Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

Suggestions on ITs & passive funds?

Closed-end funds and OEICs
Marky72
Posts: 26
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 9:28 pm
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Suggestions on ITs & passive funds?

#399226

Postby Marky72 » March 26th, 2021, 2:00 pm

Hi guys,

It is really great being a new member of this forum and am overwhelmed by everyone's ideas and thoughts. I have a question about global tracker funds and IT's if you don't mind :) I am wanting to invest in a few funds/trackers/IT's and was wondering which of the following to invest in for 10 years ish. I would put a lump sum in and leave it, then probably top them up a bit more each new tax year re-investing any dividends. What are your thoughts/opinions on these? Can you rank them ? Are there any others you think I should consider in current climate?

* Monks
* VWRL global tracker
* JP Morgan Global Growth and Income Trust (JGGI)
* F&C
* Fundsmith
* Templeton Emerging Markets IT

Looking forward to hearing back from you,

Mark
Moderator Message:
Probably more on-topic here. - Chris

GeoffF100
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4720
Joined: November 14th, 2016, 7:33 pm
Has thanked: 178 times
Been thanked: 1363 times

Re: Suggestions on ITs & passive funds?

#399240

Postby GeoffF100 » March 26th, 2021, 3:03 pm

Marky72 wrote:Hi guys,

It is really great being a new member of this forum and am overwhelmed by everyone's ideas and thoughts. I have a question about global tracker funds and IT's if you don't mind :) I am wanting to invest in a few funds/trackers/IT's and was wondering which of the following to invest in for 10 years ish. I would put a lump sum in and leave it, then probably top them up a bit more each new tax year re-investing any dividends. What are your thoughts/opinions on these? Can you rank them ? Are there any others you think I should consider in current climate?

* Monks
* VWRL global tracker
* JP Morgan Global Growth and Income Trust (JGGI)
* F&C
* Fundsmith
* Templeton Emerging Markets IT

Looking forward to hearing back from you,

Mark

You are not being consistent. It is best to buy trackers because they have the lowest costs/charges and there is no evidence that active fund managers can beat the market expect by chance. VWRL = 0.9*VEVE + 0.1*VFEM, which is cheaper. You can calculate the exact ratio from the proportion of each fund invested in the US.

nmdhqbc
Lemon Slice
Posts: 634
Joined: March 22nd, 2017, 10:17 am
Has thanked: 112 times
Been thanked: 226 times

Re: Suggestions on ITs & passive funds?

#399242

Postby nmdhqbc » March 26th, 2021, 3:09 pm

GeoffF100 wrote:You are not being consistent.


doesn't really explain it. i think geoffF100 means that only one of your list is passive - VWRL. the rest are actively managed yet the title says passive and it's in the passive investing section of the site.
Moderator Message:
Title and location now altered. - Chris

AleisterCrowley
Lemon Half
Posts: 6381
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:35 am
Has thanked: 1880 times
Been thanked: 2026 times

Re: Suggestions on ITs & passive funds?

#399243

Postby AleisterCrowley » March 26th, 2021, 3:16 pm

VWRL is a passive global tracker and (most of?) the rest are actively managed as noted

It's not the only passive global tracker of course, I think there are a few cheaper ones - but VWRL at 0.22% OCF is pretty good

[edit] have a read of this :-)
https://monevator.com/best-global-tracker-funds/

Marky72
Posts: 26
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 9:28 pm
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Suggestions on ITs & passive funds?

#399255

Postby Marky72 » March 26th, 2021, 3:30 pm

AleisterCrowley wrote:VWRL is a passive global tracker and (most of?) the rest are actively managed as noted

It's not the only passive global tracker of course, I think there are a few cheaper ones - but VWRL at 0.22% OCF is pretty good

[edit] have a read of this :-)
https://monevator.com/best-global-tracker-funds/


Sorry, yes that's confusion with the names of funds being a novice investor :? I am definitely going to invest in the Vanguard global tracker. Which ones out of the actively managed funds may be worthwhile in this climate - obviously only thoughts and opinions :) ... I cant seem to find how to alter my original post :roll:

Thanks,

Mark

Marky72
Posts: 26
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 9:28 pm
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Suggestions on ITs & passive funds?

#399257

Postby Marky72 » March 26th, 2021, 3:34 pm

GeoffF100 wrote:
Marky72 wrote:Hi guys,

It is really great being a new member of this forum and am overwhelmed by everyone's ideas and thoughts. I have a question about global tracker funds and IT's if you don't mind :) I am wanting to invest in a few funds/trackers/IT's and was wondering which of the following to invest in for 10 years ish. I would put a lump sum in and leave it, then probably top them up a bit more each new tax year re-investing any dividends. What are your thoughts/opinions on these? Can you rank them ? Are there any others you think I should consider in current climate?

* Monks
* VWRL global tracker
* JP Morgan Global Growth and Income Trust (JGGI)
* F&C
* Fundsmith
* Templeton Emerging Markets IT

Looking forward to hearing back from you,

Mark

You are not being consistent. It is best to buy trackers because they have the lowest costs/charges and there is no evidence that active fund managers can beat the market expect by chance. VWRL = 0.9*VEVE + 0.1*VFEM, which is cheaper. You can calculate the exact ratio from the proportion of each fund invested in the US.


Do trackers generally beat or match IT's and the likes of JGGI which comes with dividends?

AleisterCrowley
Lemon Half
Posts: 6381
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:35 am
Has thanked: 1880 times
Been thanked: 2026 times

Re: Suggestions on ITs & passive funds?

#399261

Postby AleisterCrowley » March 26th, 2021, 3:41 pm

Some actively managed funds beat the index trackers.
The trick is picking the right ones... :)

(Hint: selection based on past performance is generally believed to be no better than random)

You get the dividends either way - they are either paid out or retained in the fund increasing its value
Monevator again;
https://monevator.com/income-units-vers ... ifference/

Marky72
Posts: 26
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 9:28 pm
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Suggestions on ITs & passive funds?

#399265

Postby Marky72 » March 26th, 2021, 3:49 pm

AleisterCrowley wrote:Some actively managed funds beat the index trackers.
The trick is picking the right ones... :)

(Hint: selection based on past performance is generally believed to be no better than random)

You get the dividends either way - they are either paid out or retained in the fund increasing its value
Monevator again;
https://monevator.com/income-units-vers ... ifference/


Many thanks! If I chose to invest 0.9 VEVE + 0.1 VFEM to match Vanguards VWRL tracker, would I simply take out the 2 aforementioned Vanguard trackers and pay less fees overall for the same return?

AleisterCrowley
Lemon Half
Posts: 6381
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:35 am
Has thanked: 1880 times
Been thanked: 2026 times

Re: Suggestions on ITs & passive funds?

#399268

Postby AleisterCrowley » March 26th, 2021, 3:54 pm

Not something I've looked at - best let GeoffF100 answer!
I'm happy with plain old VWRL - don't have a huge amount in it (<10% of net worth) but gradually moving across following my lacklustre share picking exploits over the past 15 years or so... :shock:
There may be a slightly cheaper ways to do it, but I'm not fretting over 0.22% vs 0.19% or whatever

Marky72
Posts: 26
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 9:28 pm
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Suggestions on ITs & passive funds?

#399275

Postby Marky72 » March 26th, 2021, 4:06 pm

AleisterCrowley wrote:Not something I've looked at - best let GeoffF100 answer!
I'm happy with plain old VWRL - don't have a huge amount in it (<10% of net worth) but gradually moving across following my lacklustre share picking exploits over the past 15 years or so... :shock:
There may be a slightly cheaper ways to do it, but I'm not fretting over 0.22% vs 0.19% or whatever


Have you got any of the actively managed funds I mentioned earlier? Do you think its best to just keep to a simple global tracker like the VRWL? Or ... I could get an IT too and just have the 2 :roll:

mc2fool
Lemon Half
Posts: 7812
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:24 am
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 3017 times

Re: Suggestions on ITs & passive funds?

#399281

Postby mc2fool » March 26th, 2021, 4:14 pm

Marky72 wrote:I cant seem to find how to alter my original post :roll:

You can only edit a post for about 10 minutes after you first submit it. During that period a pencil button appears at the top right of the post, along with an X button to delete the post, if you've totally changed you mind about it.

Genghis
Posts: 11
Joined: May 12th, 2020, 12:20 pm
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Suggestions on ITs & passive funds?

#399284

Postby Genghis » March 26th, 2021, 4:22 pm

Putting 90% into VEVE and 10% into VFEM won’t match VWRL exactly.

On my wife’s behalf, I invest in these. Whenever I’m going to invest, I take the FTSE All World fact sheet from the FTSE website and then input the numbers for FTSE EM / FTSE All world to have my VFEM %, with 100- being the VEVE %.

This is still best endeavours to replicate VWRL but of course investing towards the end of the month, say, you’re still using data based on prior month end.

The savings on costs for a large buy and hold portfolio is worth the slight more admin, I think (comparing OCF + transaction costs and the one off spread).

AleisterCrowley
Lemon Half
Posts: 6381
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:35 am
Has thanked: 1880 times
Been thanked: 2026 times

Re: Suggestions on ITs & passive funds?

#399292

Postby AleisterCrowley » March 26th, 2021, 4:40 pm

Marky72 wrote:
AleisterCrowley wrote:Not something I've looked at - best let GeoffF100 answer!
I'm happy with plain old VWRL - don't have a huge amount in it (<10% of net worth) but gradually moving across following my lacklustre share picking exploits over the past 15 years or so... :shock:
There may be a slightly cheaper ways to do it, but I'm not fretting over 0.22% vs 0.19% or whatever


Have you got any of the actively managed funds I mentioned earlier? Do you think its best to just keep to a simple global tracker like the VRWL? Or ... I could get an IT too and just have the 2 :roll:


I don't have any actively managed funds in my ISA*, although I do have SMT and CTY elsewhere (from long ago)
I do have a lot of individual shares .. with hindsight not a great idea. Some are really good performers, and some were Carillion etc :(
I can't give any advice , but will point out that there is a fair amount of evidence to suggest that ( for most people, most of the time) a cheap tracker is the best option.
*slight lie as I just remembered a very small dollop of MAN (Man Group) from years ago, which can be ignored

AleisterCrowley
Lemon Half
Posts: 6381
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:35 am
Has thanked: 1880 times
Been thanked: 2026 times

Re: Suggestions on ITs & passive funds?

#399293

Postby AleisterCrowley » March 26th, 2021, 4:42 pm

Genghis wrote:Putting 90% into VEVE and 10% into VFEM won’t match VWRL exactly.

On my wife’s behalf, I invest in these. Whenever I’m going to invest, I take the FTSE All World fact sheet from the FTSE website and then input the numbers for FTSE EM / FTSE All world to have my VFEM %, with 100- being the VEVE %.

This is still best endeavours to replicate VWRL but of course investing towards the end of the month, say, you’re still using data based on prior month end.

The savings on costs for a large buy and hold portfolio is worth the slight more admin, I think (comparing OCF + transaction costs and the one off spread).


"Thinking aloud" - do you have to rebalance from time to time to track VWRL? It's probably obvious, but it's been a long day...

GeoffF100
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4720
Joined: November 14th, 2016, 7:33 pm
Has thanked: 178 times
Been thanked: 1363 times

Re: Suggestions on ITs & passive funds?

#399300

Postby GeoffF100 » March 26th, 2021, 5:16 pm

Marky72 wrote:
AleisterCrowley wrote:Some actively managed funds beat the index trackers.
The trick is picking the right ones... :)

(Hint: selection based on past performance is generally believed to be no better than random)

You get the dividends either way - they are either paid out or retained in the fund increasing its value
Monevator again;
https://monevator.com/income-units-vers ... ifference/

Many thanks! If I chose to invest 0.9 VEVE + 0.1 VFEM to match Vanguards VWRL tracker, would I simply take out the 2 aforementioned Vanguard trackers and pay less fees overall for the same return?

Yes, you can easily see that from the OCFs for the two funds. The proportion of VWRL will not be exactly 10%. The Vanguard website gives the percentage in each market for each of the three ETFs. You can put these into a spreadsheet to verify that nothing is duplicated or missed out. You can calculate the exact proportion of VFEM from the percentages in the US market for VWRL and VFEM. Once you have set up the right proportion, you can just let them run. There is no need to rebalance. Mostly, I just add to VEVE, but I occasionally calculate how much VFEM I need to achieve market weight, and add to that. I have got a spreadsheet for that.

Genghis
Posts: 11
Joined: May 12th, 2020, 12:20 pm
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Suggestions on ITs & passive funds?

#399314

Postby Genghis » March 26th, 2021, 5:44 pm

AleisterCrowley wrote:
Genghis wrote:Putting 90% into VEVE and 10% into VFEM won’t match VWRL exactly.

On my wife’s behalf, I invest in these. Whenever I’m going to invest, I take the FTSE All World fact sheet from the FTSE website and then input the numbers for FTSE EM / FTSE All world to have my VFEM %, with 100- being the VEVE %.

This is still best endeavours to replicate VWRL but of course investing towards the end of the month, say, you’re still using data based on prior month end.

The savings on costs for a large buy and hold portfolio is worth the slight more admin, I think (comparing OCF + transaction costs and the one off spread).


"Thinking aloud" - do you have to rebalance from time to time to track VWRL? It's probably obvious, but it's been a long day...


The theory is that if I use say the 28 Feb fact sheet and then invest on 28 Feb, then things should be perfectly aligned. However, reality is that the fact sheet takes a few working days to come out and I invest throughout the month. When I don’t invest for a few months, it may be out by a small amount but I’m comfortable with that. No need to rebalance. FTSE all world is exactly FTSE Developed + FTSE Emerging.

kempiejon
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3488
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 10:30 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 1145 times

Re: Suggestions on ITs & passive funds?

#399321

Postby kempiejon » March 26th, 2021, 6:14 pm

I like the global passives, in fact if they were available and knowing what I know now I'd perhaps have bought them over the FTSE100 trackers I started my investing career with.
VWRL the distributing etf gets a fair chunk of traction around here, for an unsheltered investment a good pick to dodge tax and income calculations but there's the less trendy accumulation version VWRP - for a sheltered SIPP/ISA it saves having to re-invest the dividends and is my pick for this year's ISA allowance once we roll into a new tax year. I constructed a global SIPP with a mix of vanguard ETFs for Asia Pacific, emerging markets, Europe, and America, I specifically wanted to avoid UK as I invest in FTSE shares directly.
As for the actives I don't know them.

fisher
Lemon Slice
Posts: 386
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 12:18 pm
Has thanked: 351 times
Been thanked: 200 times

Re: Suggestions on ITs & passive funds?

#399338

Postby fisher » March 26th, 2021, 7:20 pm

I found this article comparing 20 Global Investment Trusts a very interesting read. It is from June 2020.

https://www.itinvestor.co.uk/2020/06/20 ... -compared/

LooseCannon101
Lemon Slice
Posts: 252
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 2:12 pm
Has thanked: 302 times
Been thanked: 147 times

Re: Suggestions on ITs & passive funds?

#399381

Postby LooseCannon101 » March 26th, 2021, 10:11 pm

I am happy having most of my life savings in a single global investment trust - F&C IT (FCIT) which I have held for over 20 years.

The performance has more than matched its benchmark - FTSE All World TR Index. Up to 2013 it had more of a UK bias, but now it has over 50% invested in US equities.

FCIT is dependable and currently out of fashion - hence the widening of the discount. The big news today was that the fund manager was taking out cheap long-term debt (< 3% of assets under management).

AleisterCrowley
Lemon Half
Posts: 6381
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:35 am
Has thanked: 1880 times
Been thanked: 2026 times

Re: Suggestions on ITs & passive funds?

#399387

Postby AleisterCrowley » March 26th, 2021, 10:25 pm

Are you worried about the concentrated risk ?
Genuine question - I have >60% of net worth in various manifestations of Lloyd's (HSDL, Halifax etc)


Return to “Investment Trusts and Unit Trusts”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: doug2500 and 13 guests