasingly one and the same.

JAGI is over 55% China/HK
I sold JAGI and SOI (only 30% China&HK) recently, but retained HFEL for the income. I may regret keeping over SOI.
My portfolio total China exposure is now 4%, when it was previously 10%, so aim achieved.

A purely political move, as I was more than happy with both IT's previous performance.
I may be wrong but feel there will be a global effort to bring China to heel to some extent.
For balance most of the money went into Global IT's with a higher Asia exposure.

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Re: IT's with exposure to China

#327993

Postby richfool » July 22nd, 2020, 5:32 pm

Some weeks ago, I reduced my holding of SOI, because it had the highest exposure to Hong Kong of the trusts I hold, (as well as some exposure to China). Thus I am looking now at which trusts (in the Asia Pacific income sector) have the highest exposure to China. As mentioned in my OP, JAGI and HFEL have the most. Though upon further reflection, I don't think their particular holdings are going to be contentious.

Noted that SMT has exposure to China, though I don't feel as concerned with global trusts as they are unlikely to have a large proportion invested in any one particular country and the manager also has the scope to vary that percentage, if he feels it appropriate.
Last edited by richfool on July 22nd, 2020, 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: IT's with exposure to China

#327994

Postby Dod101 » July 22nd, 2020, 5:37 pm

baldchap wrote:Don't forget to include the HK holdings are they are increasingly one and the same.

JAGI is over 55% China/HK
I sold JAGI and SOI (only 30% China&HK) recently, but retained HFEL for the income. I may regret keeping over SOI.
My portfolio total China exposure is now 4%, when it was previously 10%, so aim achieved.

A purely political move, as I was more than happy with both IT's previous performance.
I may be wrong but feel there will be a global effort to bring China to heel to some extent.
For balance most of the money went into Global IT's with a higher Asia exposure.


As you say, if you are nervous about China you need to include Hong Kong as well, but what do you expect to happen? China banning foreign investment? Not going to happen.

Sufficient number of investors round the world boycotting Chinese shares? That would be self defeating.

China's economy so badly affected by world trade boycott to substantially affect her economy? Doubt it.

Dod

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Re: IT's with exposure to China

#327999

Postby baldchap » July 22nd, 2020, 6:00 pm

Dod101 wrote:
As you say, if you are nervous about China you need to include Hong Kong as well, but what do you expect to happen? China banning foreign investment? Not going to happen.

Sufficient number of investors round the world boycotting Chinese shares? That would be self defeating.

China's economy so badly affected by world trade boycott to substantially affect her economy? Doubt it.

Dod


All valid opinions, although you have missed out political and internal upheaval in China.
I may be wrong, and don't urge anyone to follow my example, but have come to the conclusion that I am happier with less exposure to what is effectively a dictatorship. There are no truly independent businesses as we understand them in the West.
It is no different from those who decide to invest ethically.
Each to their own, and good luck to all as far is investing goes.

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Re: IT's with exposure to China

#328023

Postby mike » July 22nd, 2020, 7:41 pm

DavidM13 wrote:
jonesa1 wrote:
DavidM13 wrote:30th June 2020 China holdings above 10%.


JPMorgan China Growth & Income 94
JPMorgan Asia Growth & Income 45.8
JPMorgan Emerging Markets 39
Fidelity China Special Situations 38.42
Invesco Asia 37.61
Pacific Horizon 37
Asia Dragon 36.15
Henderson Far East Income 33.34
Templeton Emerging Markets 32
Aberdeen New Dawn 31.32
Aberdeen Emerging Markets 29
Witan Pacific 23.32
JPMorgan Global Emerging Markets Income 22.1
Scottish Mortgage 20
Mobius Investment 17.44
Fidelity Asian Values 17.38
Premier Global Infrastructure 13.12
Fundsmith Emerging Equities 12.8


What about Schroder Oriental Income? 13.4% China, 23% Hong Kong (based on latest fact sheet)


No. The last factsheet as you say was from May. But the data I am quoting is from June where it was 6.34% China and 18.18% Hong Kong.

Find that here https://www.theaic.co.uk/aic/statistics/mir in the GEO file.


Wow, I've just looked at SOI in the linked file, and big change a from the details I last had (note to self - keep more up-to-date !)

- There is now nearly 19% invested in the UK, Cayman Isles, Italy and Ireland.

- A new 13.8% holding in Papua New Guinea

- Singapore dropped completely (was 15.2% last month)

Just wonder if the PNG-Singapore may be an error. It is the only PNG holding in the whole list

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Re: IT's with exposure to China

#328034

Postby Dod101 » July 22nd, 2020, 9:08 pm

baldchap wrote:All valid opinions, although you have missed out political and internal upheaval in China.
I may be wrong, and don't urge anyone to follow my example, but have come to the conclusion that I am happier with less exposure to what is effectively a dictatorship. There are no truly independent businesses as we understand them in the West.
It is no different from those who decide to invest ethically.
Each to their own, and good luck to all as far is investing goes.


I completely understand your stance but there is no political and Internal upheaval in China, at least currently. I doubt that there will be any as long as the citizens are given the opportunity to prosper. They are a pragmatic bunch.

China has of course been a dictatorship since 1949 since there is nothing new there.

The disturbances in Hong Kong are a bit of a puzzle because most of those demonstrating did not even have the benefit of living under the UK's colonial rule and frankly they had no chance of ever succeeding.

Anyway my only exposure to China is I think through Scottish Mortgage and HFEL. I am quite happy with that.

Dod

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Re: IT's with exposure to China

#328042

Postby jonesa1 » July 22nd, 2020, 9:58 pm

DavidM13 wrote:
jonesa1 wrote:What about Schroder Oriental Income? 13.4% China, 23% Hong Kong (based on latest fact sheet)


No. The last factsheet as you say was from May. But the data I am quoting is from June where it was 6.34% China and 18.18% Hong Kong.

Find that here https://www.theaic.co.uk/aic/statistics/mir in the GEO file.


Thanks for clarifying. That's quite a change. Wouldn't most people lump China and HK together, especially now? Together SOI has about 24.5% even after the reduction.

Just compared the May & June MIR data, the change isn't massive, suggesting that the MIR data and the contents of the fact sheet are not consistent. Which do you think should be the more reliable source?

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Re: IT's with exposure to China

#328047

Postby jonesa1 » July 22nd, 2020, 10:09 pm

mike wrote:
Wow, I've just looked at SOI in the linked file, and big change a from the details I last had (note to self - keep more up-to-date !)

- There is now nearly 19% invested in the UK, Cayman Isles, Italy and Ireland.

- A new 13.8% holding in Papua New Guinea

- Singapore dropped completely (was 15.2% last month)

Just wonder if the PNG-Singapore may be an error. It is the only PNG holding in the whole list


In the data I've just looked at, Singapore shows as 13.83% on 30 June and 15.19% on 31 May

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Re: IT's with exposure to China

#328064

Postby mike » July 22nd, 2020, 11:27 pm

jonesa1 wrote:
mike wrote:
Wow, I've just looked at SOI in the linked file, and big change a from the details I last had (note to self - keep more up-to-date !)

- There is now nearly 19% invested in the UK, Cayman Isles, Italy and Ireland.

- A new 13.8% holding in Papua New Guinea

- Singapore dropped completely (was 15.2% last month)

Just wonder if the PNG-Singapore may be an error. It is the only PNG holding in the whole list


In the data I've just looked at, Singapore shows as 13.83% on 30 June and 15.19% on 31 May


I've just followed the link to the MIR files as stated above and it shows

Schroder Oriental Income	Asia Pacific Income	Australia	   9.95	30/06/2020	GB00B0CRWN59
Schroder Oriental Income Asia Pacific Income Cash near Cash 0.98 30/06/2020 GB00B0CRWN59
Schroder Oriental Income Asia Pacific Income Cayman Islands 6.98 30/06/2020 GB00B0CRWN59
Schroder Oriental Income Asia Pacific Income China 6.34 30/06/2020 GB00B0CRWN59
Schroder Oriental Income Asia Pacific Income Hong Kong 18.18 30/06/2020 GB00B0CRWN59
Schroder Oriental Income Asia Pacific Income Ireland 1.83 30/06/2020 GB00B0CRWN59
Schroder Oriental Income Asia Pacific Income Italy 0.77 30/06/2020 GB00B0CRWN59
Schroder Oriental Income Asia Pacific Income Japan 0.73 30/06/2020 GB00B0CRWN59
Schroder Oriental Income Asia Pacific Income New Zealand 0.44 30/06/2020 GB00B0CRWN59
Schroder Oriental Income Asia Pacific Income Papua New Guinea 13.83 30/06/2020 GB00B0CRWN59
Schroder Oriental Income Asia Pacific Income South Korea 9.09 30/06/2020 GB00B0CRWN59
Schroder Oriental Income Asia Pacific Income Taiwan 18.62 30/06/2020 GB00B0CRWN59
Schroder Oriental Income Asia Pacific Income Thailand 3.18 30/06/2020 GB00B0CRWN59
Schroder Oriental Income Asia Pacific Income UK 9.08 30/06/2020 GB00B0CRWN59


Singapore makes more sense - where was your info ? The monthly fact sheet on the SOI site is "unavailable"

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Re: IT's with exposure to China

#328073

Postby Dod101 » July 23rd, 2020, 6:51 am

digitaria wrote:
longview wrote:This morning Witan Pacific (WPC) board have announced they are changing investment managers to Baillie Gifford and investment focus to Chinese companies only, to be known as Baillie Gifford China Growth Trust.

RNS Number : 6850T (I can not post a link as new user)


Ooh - that's interesting - thanks for pointing it out. RNS is here. I am looking for further exposure to the Far East, have quite a lot of HFEL, but would like something more growth-orientated. WPC shares are up significantly today - how much due to the announcement we can only speculate.


You could surely get an idea of whether it is sentiment or the strength of the underlying holdings by looking at the movement in the discount/premium. If the discount has reduced or gone to a premium that would indicate a change in sentiment towards the Trust itself rather than the underlying holdings. I would imagine that that would be the case because surely after some years of disappointing performance under the multi manager approach this action is a positive one. One aspect not mentioned is that it is a bit of a slap in the face for Witan itself which was managing the Trust.

Dod

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Re: IT's with exposure to China

#328108

Postby DavidM13 » July 23rd, 2020, 9:58 am

Hi Chaps,
Sorry I am getting a bit confused on exactly what the question is now regarding singapore, china, Papa NG. Can you let me know clearly what you want me to check in to and I can look to contact the relevant people. Many thanks!! :idea:

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Re: IT's with exposure to China

#328120

Postby mike » July 23rd, 2020, 10:48 am

DavidM13 wrote:Hi Chaps,
Sorry I am getting a bit confused on exactly what the question is now regarding singapore, china, Papa NG. Can you let me know clearly what you want me to check in to and I can look to contact the relevant people. Many thanks!! :idea:



Hi David

Could you check the MIR GEO file for Schroder Oriental Income.

The latest file shows Papua NG at 13.83 %, with nothing for Singapore. I feel that PNG has been substituted for Singapore in error.

Thanks


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