Candidates for adding to IT portfolio

[Itsallaguess]

Why should I or anyone else need to Google the term in order to find out what someone is talking about?

Well that's a separate point that I wasn't attempting to answer - all I was trying to demonstrate, in direct reply to your assertion that 'Googling will get me nowhere', is that this is clearly not the case, when I've shown that Googling just the ticker NCYF gets you exactly the information you'd be looking for...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Myfyr]

Googling the EPIC and “share price” works well, e.g. HFEL share price.

[richfool]

so, back at the original topic - what other ITs (Investment Trusts) are folks looking at?

Yes, please. Can the thread please stay on topic.

If others want to argue about EPIC's would they please be so kind as to do so on another thread on an appropriate board.

[MDW1954]

Moderator Message:
No more posts about EPICs/ TIDMs versus full names, please. Posters can post what they want -- TIDMs/ EPICs or full names -- and it's up to the reader to decode. Most readers will know most EPICs/TIDMs anyway.

MDW1954

[csearle]

Moderator Message:
In addition to the above. Quite a few entirely off-topic posts removed. The topic is Candidates for adding to IT portfolio.. Please restrict your responses to this topic to avoid their being removed. Thanks - Chris

[Newroad]

Hi All,

Trying to help this getting back on track, here's a snapshot from II's research area, of the "Debt - Loans & Bonds" sub-sector of IT's, order by Morningstar Rating (something I find useful, but others may not).



I wonder why some of these, including a couple we might be interested in, aren't Morningstar rated? Also, I don't know much about NBMI - the third one down - does anybody else?

In any case, I hope this helps.

Regards, Newroad

[richfool]

This is a link to the "Debt - Loans and Bonds" sector table from Citywire:

https://citywire.co.uk/wealth_manager/i ... ePeriod=12

There are some good dividend yields available, but my concern is, if and when tapering takes place, will the SP of these trusts fall back significantly? Note also the capital performance over 3 and 5 year periods, which for many of the trusts is negative.

[Newroad]

Hi RichFool.

A bit like you, I prefer to consider/compare NAV rather than share price - all things being equal. However, both (presumably, from what you've shown) don't show dividends paid during the period(s) and hence the total return.

Here's a selection below that I'm keeping an eye on (and then, from the above, I adjust for Share Price vs NAV if and as appropriate).


[Source TrustNet - Chris]

This above is, in effect, Total Return.

Regards, Newroad

[Newroad]

PS Answering my own question, NBMI used to trade as NBLS

https://citywire.co.uk/investment-trust-insider/news/anyone-for-monthly-income-nb-fund-pivots-from-floating-rate-to-best-of-credit/a1419273

Regards, Newroad

[monabri]

Hi RichFool.

A bit like you, I prefer to consider/compare NAV rather than share price - all things being equal. However, both (presumably, from what you've shown) don't show dividends paid during the period(s) and hence the total return.

Here's a selection below that I'm keeping an eye on (and then, from the above, I adjust for Share Price vs NAV if and as appropriate).

(Image from above, removed)

This above is, in effect, Total Return.

Regards, Newroad

The figures from HL agree on Total Return as a 2nd check.

https://www.hl.co.uk/funds/fund-discoun ... ion/charts

[absolutezero]

Hi RichFool.

A bit like you, I prefer to consider/compare NAV rather than share price - all things being equal. However, both (presumably, from what you've shown) don't show dividends paid during the period(s) and hence the total return.

Here's a selection below that I'm keeping an eye on (and then, from the above, I adjust for Share Price vs NAV if and as appropriate).

(Image from above, removed)

This above is, in effect, Total Return.

Regards, Newroad

The figures from HL agree on Total Return as a 2nd check.

https://www.hl.co.uk/funds/fund-discoun ... ion/charts

And over 5 years, a Vanguard All World Tracker ETF (VWRL) would have beat the lot by returning 90%, 3 years = 46%, 1 year = 33%...
https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/investments/vanguard-ftse-all-world-ucits-etf-usd-distributing/price-performance

[richfool]

Hi RichFool.

A bit like you, I prefer to consider/compare NAV rather than share price - all things being equal. However, both (presumably, from what you've shown) don't show dividends paid during the period(s) and hence the total return.

Here's a selection below that I'm keeping an eye on (and then, from the above, I adjust for Share Price vs NAV if and as appropriate).

(Image from above, removed)

This above is, in effect, Total Return.

Regards, Newroad

The figures from HL agree on Total Return as a 2nd check.

https://www.hl.co.uk/funds/fund-discoun ... ion/charts

And over 5 years, a Vanguard All World Tracker ETF (VWRL) would have beat the lot by returning 90%, 3 years = 46%, 1 year = 33%...
https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/investments/vanguard-ftse-all-world-ucits-etf-usd-distributing/price-performance

What dividend yield is VWRL paying then?

We are currently looking at high yielding bonds/fixed interest investment trusts (on an Investment trust board), - products that may provide downside protection in the event of a fall in equities due to tapering or a rising of interest rates. You aren't exactly comparing apples with apples. Try comparing VWRL with a global growth IT like SMT ior Monks, but on an appropriate thread/board.

[Newroad]

Indeed, RichFool.

Some people like to hold this kind of Investment Trust for the yield, some as a (partial) diversifier/risk mitigator from an all equity underlying holding, some for other reasons and some for both reasons.

FWIW, I have no axe to grind on AbsoluteZero's slightly out of context suggestion/comparison, as I hold a lot of VWRL as well (roughly twice as much as BIPS &/or HDIV in the SIPPs and ISAs and three times as much in the JISA's).

Regards, Newroad

[absolutezero]

And over 5 years, a Vanguard All World Tracker ETF (VWRL) would have beat the lot by returning 90%, 3 years = 46%, 1 year = 33%...
https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/investments/vanguard-ftse-all-world-ucits-etf-usd-distributing/price-performance

What dividend yield is VWRL paying then?

We are currently looking at high yielding bonds/fixed interest investment trusts (on an Investment trust board), - products that may provide downside protection in the event of a fall in equities due to tapering or a rising of interest rates. You aren't exactly comparing apples with apples. Try comparing VWRL with a global growth IT like SMT ior Monks, but on an appropriate thread/board.

VWRL pays 1.42%

I'm a little puzzled by the obsession with dividends over total return.
You could have had 90% TR in VWRL vs significaly less in any of these ITs (even with dividend)

If a share of value 100p pays out 5p of dividend then the share price drops by 5p on xd day (subject to market movements too) but you still have 100p. It's just 95p of share and 5p of dividend.
You might as well just sell 5% of your shares.

[richfool]

And over 5 years, a Vanguard All World Tracker ETF (VWRL) would have beat the lot by returning 90%, 3 years = 46%, 1 year = 33%...
https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/investments/vanguard-ftse-all-world-ucits-etf-usd-distributing/price-performance

What dividend yield is VWRL paying then?

We are currently looking at high yielding bonds/fixed interest investment trusts (on an Investment trust board), - products that may provide downside protection in the event of a fall in equities due to tapering or a rising of interest rates. You aren't exactly comparing apples with apples. Try comparing VWRL with a global growth IT like SMT ior Monks, but on an appropriate thread/board.

VWRL pays 1.42%

I'm a little puzzled by the obsession with dividends over total return.
You could have had 90% TR in VWRL vs significaly less in any of these ITs (even with dividend)

If a share of value 100p pays out 5p of dividend then the share price drops by 5p on xd day (subject to market movements too) but you still have 100p. It's just 95p of share and 5p of dividend.
You might as well just sell 5% of your shares.

I do appreciate and am in-tune with TR, and generally I invest with that in mind, but in the case of these bond/debt/fixed interest investments I was researching/seeking diversity and particularly risk mitigation (in the event of a fall in equities). I.e. something that might have an inverse relationship with equities. Though currently I am sceptical that if, for example, tapering got under way and/or interest rates rose, that bonds may well fall, as well as equities.

[absolutezero]

What dividend yield is VWRL paying then?

We are currently looking at high yielding bonds/fixed interest investment trusts (on an Investment trust board), - products that may provide downside protection in the event of a fall in equities due to tapering or a rising of interest rates. You aren't exactly comparing apples with apples. Try comparing VWRL with a global growth IT like SMT ior Monks, but on an appropriate thread/board.

VWRL pays 1.42%

I'm a little puzzled by the obsession with dividends over total return.
You could have had 90% TR in VWRL vs significaly less in any of these ITs (even with dividend)

If a share of value 100p pays out 5p of dividend then the share price drops by 5p on xd day (subject to market movements too) but you still have 100p. It's just 95p of share and 5p of dividend.
You might as well just sell 5% of your shares.

I do appreciate and am in-tune with TR, and generally I invest with that in mind, but in the case of these bond/debt/fixed interest investments I was researching/seeking diversity and particularly risk mitigation (in the event of a fall in equities). I.e. something that might have an inverse relationship with equities. Though currently I am sceptical that if, for example, tapering got under way and/or interest rates rose, that bonds may well fall, as well as equities.

How about a gold or commodities ETF?

[Newroad]

Hi AbsoluteZero.

You are preaching to the converted with me on Total Return as a measurement tool - but as I alluded to earlier in this thread, people have different reasons for their choices. In the case of RichFool and me it is mostly about (risk adjusted) Total Return, of sorts, for others, they seem to simply prefer dividend income rather than selling shares/units. There are no doubt other reasons.

There are other threads where you can get into some sort of discussion about risk adjustment options (such as commodities or property) - here's one

https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=30599

and here's another

https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=29954

but they are more likely in the Portfolio Management and Review area.

Regards, Newroad

[richfool]

VWRL pays 1.42%

I'm a little puzzled by the obsession with dividends over total return.
You could have had 90% TR in VWRL vs significaly less in any of these ITs (even with dividend)

If a share of value 100p pays out 5p of dividend then the share price drops by 5p on xd day (subject to market movements too) but you still have 100p. It's just 95p of share and 5p of dividend.
You might as well just sell 5% of your shares.

I do appreciate and am in-tune with TR, and generally I invest with that in mind, but in the case of these bond/debt/fixed interest investments I was researching/seeking diversity and particularly risk mitigation (in the event of a fall in equities). I.e. something that might have an inverse relationship with equities. Though currently I am sceptical that if, for example, tapering got under way and/or interest rates rose, that bonds may well fall, as well as equities.

How about a gold or commodities ETF?

Yep, got some of both. Gold through POLYmetal, oh and PNL (Personal Assets trust), and commodities through (here we go again, those pesky names): BRWM- Blackrock Mining, BERI (Blackrock Energy & Resources trust and CYN - CQS Natural Resources trust.

But, it was bonds I was asking about, as a possible risk mitigator and particularly if they have an inverse relationship with equities in the event of a market crash.

That said, I don't hold any bonds currently, other than where they may be held within another IT, such as MATE (JP Morgan Multi Asset trust), as I am not sure whether they will do that job, or whether I would be facing a fall in their SP's if tapering started or interest rates rose.