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20 mph limits

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swill453
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Re: 20 mph limits

#376593

Postby swill453 » January 13th, 2021, 2:07 pm

Lootman wrote:I start with the premise that everyone breaks the law. Some do it more than others. And some have better reasons than others. But we all do it whether by "accident" as you suggest (which of course is no excuse) or for cause. And drivers probably break more laws than non-drivers - who here has never parked illegally "just for 5 minutes"? According to the original post, people routinely drive at 35 or 40 in the 20 zone near him.

So I do not see this as being a matter of "good" people versus "bad" people. Rather we all have criteria for making the decisions that we do. The law is certainly a factor to be taken into account, but is not the only one. For instance you might speed because you are taking your very pregnant wife to the hospital, or to escape a dangerous situation. Every law has valid exceptions.

So Swill is wrong to assert that I have a "breathtaking" disregard for the law. It is true that I do not mindlessly and slavishly follow every technical regulation just because it is a regulation. Rather I use my judgement to try and always make the best decision in any circumstance. I am no goody-two-shoes but nor I am a serial criminal. Decisions are carefully considered.

And in the 50 years I have been driving I have received just 2 non-parking tickets. Neither was for speeding. One minor "fender bender" accident. Some might call that a good driving record. :D

You're completely missing the point of the discussion. It was never about whether speeding, or breaking the law in general, was a good or bad thing.

It was the ridiculous notion that a driver who was observing the law by driving at the speed limit, should inconvenience themselves by pulling over so that drivers behind who wished to break the law could do so without inconvenience.

Scott.

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Re: 20 mph limits

#376600

Postby Lootman » January 13th, 2021, 2:26 pm

swill453 wrote:
Lootman wrote:I start with the premise that everyone breaks the law. Some do it more than others. And some have better reasons than others. But we all do it whether by "accident" as you suggest (which of course is no excuse) or for cause. And drivers probably break more laws than non-drivers - who here has never parked illegally "just for 5 minutes"? According to the original post, people routinely drive at 35 or 40 in the 20 zone near him.

So I do not see this as being a matter of "good" people versus "bad" people. Rather we all have criteria for making the decisions that we do. The law is certainly a factor to be taken into account, but is not the only one. For instance you might speed because you are taking your very pregnant wife to the hospital, or to escape a dangerous situation. Every law has valid exceptions.

So Swill is wrong to assert that I have a "breathtaking" disregard for the law. It is true that I do not mindlessly and slavishly follow every technical regulation just because it is a regulation. Rather I use my judgement to try and always make the best decision in any circumstance. I am no goody-two-shoes but nor I am a serial criminal. Decisions are carefully considered.

And in the 50 years I have been driving I have received just 2 non-parking tickets. Neither was for speeding. One minor "fender bender" accident. Some might call that a good driving record. :D

You're completely missing the point of the discussion. It was never about whether speeding, or breaking the law in general, was a good or bad thing.

It was the ridiculous notion that a driver who was observing the law by driving at the speed limit, should inconvenience themselves by pulling over so that drivers behind who wished to break the law could do so without inconvenience.


Moderator Message:
RS: Personal remarks removed


It is not your job to attempt to police the behaviour of others.

swill453
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Re: 20 mph limits

#376603

Postby swill453 » January 13th, 2021, 2:30 pm

Lootman wrote:I think readers already know that you would never sacrifice your own convenience and instead consider other drivers. There really is no need to keep demonstrating that selfish aspect of your personality, and using an arbitrary speed limit to rationalise your arrogance.

It is not your job to attempt to police the behaviour of others.

"Not pulling over" is far from "policing the behaviour of others". Selfishness would describe a law-breaker who expected a law-observer to delay their journey so they could get on.

(BTW, I'd prefer it if you'd desist with the personal derogatory comments. It won't stop me posting, however.)

Scott.

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Re: 20 mph limits

#376605

Postby Lootman » January 13th, 2021, 2:36 pm

swill453 wrote:
Lootman wrote:I think readers already know that you would never sacrifice your own convenience and instead consider other drivers. There really is no need to keep demonstrating that selfish aspect of your personality, and using an arbitrary speed limit to rationalise your arrogance.

It is not your job to attempt to police the behaviour of others.

"Not pulling over" is far from "policing the behaviour of others". Selfishness would describe a law-breaker who expected a law-observer to delay their journey so they could get on.

(BTW, I'd prefer it if you'd desist with the personal derogatory comments. It won't stop me posting, however.)

LOL, I cannot imagine what would stop you from posting!

I think you are wrong and drive selfishly. We should agree to disagree as you clearly are very stubborn on this issue, for reasons only you can answer.

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Re: 20 mph limits

#376606

Postby swill453 » January 13th, 2021, 2:38 pm

Lootman wrote:I think you are wrong and drive selfishly.

I don't recall describing on this thread how I drive.

Scott.

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Re: 20 mph limits

#376609

Postby Lootman » January 13th, 2021, 2:42 pm

swill453 wrote:
Lootman wrote:I think you are wrong and drive selfishly.

I don't recall describing on this thread how I drive.

It is true that you may in fact drive much more considerately than the manner you were describing, which might of course just have been theoretical posturing. In which case, good for you, as it is less likely to lead to a road rage incident or dangerous overtaking.

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Re: 20 mph limits

#376610

Postby Nimrod103 » January 13th, 2021, 2:45 pm

swill453 wrote:
Lootman wrote:I start with the premise that everyone breaks the law. Some do it more than others. And some have better reasons than others. But we all do it whether by "accident" as you suggest (which of course is no excuse) or for cause. And drivers probably break more laws than non-drivers - who here has never parked illegally "just for 5 minutes"? According to the original post, people routinely drive at 35 or 40 in the 20 zone near him.

So I do not see this as being a matter of "good" people versus "bad" people. Rather we all have criteria for making the decisions that we do. The law is certainly a factor to be taken into account, but is not the only one. For instance you might speed because you are taking your very pregnant wife to the hospital, or to escape a dangerous situation. Every law has valid exceptions.

So Swill is wrong to assert that I have a "breathtaking" disregard for the law. It is true that I do not mindlessly and slavishly follow every technical regulation just because it is a regulation. Rather I use my judgement to try and always make the best decision in any circumstance. I am no goody-two-shoes but nor I am a serial criminal. Decisions are carefully considered.

And in the 50 years I have been driving I have received just 2 non-parking tickets. Neither was for speeding. One minor "fender bender" accident. Some might call that a good driving record. :D

You're completely missing the point of the discussion. It was never about whether speeding, or breaking the law in general, was a good or bad thing.

It was the ridiculous notion that a driver who was observing the law by driving at the speed limit, should inconvenience themselves by pulling over so that drivers behind who wished to break the law could do so without inconvenience.

Scott.


Depends what you mean by pull over. Hogging a middle or outside lane (on a multi-lane road) is not regarded as good driving behaviour, and can get you prosecuted if caught. What if you are in the outside lane doing 70 mph (where permitted), and somebody behind wants to do 80? Bit of a grey area, but I think the same considerations apply, as long as it is safe to move into the slower lane. You don't know why the vehicle behind wants to do 80 - it may be an unmarked police car, MI5 (I used to know an MI5 driver), an emergency vehicle, or somebody rushing his wife to hospital.

In a 20mph zone, it is unlikely there will be a slower lane to pull into. So pulling over would mean effectively stopping to allow faster traffic behind to pass. That doesn't seem to me to be quite so good an option.

Getting back to the original question - which I asked only because my local 20mph zone is now in operation, and I have yet to see anybody keeping their speed below 20. So it is all a complete charade, unless the powers that be consider a reduction from the usual 35 in a 30 zone, to 25 in a 20 zone to be a good result.

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Re: 20 mph limits

#376611

Postby swill453 » January 13th, 2021, 2:47 pm

Lootman wrote:It is true that you may in fact drive much more considerately than the manner you were describing, which might of course just have been theoretical posturing. In which case, good for you, as it is less likely to lead to a road rage incident or dangerous overtaking.

Partially right. I aspire to drive considerately, to avoid road rage or any dangerous behaviour. That includes not becoming frustrated if my progress is being delayed by an otherwise law-abiding driver in front of me.

Scott.

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Re: 20 mph limits

#376613

Postby swill453 » January 13th, 2021, 2:50 pm

Nimrod103 wrote:Depends what you mean by pull over. Hogging a middle or outside lane (on a multi-lane road) is not regarded as good driving behaviour, and can get you prosecuted if caught. What if you are in the outside lane doing 70 mph (where permitted), and somebody behind wants to do 80? Bit of a grey area, but I think the same considerations apply, as long as it is safe to move into the slower lane. You don't know why the vehicle behind wants to do 80 - it may be an unmarked police car, MI5 (I used to know an MI5 driver), an emergency vehicle, or somebody rushing his wife to hospital.

That's been covered, I think everybody has agreed one shouldn't hog an overtaking lane.

In a 20mph zone, it is unlikely there will be a slower lane to pull into. So pulling over would mean effectively stopping to allow faster traffic behind to pass. That doesn't seem to me to be quite so good an option.

Nevertheless, Lootman would prefer if you do.

Getting back to the original question - which I asked only because my local 20mph zone is now in operation, and I have yet to see anybody keeping their speed below 20. So it is all a complete charade, unless the powers that be consider a reduction from the usual 35 in a 30 zone, to 25 in a 20 zone to be a good result.

I suspect they do.

Scott.

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Re: 20 mph limits

#376614

Postby Lootman » January 13th, 2021, 2:51 pm

Nimrod103 wrote:Getting back to the original question - which I asked only because my local 20mph zone is now in operation, and I have yet to see anybody keeping their speed below 20. So it is all a complete charade, unless the powers that be consider a reduction from the usual 35 in a 30 zone, to 25 in a 20 zone to be a good result.

Yes, I suspect the real point of a 20 limit is to get people to drive at 25 or 30 rather than 35 or 40. I think you would be unlucky to get a ticket unless you were doing over 30.

swill453 wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:In a 20mph zone, it is unlikely there will be a slower lane to pull into. So pulling over would mean effectively stopping to allow faster traffic behind to pass. That doesn't seem to me to be quite so good an option.

Nevertheless, Lootman would prefer if you do.

I do not care what you do as I happen to know you live far from me and so I will not get stuck behind you while you crawl along at 20.

But more generally, yes, I think drivers should be considerate towards other drivers and not obstruct them.

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Re: 20 mph limits

#376641

Postby vrdiver » January 13th, 2021, 4:11 pm

Lootman wrote:And in the 50 years I have been driving I have received just 2 non-parking tickets. Neither was for speeding. One minor "fender bender" accident. Some might call that a good driving record. :D

Reminded me of a quotation: never had an accident, but I've seen thousands ;)

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Re: 20 mph limits

#376650

Postby Lootman » January 13th, 2021, 4:21 pm

vrdiver wrote:
Lootman wrote:And in the 50 years I have been driving I have received just 2 non-parking tickets. Neither was for speeding. One minor "fender bender" accident. Some might call that a good driving record. :D

Reminded me of a quotation: never had an accident, but I've seen thousands ;)

In jest of course, but it is not that unusual for the driver causing an accident to not actually be involved in it. And then he just cheerfully carries on his way leaving the carnage he has caused behind him.

Whether such an accident could be caused by a driver dawdling and obstructing is of course a matter for speculation only and so I could not possibly comment . . . :D


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