UK mid-cap and small-cap investment trusts?

[Newroad]

PS MRC was 197.6p then 178.4p at time of writing

So in terms of losses since 13th March

MRC: 9.7%
SCP: 13.5%
THRG: 11.7%

Regards, Newroad

[Arborbridge]

PS MRC was 197.6p then 178.4p at time of writing

So in terms of losses since 13th March

MRC: 9.7%
SCP: 13.5%
THRG: 11.7%

Regards, Newroad

I don't believe checking over such a sort period is useful. I look at 3,5,10 years for some sort of consistency as a starting point, but it always throws up more questions than answers - simply because the future is unknowable. Both the market and the ITs are morphing over time and that undermines our best efforts.

BRSC also has an excellent record, though I have never owned it.

Arb.

[Newroad]

I can't disagree, Arb.

However, in this case, it was more an observation (with the first two, at least) the consequences of my inaction.

Fortunately, for once, the consequences were positive!

Regards, Newroad

[BullDog]

I was lucky to get out of Throgmorton at break even. It's continued it's journey southwards. There's a bottom out there in the market somewhere but I think the outlook is pretty awful short term for small cap stocks. It's looking too soon to buy back in again. IMO. But my crystal ball is very cloudy today.

[Itsallaguess]

I own Mercantile (MRC) as my only UK mid and small cap trust. It has had a good reputation but has perhaps not done so well recently.

I also have had Black Rock smaller companies on my watch list for some time, mainly because of this article about the oldest investment trusts together with 3 decades of performance data:

https://www.itinvestor.co.uk/2023/04/returns-from-the-oldest-trusts-revisited/

Thanks for that link. What a great hunting ground!

An interesting article - thanks fisher.

Here's the first table from that link, still showing annualised performance over different time-scales, but with an additional column that shows each IT's yield, for anyone like myself who likes to invest in that 'useful yield' sweet-spot where some level of long-term capital return might also accompany that regular income, with the following table ranked by yield -

Investment Trust               Yield    AIC Sector                   Launched   10 years   20 years   30 years
Henderson Far East Income      12.04%   Asia Pacific Equity Income   1930       3.40%      9.00%      8.20%
abrdn Diversified I&G          7.32%    Flexible Investment          1898       1.10%      4.90%      4.30%
Shires Income                  6.73%    UK Equity Income             1929       6.40%      10.00%     6.40%
TR Property                    6.08%    Property Securities          1905       8.00%      11.80%     12.60%
Merchants                      5.76%    UK Equity Income             1889       8.90%      9.70%      8.40%
City of London                 5.39%    UK Equity Income             1891       6.70%      9.20%      8.20%
Dunedin Income Growth          5.24%    UK Equity Income             1873       6.30%      8.50%      7.40%
Murray International           5.05%    Global Equity Income         1907       6.20%      12.10%     9.50%
Murray Income                  4.86%    UK Equity Income             1923       6.10%      8.90%      7.80%
JPMorgan European G&I          4.77%    Europe                       1929       10.50%     11.00%     9.50%
Law Debenture                  4.22%    UK Equity Income             1889       9.90%      11.70%     10.40%
Temple Bar                     4.17%    UK Equity Income             1926       4.70%      9.20%      8.90%
Henderson Smaller Companies    4.13%    UK Smaller Companies         1887       9.20%      14.20%     7.30%
Edinburgh                      4.12%    UK Equity Income             1889       6.10%      9.90%      7.30%
Mercantile                     4.02%    UK All Companies             1884       7.90%      11.50%     10.40%
JPMorgan Global G&I            4.01%    Global Equity Income         1887       13.70%     12.80%     9.90%
BlackRock Smaller Companies    3.49%    UK Smaller Companies         1906       9.90%      15.60%     11.30%
Scottish American              3.06%    Global Equity Income         1873       12.20%     11.60%     8.20%
Canadian General Investments   2.91%    North America                1930       12.30%     11.90%     11.90%
Henderson European Focus       2.88%    Europe                       1947       10.60%     12.40%     11.60%
Witan                          2.73%    Global                       1909       9.30%      10.10%     8.70%
3i Group                       2.68%    Private Equity               1945       22.80%     15.40%     11.0% *
Alliance Trust                 2.55%    Global                       1888       11.20%     10.00%     8.70%
Bankers                        2.50%    Global                       1888       9.50%      10.70%     9.30%
Finsbury Growth & Income       2.38%    UK Equity Income             1926       9.50%      13.30%     10.70%
Brunner                        2.26%    Global                       1927       11.20%     10.80%     8.70%
Global Smaller Companies       1.78%    Global Smaller Companies     1889       8.10%      13.90%     9.70%
AVI Global                     1.76%    Global                       1889       9.00%      11.40%     11.00%
Hansa Investment Company       1.76%    Flexible Investment          1912       2.80%      8.90%      9.80%
F&C                            1.60%    Global                       1868       11.90%     11.10%     9.20%
JPMorgan Japanese              1.41%    Japan                        1927       9.00%      8.30%      3.50%
JPMorgan American              0.96%    North America                1881       14.50%     12.20%     10.30%
Baillie Gifford China Growth   0.84%    China / Greater China        1907       2.30%      7.80%      3.90%
Scottish Mortgage              0.64%    Global                       1909       16.10%     15.30%     11.70%
Monks                          0.35%    Global                       1929       11.50%     11.00%     9.70%

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Arborbridge]

That makes the list come alive for income investors. I'm please to see several of my own investments looking fair enough in that 4-5%+ sweet spot.

Draw the line where you personally need it. Mrs Arb, for exmple, doesn't draw any income so her investments in FCIT and Monks still look reasonable choices, as they did when first bought.

Arb.

[BullDog]

That makes the list come alive for income investors. I'm please to see several of my own investments looking fair enough in that 4-5%+ sweet spot.

Draw the line where you personally need it. Mrs Arb, for exmple, doesn't draw any income so her investments in FCIT and Monks still look reasonable choices, as they did when first bought.

Arb.

And of some interest (maybe?) the only one in the list yielding above the sometimes suggested 2x CTY yield danger zone? The dog otherwise known as HFEL.

[CryptoPlankton]

That makes the list come alive for income investors. I'm please to see several of my own investments looking fair enough in that 4-5%+ sweet spot.

Draw the line where you personally need it. Mrs Arb, for exmple, doesn't draw any income so her investments in FCIT and Monks still look reasonable choices, as they did when first bought.

Arb.

And of some interest (maybe?) the only one in the list yielding above the sometimes suggested 2x CTY yield danger zone? The dog otherwise known as HFEL.

Yes, interesting that if you had invested in that "dog" 30 years ago, you'd be better off than if you'd bought one of four of those "sweet spot" ITs (DIG, MUT, EDIN or HSL). Funnily enough, CTY would have given an identical return to HFEL.

As we are frequently told, TR is all that matters, not how it is derived...

[Newroad]

Afternoon All.

I'm glad I re-raised this thread, even though it has taken a different turn. Led by Fisher's contribution then followed by IAAG's, it has become even more interesting. Two things spring out to me

(1) Maybe MRCH is the new CTY (better long and short term performance). Indeed, perhaps it was the old CTY, starting two years earlier!

(2) A new option for me has perhaps emerged if my pseudo-HYP doesn't stand the test of time over c10 years. Move from

VWRL/VWRP -> VHYL
ATST/FCIT/MWY -> MRCH
VAGP stays
BIPS stays

and other than the odd minor rebalance (possibly on draw down) fire'n'forget. It may even be that one doesn't even need to draw down much, e.g

29% VHYL (@3.59% yield)
29% MRCH (@5.77%)
28% VAGP (@2.24%)
14% BIPS (@7.10%)

would currently yield 4.34% {first set of percentages are age based: 78-(age/3)% equities} - enough to likely live off the income. Or, if preferring to remain fully global

29% VHYL (@3.59% yield)
29% MYI (@5.01%)
28% VAGP (@2.24%)
14% BIPS (@7.10%)

which would yield 4.12%. In either case, draw down the "usual" 4% a year and hope for the best - the rest going into a slush fund.

All would adhere to my current preferred structure - equities % determined as above, 50% passive/50% active - bond residual 67% investment grade passive, 33% mostly high yield active.

Regards, Newroad

[Itsallaguess]

‎
Apologies, I also meant to include Discount/Premium information in the earlier table, so here it is -

Investment Trust               Yield    Discount / Premium   AIC Sector                    Launched    10 years    20 years    30 years
Henderson Far East Income      12.04%   -3.03%               Asia Pacific Equity Income    1930        3.40%       9.00%       8.20%
abrdn Diversified I&G          7.32%    -30.12%              Flexible Investment           1898        1.10%       4.90%       4.30%
Shires Income                  6.73%    -9.30%               UK Equity Income              1929        6.40%       10.00%      6.40%
TR Property                    6.08%    -10.35%              Property Securities           1905        8.00%       11.80%      12.60%
Merchants                      5.76%    -1.65%               UK Equity Income              1889        8.90%       9.70%       8.40%
City of London                 5.39%    -1.12%               UK Equity Income              1891        6.70%       9.20%       8.20%
Dunedin Income Growth          5.24%    -12.64%              UK Equity Income              1873        6.30%       8.50%       7.40%
Murray International           5.05%    -11.62%              Global Equity Income          1907        6.20%       12.10%      9.50%
Murray Income                  4.86%    -9.67%               UK Equity Income              1923        6.10%       8.90%       7.80%
JPMorgan European G&I          4.77%    -11.79%              Europe                        1929        10.50%      11.00%      9.50%
Law Debenture                  4.22%    -3.83%               UK Equity Income              1889        9.90%       11.70%      10.40%
Temple Bar                     4.17%    -6.28%               UK Equity Income              1926        4.70%       9.20%       8.90%
Henderson Smaller Companies    4.13%    -13.95%              UK Smaller Companies          1887        9.20%       14.20%      7.30%
Edinburgh                      4.12%    -9.99%               UK Equity Income              1889        6.10%       9.90%       7.30%
Mercantile                     4.02%    -14.96%              UK All Companies              1884        7.90%       11.50%      10.40%
JPMorgan Global G&I            4.01%     1.46%               Global Equity Income          1887        13.70%      12.80%      9.90%
BlackRock Smaller Companies    3.49%    -14.81%              UK Smaller Companies          1906        9.90%       15.60%      11.30%
Scottish American              3.06%    -10.62%              Global Equity Income          1873        12.20%      11.60%      8.20%
Canadian General Investments   2.91%    -35.49%              North America                 1930        12.30%      11.90%      11.90%
Henderson European Focus       2.88%    -12.81%              Europe                        1947        10.60%      12.40%      11.60%
Witan                          2.73%    -9.22%               Global                        1909        9.30%       10.10%      8.70%
3i Group                       2.68%     8.12%               Private Equity                1945        22.80%      15.40%      11.00%
Alliance Trust                 2.55%    -6.12%               Global                        1888        11.20%      10.00%      8.70%
Bankers                        2.50%    -12.80%              Global                        1888        9.50%       10.70%      9.30%
Finsbury Growth & Income       2.38%    -5.61%               UK Equity Income              1926        9.50%       13.30%      10.70%
Brunner                        2.26%    -14.69%              Global                        1927        11.20%      10.80%      8.70%
Global Smaller Companies       1.78%    -15.19%              Global Smaller Companies      1889        8.10%       13.90%      9.70%
AVI Global                     1.76%    -11.48%              Global                        1889        9.00%       11.40%      11.00%
Hansa Investment Company       1.76%    -41.04%              Flexible Investment           1912        2.80%       8.90%       9.80%
F&C                            1.60%    -10.49%              Global                        1868        11.90%      11.10%      9.20%
JPMorgan Japanese              1.41%    -8.26%               Japan                         1927        9.00%       8.30%       3.50%
JPMorgan American              0.96%    -2.48%               North America                 1881        14.50%      12.20%      10.30%
Baillie Gifford China Growth   0.84%    -14.11%              China / Greater China         1907        2.30%       7.80%       3.90%
Scottish Mortgage              0.64%    -16.99%              Global                        1909        16.10%      15.30%      11.70%
Monks                          0.35%    -13.45%              Global                        1929        11.50%      11.00%      9.70%

The above yield and discount information is taken from the relevant AIC information pages for each of the above IT's, and usual caveats apply - for information only, with verification checks of course being required before using any of the above in anger for potential investment purposes...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Arborbridge]

The "dog" HFEL has hardly any discount at all. Strange. I guess people see it as the long term income vehicle that it is, and are not too bothered about the TR. ITs which the market truly do not like are forever at a large discount.

Arb.

[Itsallaguess]

I'm please to see several of my own investments looking fair enough in that 4-5%+ sweet spot.

Me too Arb.

Here's a list of some of my holdings from that earlier table -

Investment Trust               Yield    Discount / Premium   AIC Sector                    Launched    10 years    20 years    30 years
Merchants                      5.76%    -1.65%               UK Equity Income              1889        8.90%       9.70%       8.40%
City of London                 5.39%    -1.12%               UK Equity Income              1891        6.70%       9.20%       8.20%
Murray International           5.05%    -11.62%              Global Equity Income          1907        6.20%       12.10%      9.50%
JPMorgan European G&I          4.77%    -11.79%              Europe                        1929        10.50%      11.00%      9.50%
Law Debenture                  4.22%    -3.83%               UK Equity Income              1889        9.90%       11.70%      10.40%
Edinburgh                      4.12%    -9.99%               UK Equity Income              1889        6.10%       9.90%       7.30%
JPMorgan Global G&I            4.01%     1.46%               Global Equity Income          1887        13.70%      12.80%      9.90%

F&C                            1.60%    -10.49%              Global                        1868        11.90%      11.10%      9.20%

I've split FCIT away from the top group as they're held as part of my long-term growth holdings, rather than what I consider to by my income portfolio, even though the 1.6% yield still ends up being bunched in with my other dividend income.

EDIN from the above list is a relatively small legacy holding of mine, where I've preferred to fund the other three UK-facing IT's over recent years, and I'm pleased to see that approach being justified in the above long-term figures.

Overall I'm happy to see the above list of geographically-spread holdings in the original table, and to see the long-term returns from them whilst they deliver that regular income for me, and your use of the term 'sweet-spot' chimes with my own long-held view that income-investing doesn't necessarily have to mean fishing in overly-volatile waters, and there's useful methods available for people who might prefer a much more 'hands off' income strategy than what often looks like a 'volatile plate-spinning' single-share UK-centric approach...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Arborbridge]

I'm please to see several of my own investments looking fair enough in that 4-5%+ sweet spot.

Me too Arb.

Here's a list of some of my holdings from that earlier table -

Investment Trust               Yield    Discount / Premium   AIC Sector                    Launched    10 years    20 years    30 years
Merchants                      5.76%    -1.65%               UK Equity Income              1889        8.90%       9.70%       8.40%
City of London                 5.39%    -1.12%               UK Equity Income              1891        6.70%       9.20%       8.20%
Murray International           5.05%    -11.62%              Global Equity Income          1907        6.20%       12.10%      9.50%
JPMorgan European G&I          4.77%    -11.79%              Europe                        1929        10.50%      11.00%      9.50%
Law Debenture                  4.22%    -3.83%               UK Equity Income              1889        9.90%       11.70%      10.40%
Edinburgh                      4.12%    -9.99%               UK Equity Income              1889        6.10%       9.90%       7.30%
JPMorgan Global G&I            4.01%     1.46%               Global Equity Income          1887        13.70%      12.80%      9.90%

F&C                            1.60%    -10.49%              Global                        1868        11.90%      11.10%      9.20%

I've split FCIT away from the top group as they're held as part of my long-term growth holdings, rather than what I consider to by my income portfolio, even though the 1.6% yield still ends up being bunched in with my other dividend income.

EDIN from the above list is a relatively small legacy holding of mine, where I've preferred to fund the other three UK-facing IT's over recent years, and I'm pleased to see that approach being justified in the above long-term figures.

Overall I'm happy to see the above list of geographically-spread holdings in the original table, and to see the long-term returns from them whilst they deliver that regular income for me, and your use of the term 'sweet-spot' chimes with my own long-held view that income-investing doesn't necessarily have to mean fishing in overly-volatile waters, and there's useful methods available for people who might prefer a much more 'hands off' income strategy than what often looks like a 'volatile plate-spinning' single-share UK-centric approach...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

You and I have holdings in all those, the same. Either we are both equally stupid or equally wise - or somewhere in between.

One point about this excellent table we should not forget - it is self selecting, in that only ITs in existence for a very long time have been considered. That was the whole point, of course, but there are some excellent younger ITs people should also look at.

Arb.

[fisher]

I would urge some caution at only looking at the 10, 20 and 30 year statistics from the first table in the article. A good performance in the last 10 years would also flatter the 20 and 30 year figures. I prefer looking at discrete decade performance figures as given in the later table. This gives me more of an idea of what the consistency of performance has been across the decades in bull and bear markets. I like to pick ITs that have good performance figures in each discrete period.

There is also an older itinvestor article covering global ITs which has a different set of trusts, although there is some overlap. It is from a while ago (2020) so the decades starts and ends are slightly different.

https://www.itinvestor.co.uk/2020/06/20 ... -compared/

[Itsallaguess]

I would urge some caution at only looking at the 10, 20 and 30 year statistics from the first table in the article. A good performance in the last 10 years would also flatter the 20 and 30 year figures.

I prefer looking at discrete decade performance figures as given in the later table. This gives me more of an idea of what the consistency of performance has been across the decades in bull and bear markets.

I like to pick ITs that have good performance figures in each discrete period.

Here's the two tables in the article combined, with additional AIC yield and discount information, and capturing both sets of return details (ranked by current yield) -

Investment Trust                Yield     Discount / Premium    AIC Sector                    Launched    10 years    20 years    30 years        2013-2023    2003-2013    1993-2003
Henderson Far East Income       12.04%    -3.03%                Asia Pacific Equity Income    1930        3.40%       9.00%       8.20%           3.40%        14.90%       6.50%
abrdn Diversified I&G           7.32%     -30.12%               Flexible Investment           1898        1.10%       4.90%       4.30%           1.10%        8.80%        3.10%
Shires Income                   6.73%     -9.30%                UK Equity Income              1929        6.40%       10.00%      6.40%           6.40%        13.70%       -0.40%
TR Property                     6.08%     -10.35%               Property Securities           1905        8.00%       11.80%      12.60%          8.00%        15.60%       14.30%
Merchants                       5.76%     -1.65%                UK Equity Income              1889        8.90%       9.70%       8.40%           8.90%        10.60%       5.80%
City of London                  5.39%     -1.12%                UK Equity Income              1891        6.70%       9.20%       8.20%           6.70%        11.60%       6.30%
Dunedin Income Growth           5.24%     -12.64%               UK Equity Income              1873        6.30%       8.50%       7.40%           6.30%        10.70%       5.30%
Murray International            5.05%     -11.62%               Global Equity Income          1907        6.20%       12.10%      9.50%           6.20%        18.40%       4.30%
Murray Income                   4.86%     -9.67%                UK Equity Income              1923        6.10%       8.90%       7.80%           6.10%        11.70%       5.80%
JPMorgan European G&I           4.77%     -11.79%               Europe                        1929        10.50%      11.00%      9.50%           10.50%       11.40%       6.70%
Law Debenture                   4.22%     -3.83%                UK Equity Income              1889        9.90%       11.70%      10.40%          9.90%        13.60%       7.70%
Temple Bar                      4.17%     -6.28%                UK Equity Income              1926        4.70%       9.20%       8.90%           4.70%        13.80%       8.50%
Henderson Smaller Companies     4.13%     -13.95%               UK Smaller Companies          1887        9.20%       14.20%      7.30%           9.20%        19.50%       -5.30%
Edinburgh                       4.12%     -9.99%                UK Equity Income              1889        6.10%       9.90%       7.30%           6.10%        13.80%       2.50%
Mercantile                      4.02%     -14.96%               UK All Companies              1884        7.90%       11.50%      10.40%          7.90%        15.20%       8.10%
JPMorgan Global G&I             4.01%     1.46%                 Global Equity Income          1887        13.70%      12.80%      9.90%           13.70%       12.10%       4.40%
BlackRock Smaller Companies     3.49%     -14.81%               UK Smaller Companies          1906        9.90%       15.60%      11.30%          9.90%        21.60%       3.10%
Scottish American               3.06%     -10.62%               Global Equity Income          1873        12.20%      11.60%      8.20%           12.20%       10.90%       1.90%
Canadian General Investments    2.91%     -35.49%               North America                 1930        12.30%      11.90%      11.90%          12.30%       11.40%       12.00%
Henderson European Focus        2.88%     -12.81%               Europe                        1947        10.60%      12.40%      11.60%          10.60%       14.20%       10.00%
Witan                           2.73%     -9.22%                Global                        1909        9.30%       10.10%      8.70%           9.30%        11.00%       5.80%
3i Group                        2.68%     8.12%                 Private Equity                1945        22.80%      15.40%      11.00%          22.80%       8.50%        0.8%
Alliance Trust                  2.55%     -6.12%                Global                        1888        11.20%      10.00%      8.70%           11.20%       8.90%        6.10%
Bankers                         2.50%     -12.80%               Global                        1888        9.50%       10.70%      9.30%           9.50%        11.90%       6.50%
Finsbury Growth & Income        2.38%     -5.61%                UK Equity Income              1926        9.50%       13.30%      10.70%          9.50%        17.20%       5.90%
Brunner                         2.26%     -14.69%               Global                        1927        11.20%      10.80%      8.70%           11.20%       10.40%       4.60%
Global Smaller Companies        1.78%     -15.19%               Global Smaller Companies      1889        8.10%       13.90%      9.70%           8.10%        19.90%       1.90%
AVI Global                      1.76%     -11.48%               Global                        1889        9.00%       11.40%      11.00%          9.00%        13.80%       10.30%
Hansa Investment Company        1.76%     -41.04%               Flexible Investment           1912        2.80%       8.90%       9.80%           2.80%        15.40%       11.50%
F&C                             1.60%     -10.49%               Global                        1868        11.90%      11.10%      9.20%           11.90%       10.30%       5.60%
JPMorgan Japanese               1.41%     -8.26%                Japan                         1927        9.00%       8.30%       3.50%           9.00%        7.60%        -5.50%
JPMorgan American               0.96%     -2.48%                North America                 1881        14.50%      12.20%      10.30%          14.50%       10.00%       6.60%
Baillie Gifford China Growth    0.84%     -14.11%               China / Greater China         1907        2.30%       7.80%       3.90%           2.30%        13.50%       -3.60%
Scottish Mortgage               0.64%     -16.99%               Global                        1909        16.10%      15.30%      11.70%          16.10%       14.50%       4.90%
Monks                           0.35%     -13.45%               Global                        1929        11.50%      11.00%      9.70%           11.50%       10.60%       7.00%

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Arborbridge]

Is there any way we could compile a similar table which includes all the younger ITs too.
It is slightly worrying that this brilliant exercise might be overlooking perfectly good candidates on the grounds that they are "only" 40 or 50 years old.

Arb.

PS I've printed this table out full width to make it easier to see and will now refer to it when researching.
Thanks IAAG.

[Itsallaguess]

Is there any way we could compile a similar table which includes all the younger ITs too.

It is slightly worrying that this brilliant exercise might be overlooking perfectly good candidates on the grounds that they are "only" 40 or 50 years old.

It'll really depend on whether any relevant data is available for a broader set of IT's.

The AIC site has a comprehensive list of IT's, but their discrete performance figures on a per-IT basis is limited to individual 12-month performance over the past 5 years, and with their broader non-discrete performance figures being available only for that past 1, 3, 5, and 10 years, as we can see on the following sample AIC page for Merchants -

https://www.theaic.co.uk/companydata/merchants-trust/performance

So going beyond those time-scales into the much longer periods listed in the earlier tables will be limited to finding some relevant data elsewhere, which I'm currently unaware of.

If someone can find that wider performance data-set for a broader set of IT's, then we'll be able to compile it into a similar table...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[BullDog]

Is there any way we could compile a similar table which includes all the younger ITs too.

It is slightly worrying that this brilliant exercise might be overlooking perfectly good candidates on the grounds that they are "only" 40 or 50 years old.

It'll really depend on whether any relevant data is available for a broader set of IT's.

The AIC site has a comprehensive list of IT's, but their discrete performance figures on a per-IT basis is limited to individual 12-month performance over the past 5 years, and with their broader non-discrete performance figures being available only for that past 1, 3, 5, and 10 years, as we can see on the following sample AIC page for Merchants -

https://www.theaic.co.uk/companydata/merchants-trust/performance

So going beyond those time-scales into the much longer periods listed in the earlier tables will be limited to finding some relevant data elsewhere, which I'm currently unaware of.

If someone can find that wider performance data-set for a broader set of IT's, then we'll be able to compile it into a similar table...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Without the considerable work of looking at each IT in turn, I cannot think of anywhere that data might be readily available? Interesting as it would be, I doubt anyone can come up with a fairly easy way of collecting all that information from so many companies?

[fisher]

It'll really depend on whether any relevant data is available for a broader set of IT's.

The AIC site has a comprehensive list of IT's, but their discrete performance figures on a per-IT basis is limited to individual 12-month performance over the past 5 years, and with their broader non-discrete performance figures being available only for that past 1, 3, 5, and 10 years, as we can see on the following sample AIC page for Merchants -

https://www.theaic.co.uk/companydata/merchants-trust/performance

So going beyond those time-scales into the much longer periods listed in the earlier tables will be limited to finding some relevant data elsewhere, which I'm currently unaware of.
8
If someone can find that wider performance data-set for a broader set of IT's, then we'll be able to compile it into a similar table...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Without the considerable work of looking at each IT in turn, I cannot think of anywhere that data might be readily available? Interesting as it would be, I doubt anyone can come up with a fairly easy way of collecting all that information from so many companies?

The author of the two articles linked above states the following in the older article: "Most performance stats cover a maximum of ten years but I’ve managed to get some data going back to 1992."

So we could ask him where he got the data from and whether we can access it. It may cover more ITs. I have posted a message asking him about the data on the later article.

[fisher]

I have had a reply from "itinvestor":

These numbers came from an AIC press release, which you can find at https://www.theaic.co.uk/aic/news/press-releases. They only release these sort of figures now and again though.

As far as I know, the best way to get this data otherwise is to manually go into the performance charts on the AIC site and amend the date range to get the time period you want e.g. https://www.theaic.co.uk/companydata/ci ... erformance

The AIC data comes from Morningstar and seems to go back to January 1970, assuming the trust’s launch date wasn’t later than that of course. NAV total return data only seems to go back to the middle of 2008. You can add several tickers to a single chart rather than doing a new chart for each trust but, even so, it is a bit fiddly. I then use the power function on a spreadsheet to calculate an annualised return figure as I find this a better way of comparing one trust against another.

Trustnet’s charting tool at https://www2.trustnet.com/Tools/Charting.aspx is another useful resource but it only goes back to January 1995 and it only shows the precise total return data from that date (and over the usual latest 1, 3, 5 and 10 year periods). You can choose a later start date you then have the estimate the actual total return figure just by looking at the chart.

Yahoo Finance does some decent historical data as well but I haven’t used that for trusts. It uses an adjusted closing price to reflect past dividends so you can calculate a total return figure using two dates. This has the option to export the data into a CSV file.
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/quote/CTY. ... ry?p=CTY.L

Hope that’s useful. I’m sure there are other free resources available as well but I haven’t checked around for other sites recently.