Transfer £25k FTSE ASX Tracker ISA?

[portmoon]

I'd be grateful for any advice

I have £25k in a "L&G UK Index Trust I Inc" FTSE ASX Tracker ISA with Aegon.

They are charging me

0.7% pa for the first £10k
0.35% pa for the next £10k
0.25% pa for anything after that

Which is working out at about £9.50 per month.

I see that Hargreaves Landsdown have the L&G FTSE ASX Tracker and only seem to be charging 0.1% although I'm not sure if this is available as an ISA
https://www.hl.co.uk/funds/fund-discoun ... cumulation

This is going to sound like a stupid question, but if it is available as an ISA, and I transfer my £25k worth of shares from Aegon to Hargreaves Lansdown, will I be getting the shares at the price I paid for them when I bought them (between March and October this year), or will I be re-purchasing them at the price they are now (i.e. quite a bit higher?)

Thanks!

[AleisterCrowley]

There has to be a cheaper way to own a FTSE All-Share tracker
Vanguard in an HSDL account? From memory the vanguard trackers have an OCF of <0.1% pa

(and you can't as far as I know, transfer shares between ISAs -it's the cash that moves)

[daveh]

There has to be a cheaper way to own a FTSE All-Share tracker
Vanguard in an HSDL account? From memory the vanguard trackers have an OCF of <0.1% pa

(and you can't as far as I know, transfer shares between ISAs -it's the cash that moves)

Yes you can, I moved AV. Shares from Barclays to HSDL in specie a couple of years ago.

[AleisterCrowley]

Fair enough - some don't allow it
Probably not worth doing in this case as I doubt the L&G OCF is competitive compared to , for example, Vanguard???
Just thinking aloud

[nmdhqbc]

I see that Hargreaves Landsdown have the L&G FTSE ASX Tracker and only seem to be charging 0.1% although I'm not sure if this is available as an ISA
https://www.hl.co.uk/funds/fund-discoun ... cumulation

L&G charge 0.1% but HL have negotiated a discount with them lowering that charge to 0.04%. Wonderful aren't they? Oh and then they charge 0.45% themsleves making the total charge 0.49%. See HL charges below...
https://www.hl.co.uk/investment-service ... nd-charges

There's much cheaper ways of holding a UK tracker. I prefer iWeb. £25 opening fee then £5 per trade.

[AleisterCrowley]

There's a good summary on Monevator
https://monevator.com/compare-uk-cheape ... e-brokers/
I'm quite happy with my Halifax flat rate £12.50 per year. Same charge to deal but cheap dealing days once a month (typically)

[nmdhqbc]

There's a good summary on Monevator
https://monevator.com/compare-uk-cheape ... e-brokers/
I'm quite happy with my Halifax flat rate £12.50 per year. Same charge to deal but cheap dealing days once a month (typically)

iWeb info is incorrect there. So check them all from the horses mouth I would suggest.
https://www.iweb-sharedealing.co.uk/charges.html

[Alaric]

This is going to sound like a stupid question, but if it is available as an ISA, and I transfer my £25k worth of shares from Aegon to Hargreaves Lansdown, will I be getting the shares at the price I paid for them when I bought them (between March and October this year), or will I be re-purchasing them at the price they are now (i.e. quite a bit higher?)

I would think the transfer could or would be done in specie, which means that if you held 10,000 units at Aegon, you get 10,000 units at Hargreaves. As others have commented, there are likely to be cheaper options than either. Do you ever add to your holding? If so, then dealing costs come into consideration. Those Brokers like Aegon and Hargreaves that charge as a percent of fund will usually deal in OEICs for nothing. Vice versa is often true as well.

[nmdhqbc]

iWeb info is incorrect there. So check them all from the horses mouth I would suggest.
https://www.iweb-sharedealing.co.uk/charges.html

correction - it's actually forward looking. That opening fee of £100 is from Jan 2021.

[AleisterCrowley]

iWeb is just a 'no bells and whistles' front end for the HSDL platform from memory

I'd be inclined (and I'm not an IFA) to open an HSDL or iWeb (Hurry!- save £75) account and get the investment in there pronto

Pretty sure you can get a FTSE all share tracker with very low charges. HSBC and Vanguard are usually very competitive but take ten minutes to look at a few comparison tables

[mc2fool]

I have £25k in a "L&G UK Index Trust I Inc" FTSE ASX Tracker ISA with Aegon.

They are charging me

0.7% pa for the first £10k
0.35% pa for the next £10k
0.25% pa for anything after that

Which is working out at about £9.50 per month.

I see that Hargreaves Landsdown have the L&G FTSE ASX Tracker and only seem to be charging 0.1% although I'm not sure if this is available as an ISA
https://www.hl.co.uk/funds/fund-discoun ... cumulation

Two issues:

Firstly, you are comparing two different costs. The "They are charging me" list you give is Aegon's platform fee structure. The 0.1% by HL you refer to is the fund fee, and applies wherever you hold the fund (although some platforms may have negotiated a discount.)

The platform fee is paid directly by you in hard cash, while the fund fee is taken "invisibly" out of the performance of the fund. HL's platform fee is 0.45%, which on £25k is £112.50, or £9.375 per month.

Secondly, you are looking at different classes of the fund. The one you are currently holding, L&G UK Index Trust I Inc, is the Class I income units. The one your HL link links to is the Class C accumulation units. HL don't appear to offer the I Inc class, so you wouldn't be able to transfer those in specie to them.

IWeb OTOH does: https://www.markets.iweb-sharedealing.co.uk/funds-centre/fund-supermarket/detail/GB00B0CNGM05

[portmoon]

Thanks all for your very helpful replies!

[tikunetih]

correction - it's actually forward looking. That opening fee of £100 is from Jan 2021.

NB Somewhat OT

Interesting to see the above. From what I remember, IWeb vary this a/c opening fee up and down over time. It's been £100 before, £25 currently, £100 again in the new year...

Question:
I know someone who wants an IWeb ISA a/c, and would prefer to pay £25 opening fee than £100, but they've already subscribed to another ISA a/c elsewhere this tax year.

As I understand it, it would be OK for them to open another ISA account in this tax year, so long as no subscriptions are made to it during the current tax year (although transfers could be performed into it).

Am I correct here?

[yorkshirelad1]

I'd be grateful for any advice


This is going to sound like a stupid question, but if it is available as an ISA, and I transfer my £25k worth of shares from Aegon to Hargreaves Lansdown, will I be getting the shares at the price I paid for them when I bought them (between March and October this year), or will I be re-purchasing them at the price they are now (i.e. quite a bit higher?)

HL will accept incoming transfers into an ISA "in specie" (in shares); your existing/outgoing ISA provider may have conditions on how it offers transfers out (and/or charges!): you will need to check your T&Cs. If transfered in specie, there is no buy/sell for the transfer between ISA providers, it's just a transfer, so the purchase cost is maintained.
HL often offer "cash back" incentives for transfer in
Be careful with the transfer: you do not do the transfer yourself, you apply to your new ISA provider, and ask them to action the transfer. Do not try to move the shares yourself by cashing out or you may forfeit the ISA'd status of the funds.

[mc2fool]

Interesting to see the above. From what I remember, IWeb vary this a/c opening fee up and down over time. It's been £100 before, £25 currently, £100 again in the new year...

Question:
I know someone who wants an IWeb ISA a/c, and would prefer to pay £25 opening fee than £100, but they've already subscribed to another ISA a/c elsewhere this tax year.

As I understand it, it would be OK for them to open another ISA account in this tax year, so long as no subscriptions are made to it during the current tax year (although transfers could be performed into it).

Am I correct here?

I don't think the IWeb account opening fee has been £100 before -- last time they raised it it was £200!

In regards to the ISA question, I think you are correct, however I believe they could only transfer in "old" money/investments and not anything from or as a result of the current year's subscriptions from the other ISA.

In any case, do note that the £25 soon to be £100 account opening fee is a one-off for opening their first account with IWeb, not for an ISA per se. So, they could just open a Share Dealing a/c ASAP, paying the £25 opening fee, and then add an ISA with them later at their leisure at no extra cost.

[tikunetih]

In regards to the ISA question, I think you are correct, however I believe they could only transfer in "old" money/investments and not anything from or as a result of the current year's subscriptions from the other ISA.

In any case, do note that the £25 soon to be £100 account opening fee is a one-off for opening their first account with IWeb, not for an ISA per se. So, they could just open a Share Dealing a/c ASAP, paying the £25 opening fee, and then add an ISA with them later at their leisure at no extra cost.

Did a bit of digging and HMRC docos aren't explicit on the above, and do indicate that an ISA isn't actually opened until it has been subscribed to ( https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-to-open ... sa-manager ):

Before a manager can open an ISA that an investor has applied for, they must hold all of the following:

a valid application, which he has accepted (see signature)
a valid ISA subscription
the date on which the ISA manager accepts the application form
the date on which the subscription is made (see date of subscription)

...while somewhere else I found a worked example from HMRC that kinda contradicted that. I just don't think they've worded some of this stuff that well, considering that the key objective is simply to ensure people don't subscribe more money than permitted.

Anyway, I spoke to IWeb and was told they're fine with what I proposed in my OP, so at least they're adult about it, and I'll let my person know.

On the vague chance they encounter any issues, then useful to know the above about the opening fee being for someone's first IWeb a/c generally, so a workaround available anyway should it be needed.

[mc2fool]

In regards to the ISA question, I think you are correct, however I believe they could only transfer in "old" money/investments and not anything from or as a result of the current year's subscriptions from the other ISA.

...the key objective is simply to ensure people don't subscribe more money than permitted.

Arghh...sorry, I was in a hurry and misremembered the second part of that.

It's not just about the amount of money subscribed but also the limit of doing so to just one ISA. You can't open two S&S ISAs in the same year and subscribe £10K to each.

Now, what I should have said is that if you are transferring between ISAs, while you can transfer "old" money/investments as you like (none, some or all) you can only transfer anything from or as a result of the current year's subscriptions in its entirety. So, if you subscribed £20K to ISA A and invested it all in an ETF, and then opened ISA B in the same year, you couldn't transfer half of the ETF holding from A to B as that would be like subscribing £10K to each. You'd have to transfer all or none of the holding.

"If you want to transfer money you’ve invested in an ISA during the current year, you must transfer all of it." https://www.gov.uk/individual-savings-accounts/transferring-your-isa

[tikunetih]

In regards to the ISA question, I think you are correct, however I believe they could only transfer in "old" money/investments and not anything from or as a result of the current year's subscriptions from the other ISA.

...the key objective is simply to ensure people don't subscribe more money than permitted.

Arghh...sorry, I was in a hurry and misremembered the second part of that.

It's not just about the amount of money subscribed but also the limit of doing so to just one ISA. You can't open two S&S ISAs in the same year and subscribe £10K to each.

Now, what I should have said is that if you are transferring between ISAs, while you can transfer "old" money/investments as you like (none, some or all) you can only transfer anything from or as a result of the current year's subscriptions in its entirety. So, if you subscribed £20K to ISA A and invested it all in an ETF, and then opened ISA B in the same year, you couldn't transfer half of the ETF holding from A to B as that would be like subscribing £10K to each. You'd have to transfer all or none of the holding.

"If you want to transfer money you’ve invested in an ISA during the current year, you must transfer all of it." https://www.gov.uk/individual-savings-accounts/transferring-your-isa

mc2, we're a bit at cross-purposes here (BBs for you) as I'm very familiar with the ISA rules - I sometimes wonder if in the UK I'm the person who's performed more investment ISA (partial) transfers than any other PI - somewhere in the 35-50 range I believe!*

My earlier point stands re the "key objective" being to ensure subscription limits are not exceeded, as I suspect the one-per-year subscription rule was primarily aimed at simplifying implementation/enforcement of the annual subscription £ limit, as it's not otherwise obvious why you'd have such a restriction. That's guesswork, mind you; only someone in HMRC etc who originally cooked it all up could confirm that.


*Indeed, I suspect I've already performed what I asked about here - opening an ISA without subscribing any money (because I've already subscribed money into one elsewhere) solely in order to enable a transfer-in of holdings into the new provider from another one. I vaguely seem to recall convos with someone at a broker about the "Declaration" text not quite fitting the scenario.

Thanks for your help.

[mc2fool]

mc2, we're a bit at cross-purposes here (BBs for you) ...

... I've already performed what I asked about here - opening an ISA without subscribing any money (because I've already subscribed money into one elsewhere) solely in order to enable a transfer-in of holdings into the new provider from another one.

Yes, I have too and as I thought we were in agreement on that part I was just putting out clarification on the other part, being what can be transferred....

[swill453]

*Indeed, I suspect I've already performed what I asked about here - opening an ISA without subscribing any money (because I've already subscribed money into one elsewhere) solely in order to enable a transfer-in of holdings into the new provider from another one. I vaguely seem to recall convos with someone at a broker about the "Declaration" text not quite fitting the scenario.

Yes it's very typical for a provider's application form to ask you to assert you haven't opened another ISA this year, when the rules actually state you can only subscribe to one ISA per year.

"Subscribe to" in this context meaning "add new money to".

Scott.