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City Of London (CTY)

Closed-end funds and OEICs
monabri
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City Of London (CTY)

#378436

Postby monabri » January 18th, 2021, 7:42 pm

I remembered reading somewhere that CTY was buying into "foreign" shares. A quick look on their website reveals it's now just over 13% of the portfolio ( percentages calculated in the fourth column).

https://www.janushenderson.com/en-gb/in ... trust-plc/

Image

unperplex
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Re: City Of London (CTY)

#378460

Postby unperplex » January 18th, 2021, 10:10 pm

Thanks for that. Interesting. As a CTY holder (for income) I have been aware their capital growth has not been good in recent years (possibly due to their focus on the ftse100). It is good to see that they might be spreading their net a bit. I see several US stalwarts in your list. Maybe their capital growth will increase.......

88V8
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Re: City Of London (CTY)

#378470

Postby 88V8 » January 18th, 2021, 11:05 pm

Nice collection of blue chips. Wonder what divis they pay.
I guess post-Brexit, more trusts will be paddllng in overseas waters.

V8

Dod101
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Re: City Of London (CTY)

#378472

Postby Dod101 » January 18th, 2021, 11:27 pm

Swire Pacific can only be there for capital appreciation (They own about 45% of Cathay Pacific) Otherwise, if they are serious about income I would suggest that they take a look at Canadian bank shares.

Have they explained what the are about with this rather esoteric collection of overseas shares?

Dod

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Re: City Of London (CTY)

#378513

Postby Parky » January 19th, 2021, 8:42 am

Strange. The "experts" have been saying US shares are overvalued and UK shares undervalued, so the timing of this change does need an explanation.

Arborbridge
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Re: City Of London (CTY)

#378517

Postby Arborbridge » January 19th, 2021, 8:46 am

I'll leave it to the managers - I have my own problems and in general haven't been as clever as they are :?

Still, despite the doubts expressed, the screenshot shows a number of first rate companies so although I will keep and eye on the dividend worry, I'm happy with owning those.

Arb.

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Re: City Of London (CTY)

#378583

Postby airbus330 » January 19th, 2021, 1:01 pm

TBH the fact that it has Swire Grp in it would be a negative to me. I have friends at Cathay and the goings on over there are pretty grim. A bit too close to the regime IMHO.

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Re: City Of London (CTY)

#378626

Postby moorfield » January 19th, 2021, 4:09 pm

monabri wrote:I remembered reading somewhere that CTY was buying into "foreign" shares. A quick look on their website reveals it's now just over 13% of the portfolio ( percentages calculated in the fourth column).


This is not a particularly new development, it has held some of those for years - the portfolio was ~11% in overseas listed companies in 2014, ~14% in 2020, according to its annual reports. I imagine (but speculate) that the Verizon holding came from its original Vodafone holding for example. It's a little frustrating that individual yields aren't quoted in a column on that XLS, otherwise it would be a very handy selection source - hold 15 shares yielding higher than the whole portfolio and one won't go too far awry.

Dod101
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Re: City Of London (CTY)

#378634

Postby Dod101 » January 19th, 2021, 4:28 pm

airbus330 wrote:TBH the fact that it has Swire Grp in it would be a negative to me. I have friends at Cathay and the goings on over there are pretty grim. A bit too close to the regime IMHO.


Hardly surprising that they are 'close to the regime' considering that a Chinese airline, Air China has 29.9% and that Hong Kong is now an SAR of China.

Swire Pacific has never for me been a very good investment, in part because of the fact that it owns 45.5% of Cathay. IT has some profitable divisions but in addition to the disaster of the airline it is also struggling with Swire Pacific Offshore, its oil services company with a fleet of oil service vessels.

They have probably bought on the basis of a strong recovery over the next year or two

Dod

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Re: City Of London (CTY)

#378695

Postby monabri » January 19th, 2021, 7:04 pm

With reference to the 2020 Annual Report

https://cdn.janushenderson.com/webdocs/ ... rt2020.pdf


The reasons behind the selection of the individual foreign ownings don't appear to generally be discussed - other than perhaps by the Chairmans's statement.

The Chairman says

"Job Curtis focuses on companies with cash generative businesses able to grow their dividends with attractive yields.
The portfolio is well diversified, biased towards international companies invested in economies likely to grow faster than
the UK."


"He (the fund manager) will continue to have a bias towards income producing stocks, but he has no need in the current environment to
chase a dwindling group of higher yielding corporates, running the inherent risk of dividend traps, in order to buildon City of London’s unique dividend record. He can continue to focus too on holdings selected for their above average growth potential, albeit on lowish yields, some of which may well be listed overseas..."



Swire, Merck, Nestle, Novartis – I could find no specific reason mentioned in the CTY Annual Report.

Orange & Verizon - "The UK telecommunications sector has been very competitive and with tough regulation for many years. The incumbent, BT, has been struggling and decided to stop paying a dividend. City of London’s holding in BT was sold and reinvested in Deutsche Telekom, Vodafone and Orange."

(Verizon was a top up – focus seems to have been on a growing dividend/dividend record).

Coca-Cola – no specific reason but I see that one of CTY’s directors has listed "Current External Appointments:
General Counsel and Company Secretary of Coca-Cola EuropeanPartners plc, which she joined in May 2016."

FDJ – French National Lottery – Initial tranche bought in Nov 2019 and additional purchases were made in the aftermarket. FDJ is a cash-generative business with a strong balance sheet

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Re: City Of London (CTY)

#378709

Postby Dod101 » January 19th, 2021, 7:43 pm

Mention of Coca Cola reminds me that one of Swire's more successful ventures was when many years ago they bought the Hong Kong bottling franchise for Coca Cola. Swire is now one of Coke's preferred worldwide partners with in addition to HK, most of China and much of the west of the US. They are a conservative outfit and big in HK terms but the trouble is one division does well another will probably falter. I really find it difficult to understand why City of London IT would want to hold it.

Dod

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Re: City Of London (CTY)

#378745

Postby airbus330 » January 19th, 2021, 11:18 pm

Dod101 wrote:Mention of Coca Cola reminds me that one of Swire's more successful ventures was when many years ago they bought the Hong Kong bottling franchise for Coca Cola. Swire is now one of Coke's preferred worldwide partners with in addition to HK, most of China and much of the west of the US. They are a conservative outfit and big in HK terms but the trouble is one division does well another will probably falter. I really find it difficult to understand why City of London IT would want to hold it.

Dod

I agree with you. I suppose this is the sort of decision that JC is paid to make, and hopefully he does it on the basis of better info than I have. I admit my opinion of Swire is very coloured by Cathay. I just am a bit surprised that they have tied themselves up with a company that could easily become an embarrassment. The least damning that can be said is that Swire has no choice but to sup with the devil.

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Re: City Of London (CTY)

#378761

Postby TahiPanasDua » January 20th, 2021, 6:25 am

airbus330 wrote:
Dod101 wrote:Mention of Coca Cola reminds me that one of Swire's more successful ventures was when many years ago they bought the Hong Kong bottling franchise for Coca Cola. Swire is now one of Coke's preferred worldwide partners with in addition to HK, most of China and much of the west of the US. They are a conservative outfit and big in HK terms but the trouble is one division does well another will probably falter. I really find it difficult to understand why City of London IT would want to hold it.

Dod

I agree with you. I suppose this is the sort of decision that JC is paid to make, and hopefully he does it on the basis of better info than I have. I admit my opinion of Swire is very coloured by Cathay. I just am a bit surprised that they have tied themselves up with a company that could easily become an embarrassment. The least damning that can be said is that Swire has no choice but to sup with the devil.


I worked for both Cathay Pacific and Swire Properties and both are well managed. (Well, I would say that, wouldn't I?). However, I have never been tempted to buy Swire shares as, despite being a conglomerate, they are too dependent on just two sectors: Hong Kong property, a mind-boggling exotic arena to my view, and the highly-cyclical airline.

Possibly, City are attracted by a Hong Kong company that is British managed and has a long history of paying 4%-ish dividends. I still have about 17% of my portfolio in Hong Kong in 4 reasonably solid companies such as HSBC. As for Swire, in the current political environment, "include me out" as someone famously said.

TP2.

88V8
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Re: City Of London (CTY)

#390711

Postby 88V8 » February 27th, 2021, 7:50 pm

Latest... novel excuse for underperformance.... City of London has attributed the strong performance of investment trusts listed in the FTSE All-Share Index, particularly Scottish Mortgage SMT, as a reason behind its underperformance over the past six months.

But.... It is confident that despite the challenging backdrop for dividends, it will be able to increase its dividend for a 55th consecutive year.
https://www.lse.co.uk/SharePrice.asp?sh ... Investment

A 55 year moat and a yield exceeding 5%.
Hooray.

V8 (I hold)

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Re: City Of London (CTY)

#390815

Postby richfool » February 28th, 2021, 9:43 am

88V8 wrote:Latest... novel excuse for underperformance.... City of London has attributed the strong performance of investment trusts listed in the FTSE All-Share Index, particularly Scottish Mortgage SMT, as a reason behind its underperformance over the past six months.

But.... It is confident that despite the challenging backdrop for dividends, it will be able to increase its dividend for a 55th consecutive year.
https://www.lse.co.uk/SharePrice.asp?sh ... Investment

A 55 year moat and a yield exceeding 5%.
Hooray.

V8 (I hold)


Talking of moats, there has been some water lapping round the drawbridge based on capital past performance over recent years. ;)

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Re: City Of London (CTY)

#390847

Postby Vince » February 28th, 2021, 11:07 am

richfool wrote:
Talking of moats, there has been some water lapping round the drawbridge based on capital past performance over recent years. ;)


The dividend cover looks low by historical standards but hopefully, its based on a once in a lifetime event that, once the smog of covid recedes, and economies recover, CTY can cover the div. fully from income.

Currently yielding 5.3%, I took the opportunity to increase our holding by 20% last week into the ISA, if the trust can get back to former highs in a year or two, there will be some growth to add to the income.

Vince

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Re: City Of London (CTY)

#390895

Postby richfool » February 28th, 2021, 1:54 pm

Vince wrote:
richfool wrote:
Talking of moats, there has been some water lapping round the drawbridge based on capital past performance over recent years. ;)


The dividend cover looks low by historical standards but hopefully, its based on a once in a lifetime event that, once the smog of covid recedes, and economies recover, CTY can cover the div. fully from income.

Currently yielding 5.3%, I took the opportunity to increase our holding by 20% last week into the ISA, if the trust can get back to former highs in a year or two, there will be some growth to add to the income.

Vince

Noted. My reference to moats may have been more accurate if I had said the drawbridge has been "under water" for most of the past 5 years,- meaning CTY's capital performance has been negative:-

1 week -0.84%
1 month -2.21%
3 months -0.14%
6 months +9.24%
1 year -13.75%
2 years -12.14%
3 years -14.27%
5 years -0.34%

Source: https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-sear ... st-ord-25p

Yes, I can't argue with the dividend yield.

I hold MUT, DIG and FGT in that sector.

swill453
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Re: City Of London (CTY)

#391241

Postby swill453 » March 1st, 2021, 5:15 pm

Just noticed my CTY dividends, which appeared in both my SIPP and ISA at AJBell Youinvest as expected last Friday, have now disappeared from my cash statements.

Anybody else?

Obviously I will check with them tomorrow if it doesn't magically reappear.

Scott.

PhaseThree

Re: City Of London (CTY)

#391242

Postby PhaseThree » March 1st, 2021, 5:20 pm

swill453 wrote:Just noticed my CTY dividends, which appeared in both my SIPP and ISA at AJBell Youinvest as expected last Friday, have now disappeared from my cash statements.

Anybody else?

Obviously I will check with them tomorrow if it doesn't magically reappear.

Scott.


Mine too (also YouInvest) - Very strange

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Re: City Of London (CTY)

#391244

Postby nmdhqbc » March 1st, 2021, 5:22 pm

PhaseThree wrote:
swill453 wrote:Just noticed my CTY dividends, which appeared in both my SIPP and ISA at AJBell Youinvest as expected last Friday, have now disappeared from my cash statements.

Anybody else?

Obviously I will check with them tomorrow if it doesn't magically reappear.

Scott.


Mine too (also YouInvest) - Very strange


not familiar with AJ Bell platform but if it's anything like iWeb maybe it ony shows the current month by default. we're in march now.


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