End of year values

[bonrepos]

For all those holders of HFEL shares who need cheering up, I have just worked out that using the
current dividend declared it will take until the November 2023 dividend payment for my HFEL
investment to break even!

[Dod101]

JLEN?

If so then it shows the hazard of using these EPICS. For the benefit of richfool, I was not trying to be clever. Not that I recognise JLEN anyway.

Dod

[richfool]

No LGEN (or Legal & General for Dods benefit). Though I thought he would know that one, as he holds it.

LGEN and POLY (POLYMETAL) are 2 stocks I hold in my predominantly IT portfolio. I also hold REIT's and a couple of investment companies like PHP and RICA. My REIT's include EPIC.

POLY (gold miner) is one for enhanced income, and possibly ASEI - (ABERDEEN STANDARD EQUITY INCOME.

[Arborbridge]

On the subject of HFEL, I sold out some years ago, as I didn't like HFEL's higher yield apparently being at the expense of poorer capital performance. I preferred its peers for their lower yield, but superior capital growth performance. (I vaguely recollect that at that time it also had a higher exposure to China which I wasn't keen on).

However after increasing my portfolio's exposure to growth through 2020-2021, in 2021 I gradually moved the emphasis back towards income. Following on from that, I did, ironically, more recently, buy a small amount of HFEL again, as a sort of "income enhancer", one where I wouldn't worry so much about the capital element. I also liked HFEL's exposure to Australia (and Vietnam - small amount) and it's reduced exposure to China (c 11%). So HFEL sits with the likes of (REIT) EPIC and LGEN in my IT portfolio, as income enhancers/boosters.

I had not thought to compare HFEL with say Legal & General. Interesting if you look purely at the income. However, the yield on HFEL was more or less absorbed by its loss of capital, whereas with L & G the trailing yield was 5.99% and the capital gain on the share price was 11.76%, a total return of nearly 18%, not spectacular but quite acceptable to me for such a steady performer. And of course LGEN should not be sitting in your IT portfolio, if, that is you mean Legal & General by LGEN.

Dod

Interesting if you look purely at the income. However, the yield on HFEL was more or less absorbed by its loss of capital,

That's only true if one is rash enough to crystallise any theoretical "loss" now. Until that happens, you only have the income. If and until, one is not winding up one's affairs, it is only a theoretical snapshot.

This is why HYPers are sanguine bout capital values: they don't matter where the holding term is eternal /indefinite. I'd also point out that a single share is generally more of a risk than a collective, so "luck" with one choice of share can easily be offset in some other case one holds.

Arb.

[dealtn]

On the subject of HFEL, I sold out some years ago, as I didn't like HFEL's higher yield apparently being at the expense of poorer capital performance. I preferred its peers for their lower yield, but superior capital growth performance. (I vaguely recollect that at that time it also had a higher exposure to China which I wasn't keen on).

However after increasing my portfolio's exposure to growth through 2020-2021, in 2021 I gradually moved the emphasis back towards income. Following on from that, I did, ironically, more recently, buy a small amount of HFEL again, as a sort of "income enhancer", one where I wouldn't worry so much about the capital element. I also liked HFEL's exposure to Australia (and Vietnam - small amount) and it's reduced exposure to China (c 11%). So HFEL sits with the likes of (REIT) EPIC and LGEN in my IT portfolio, as income enhancers/boosters.

I had not thought to compare HFEL with say Legal & General. Interesting if you look purely at the income. However, the yield on HFEL was more or less absorbed by its loss of capital, whereas with L & G the trailing yield was 5.99% and the capital gain on the share price was 11.76%, a total return of nearly 18%, not spectacular but quite acceptable to me for such a steady performer. And of course LGEN should not be sitting in your IT portfolio, if, that is you mean Legal & General by LGEN.

Dod

Interesting if you look purely at the income. However, the yield on HFEL was more or less absorbed by its loss of capital,

That's only true if one is rash enough to crystallise any theoretical "loss" now.

No, that loss (or gain when opposite) is real, whether you choose to crystalise it or not and whether your time horizon is minutes, or infinite. Any other view suffers from delusion.

[richfool]

I had not thought to compare HFEL with say Legal & General. Interesting if you look purely at the income. However, the yield on HFEL was more or less absorbed by its loss of capital, whereas with L & G the trailing yield was 5.99% and the capital gain on the share price was 11.76%, a total return of nearly 18%, not spectacular but quite acceptable to me for such a steady performer. And of course LGEN should not be sitting in your IT portfolio, if, that is you mean Legal & General by LGEN.

Dod

Interesting if you look purely at the income. However, the yield on HFEL was more or less absorbed by its loss of capital,

That's only true if one is rash enough to crystallise any theoretical "loss" now.

No, that loss (or gain when opposite) is real, whether you choose to crystalise it or not and whether your time horizon is minutes, or infinite. Any other view suffers from delusion.

Currently, there isn't a loss to crystalise or not, as my holding of HFEL was only bought relatively recently, (in November @295p). It's only showing at -1.50% on paper. (Current SP 294p/296p). Most of that is probably the wider spread when markets closed for the bank holiday.

For what it's worth, my holding of LGEN is +5%. Polymetal is however under water at -15%. However these holdings are held for different purposes. Polymetal as a substitute for gold and more for insurance purposes. LGEN as a long term dividend payer, and HFEL, as mentioned previously, bought when already significantly down, as an income booster and diversification.

[Arborbridge]

I had not thought to compare HFEL with say Legal & General. Interesting if you look purely at the income. However, the yield on HFEL was more or less absorbed by its loss of capital, whereas with L & G the trailing yield was 5.99% and the capital gain on the share price was 11.76%, a total return of nearly 18%, not spectacular but quite acceptable to me for such a steady performer. And of course LGEN should not be sitting in your IT portfolio, if, that is you mean Legal & General by LGEN.

Dod

Interesting if you look purely at the income. However, the yield on HFEL was more or less absorbed by its loss of capital,

That's only true if one is rash enough to crystallise any theoretical "loss" now.

No, that loss (or gain when opposite) is real, whether you choose to crystalise it or not and whether your time horizon is minutes, or infinite. Any other view suffers from delusion.

Entirely how one does the accounting and how relevant it is. Minute by minute? Any offers?

The point is, whatever the theoretical position, it is irrelevant until you sell or are assessing one's wealth for some other reason.

[dealtn]

Interesting if you look purely at the income. However, the yield on HFEL was more or less absorbed by its loss of capital,

That's only true if one is rash enough to crystallise any theoretical "loss" now.

No, that loss (or gain when opposite) is real, whether you choose to crystalise it or not and whether your time horizon is minutes, or infinite. Any other view suffers from delusion.

Entirely how one does the accounting and how relevant it is. Minute by minute? Any offers?

The point is, whatever the theoretical position, it is irrelevant until you sell or are assessing one's wealth for some other reason.

Well I am minded to agree but with a subtle change of "wealth" to "finances". Some would seem to frequently look at financial measures such as "yield" or "income" or "dividends", so I would suggest if these are being assessed "wealth" or "capital" should be "assessed" concurrently, and equally as frequently. It is delusional to focus only on the former, and ignore the latter (particularly when they show a negative outcome) as part of a Portfolio Management Review.

[Dod101]

On the subject of HFEL, I sold out some years ago, as I didn't like HFEL's higher yield apparently being at the expense of poorer capital performance. I preferred its peers for their lower yield, but superior capital growth performance. (I vaguely recollect that at that time it also had a higher exposure to China which I wasn't keen on).

However after increasing my portfolio's exposure to growth through 2020-2021, in 2021 I gradually moved the emphasis back towards income. Following on from that, I did, ironically, more recently, buy a small amount of HFEL again, as a sort of "income enhancer", one where I wouldn't worry so much about the capital element. I also liked HFEL's exposure to Australia (and Vietnam - small amount) and it's reduced exposure to China (c 11%). So HFEL sits with the likes of (REIT) EPIC and LGEN in my IT portfolio, as income enhancers/boosters.

I had not thought to compare HFEL with say Legal & General. Interesting if you look purely at the income. However, the yield on HFEL was more or less absorbed by its loss of capital, whereas with L & G the trailing yield was 5.99% and the capital gain on the share price was 11.76%, a total return of nearly 18%, not spectacular but quite acceptable to me for such a steady performer. And of course LGEN should not be sitting in your IT portfolio, if, that is you mean Legal & General by LGEN.

Dod

Interesting if you look purely at the income. However, the yield on HFEL was more or less absorbed by its loss of capital,

That's only true if one is rash enough to crystallise any theoretical "loss" now. Until that happens, you only have the income. If and until, one is not winding up one's affairs, it is only a theoretical snapshot.

This is why HYPers are sanguine bout capital values: they don't matter where the holding term is eternal /indefinite. I'd also point out that a single share is generally more of a risk than a collective, so "luck" with one choice of share can easily be offset in some other case one holds.

Arb.

Knowing when to sell is of course the eternal problem but as of now anyone who has held HFEL throughout 2021 is sitting on a loss, nothing theoretical about that. Anyone may chose not to crystalize the loss in the hope that the share price will recover which it may do but of course we do not know how long that may take to happen or if it will happen at all. I see it as just as rash to hold on in the hope than to sell now because at least selling now we know where we are and i see nothing on the horizon which encourages me to think that HFEL is suddenly going to reverse its losses any time soon.

Dod

[Dod101]

No LGEN (or Legal & General for Dods benefit). Though I thought he would know that one, as he holds it.

LGEN and POLY (POLYMETAL) are 2 stocks I hold in my predominantly IT portfolio. I also hold REIT's and a couple of investment companies like PHP and RICA. My REIT's include EPIC.

POLY (gold miner) is one for enhanced income, and possibly ASEI - (ABERDEEN STANDARD EQUITY INCOME.

I happen to know that LGEN stands for Legal & General and I took you at your word in your post but just thought it strange that you would place LGEN alongside HFEL since the one is a single company with an excellent record going back decades whilst the other is a relatively recently established investment trust with at least in recent times a very poor capital record. I most certainly was not getting at you but genuinely wondered if Legal & General was what you meant. Their respective records simply do not compare.

Dod

[Arborbridge]

Knowing when to sell is of course the eternal problem but as of now anyone who has held HFEL throughout 2021 is sitting on a loss, nothing theoretical about that. Anyone may chose not to crystalize the loss in the hope that the share price will recover which it may do but of course we do not know how long that may take to happen or if it will happen at all. I see it as just as rash to hold on in the hope than to sell now because at least selling now we know where we are and i see nothing on the horizon which encourages me to think that HFEL is suddenly going to reverse its losses any time soon.

Dod

There's always a grain of truth, and different ways of looking at what are winners and which are loses. One has to specify the time scale.

I'd also make the point that it's not only HFEL, but SOI, JAGI and several other ITs have shown a loss in 2021. I don't intend to throw them all out and go short termist in the middle or aftermath of a pandemic, war, or stock market crash. In general, those are the times to hold on and see how the dust settles.

Looking at my XIRR flows, I see ITs have given me returns which vary up and down over the years. It's not unusual, so I am not going to slip in and out.

Arb.

[tjh290633]

I like to keep a record of how the share prices of my holdings have moved in the calendar year. The comparison year-on-year is always interesting, with one year's winners often being next year's losers, and vice versa. Here are the last four years' data:

2019             2020             2021              2022
Epic   Change    Epic   Change    Epic   Change    Epic    Change 
SGRO    52.43%   WMH*    43.29%   MKS     69.77%   BA.      55.69%
TW.     41.94%   ADM     25.86%   S32     55.69%   PSON     53.16%
MARS    35.25%   KGF     24.61%   SGRO    51.59%   BP.      43.69%
TSCO    34.25%   RIO     21.47%   IMI     49.01%   SHEL     43.37%
SSE     33.01%   BHP      8.34%   DGE     40.24%   AZN      29.27%
LGEN    31.17%   PSON     6.81%   LLOY    31.17%   IMB      28.12%
AZN     29.52%   RB.      6.74%   BP.     29.71%   BATS     20.05%
BATS    29.26%   SGRO     5.62%   RDSB    28.82%   RIO      18.52%
SMDS    28.37%   SSE      4.28%   BT.A    28.20%   WDS@     17.40%
UU.     28.14%   ULVR     0.95%   AV.     26.20%   BHP      16.84%
IMI     24.89%   PHP@     0.67%   TSCO    25.28%   CPG      16.14%
NG.     23.57%   S32     -1.15%   KGF     25.11%   AV.       7.89%
BA.     23.00%   IMI     -1.19%   NG.     22.52%   TATE      7.53%
WMH     21.58%   SMDS    -2.50%   UU.     21.68%   HLN@      6.16%
RIO     20.72%   AZN     -3.72%   CPG     21.13%   ULVR      5.99%
LLOY    20.61%   UU.     -5.13%   GSK     19.72%   S32       4.38%
BLND    19.80%   NG.     -8.40%   AZN     18.49%   SSE       3.82%
GSK     19.30%   TSCO    -9.33%   BHP     14.26%   IGG      -3.81%
TATE    15.18%   DGE    -10.08%   BA.     12.48%   LLOY     -5.00%
CPG     14.55%   TATE   -11.29%   LGEN    11.76%   NG.      -5.89%
DGE     14.51%   LGEN   -12.15%   SSE      9.93%   UU.      -8.96%
ADM     12.80%   BA.    -13.46%   ADM      8.64%   RKT      -9.27%
AV.     11.50%   TW.    -14.27%   BLND     8.59%   DGE      -9.56%
BHP      7.58%   BATS   -16.20%   TW.      5.85%   GSK     -10.52%
ULVR     5.89%   VOD    -17.59%   IMB      5.28%   LGEN    -16.13%
KGF      4.58%   IMB    -17.84%   SMDS     2.46%   SMDS    -16.23%
RB.      1.93%   AV.    -22.33%   MARS     1.85%   TSCO    -22.66%
VOD     -4.02%   BLND   -23.45%   BATS     0.94%   VOD     -24.96%
RDSB    -4.29%   GSK    -24.56%   PHP     -0.92%   BLND    -25.59%
BP.     -4.91%   CPG    -27.88%   TATE    -1.93%   IMI     -25.81%
MKS    -13.63%   BT.A   -31.28%   RKT     -3.06%   PHP     -26.82%
BT.A   -19.18%   MKS    -36.16%   IGG@    -5.68%   KGF     -30.21%
IMB    -21.37%   MARS   -40.57%   VOD     -7.18%   ADM     -32.31%
S32    -23.37%   LLOY   -41.70%   PSON    -9.88%   BT.A    -33.91%
PSON   -32.12%   RDSB   -43.76%   ULVR   -10.17%   TW.     -42.08%
                 BP.    -45.97%   RIO    -10.57%   MARS*   -42.83%
                                                   MKS     -46.72%
                                                   SGRO    -46.84%

Note that:
@ Addition
* Disposal

Two new shares this year and one disposal.

TJH

[Dod101]

I will do my stats tomorrow but it is interesting to see that Segro has gone from the top of the pile in 2019 to the bottom in 2022. Glad to see a few of the usual suspects doing quite well for 2022, although I am down over the year I am sure.

In 3 of the 4 years BT has been a loser. Glad I do not hold it.

Dod