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E10 petrol in hilly Devon

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raybarrow
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E10 petrol in hilly Devon

#444618

Postby raybarrow » September 23rd, 2021, 8:13 am

Hi Folks,
Just having a few days holiday in Torquay. Read the thread 'Super Dooper' on E10 petrol sometime ago and didn't think it had made any difference to my Fiesta 2011 1.25 Zetec 82 BHP. (E10 compatable for years prior). I live in Birmingham and there aren't any proper climbs there but here in Devon there are some good ones. Found myself having to 'work' the car up hills more than I remember on previous holidays. Perhaps the E10 petrol is having an effect which in 'flat' Birmingham I wouldn't really notice. I think my '52 Astra 1.6 similar BHP, 84 I think, would have coped better but who knows. Maybe my memory is going. Don't really have a problem going to Aberystwyth but the hills, though higher, are not as steep. I suppose that's where the full on torque of an electric vehicle comes into it's own. Not that I'll be considering one til the infrastructure is more secure/reliable.
Ray.

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Re: E10 petrol in hilly Devon

#444707

Postby Lootman » September 23rd, 2021, 1:08 pm

Reminds me of when I decided it was a good idea to drive our small-engined rental car up one of the steepest hills in San Francisco just for fun. The road was between 1 in 3 and 1 in 4. It was an automatic and the engine revved but the car would not move even in the lowest gear, so I guess some part of the transmission was taking the strain.

Luckily there was another and easier route out of there, otherwise I might still be there. Not all cars can get up all hills.

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Re: E10 petrol in hilly Devon

#444788

Postby quelquod » September 23rd, 2021, 5:16 pm

And reminds me of trundling up a 1 in 5 or so in the Lake District with a large caravan on the hook (having ignored the sign which advised against it) a few feet behind a struggling, smoking, heavily laden Renault 4, and hoping it would make it, as I didn’t fancy having to restart if I had to stop behind it. It did make it but it was touch and go.

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Re: E10 petrol in hilly Devon

#444793

Postby jfgw » September 23rd, 2021, 5:24 pm

Maybe we will have to start reversing up steep hills like in the old days of driving heavier vehicles (so I'm told).

Julian F. G. W.

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Re: E10 petrol in hilly Devon

#444828

Postby tjh290633 » September 23rd, 2021, 7:53 pm

jfgw wrote:Maybe we will have to start reversing up steep hills like in the old days of driving heavier vehicles (so I'm told).

Julian F. G. W.

That was when reverse was a lower ratio than first. Probably a 3-speed gearbox as well.

Incidentally, I have found a way of improving my mpg on long motorway journeys. I set the speed limiter to what is 70mpg on Googole Maps, 75 on the speedo. It has raised my mpg from about 46 to 52 just by removing the possibility of accelerating past other cars. It also removes the need to slow down for speed cameras.

TJH

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Re: E10 petrol in hilly Devon

#445028

Postby DrFfybes » September 24th, 2021, 1:24 pm

tjh290633 wrote:Incidentally, I have found a way of improving my mpg on long motorway journeys. I set the speed limiter to what is 70mpg on Googole Maps, 75 on the speedo. It has raised my mpg from about 46 to 52 just by removing the possibility of accelerating past other cars. It also removes the need to slow down for speed cameras.

TJH


Your speed limiter is calibrated in mpg? Kewl :)

I tend to set the cruise at a real world 65 and accelerate past things as required if travelling in the evenings. Gets about 55mpg rather than 50mpg on 'normal' motorway driving in the day when between 60 and 75.

If I sit with the lorries at 60 it does about 60mpg, but I struggle to stay awake.

Paul

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Re: E10 petrol in hilly Devon

#445091

Postby tjh290633 » September 24th, 2021, 4:24 pm

DrFfybes wrote:
tjh290633 wrote:Incidentally, I have found a way of improving my mpg on long motorway journeys. I set the speed limiter to what is 70mph on Google Maps, 75 on the speedo. It has raised my mpg from about 46 to 52 just by removing the possibility of accelerating past other cars. It also removes the need to slow down for speed cameras.

TJH


Your speed limiter is calibrated in mpg? Kewl :)

A lapse of the digit. Mph of course. Corrected here.

TJH

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Re: E10 petrol in hilly Devon

#445124

Postby staffordian » September 24th, 2021, 6:40 pm

tjh290633 wrote:
jfgw wrote:Maybe we will have to start reversing up steep hills like in the old days of driving heavier vehicles (so I'm told).

Julian F. G. W.

That was when reverse was a lower ratio than first. Probably a 3-speed gearbox as well

TJH

Also some older vehicles had a gravity feed from fuel tank to carburettor which meant an unusually steep hill could starve the engine of petrol.

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Re: E10 petrol in hilly Devon

#445150

Postby Dod101 » September 24th, 2021, 8:50 pm

tjh290633 wrote:
jfgw wrote:Maybe we will have to start reversing up steep hills like in the old days of driving heavier vehicles (so I'm told).

Julian F. G. W.

That was when reverse was a lower ratio than first. Probably a 3-speed gearbox as well.

Incidentally, I have found a way of improving my mpg on long motorway journeys. I set the speed limiter to what is 70mpg on Googole Maps, 75 on the speedo. It has raised my mpg from about 46 to 52 just by removing the possibility of accelerating past other cars. It also removes the need to slow down for speed cameras.

TJH


Bloody h***l at your age!

Dod

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Re: E10 petrol in hilly Devon

#445175

Postby gryffron » September 25th, 2021, 12:18 am

raybarrow wrote:Don't really have a problem going to Aberystwyth but the hills, though higher, are not as steep.

Back in the 80s, a friend of mine drove us to Towyn, via Pwllheli to Machynlleth, in one of those tiny Japanese minivans that were really popular at the time. Think it was 900cc. Had to stop 3 times as the engine overheated. Strange you don’t see those tiny vans about any more. Probably because they were rubbish!

According to the “experts” the difference in power between e10 and the earlier standard fuel should be <1% in a compatible engine. So it is very unlikely you’d be able to spot the difference in performance.

Gryff

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Re: E10 petrol in hilly Devon

#445191

Postby AWOL » September 25th, 2021, 9:11 am

I think it's more plausible that the hills showed the limits of your engines power (for the weight carried) than that the miniscule reduction in power from E10 made any difference.

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Re: E10 petrol in hilly Devon

#445232

Postby tjh290633 » September 25th, 2021, 11:42 am

gryffron wrote:
raybarrow wrote:Don't really have a problem going to Aberystwyth but the hills, though higher, are not as steep.

Back in the 80s, a friend of mine drove us to Towyn, via Pwllheli to Machynlleth, in one of those tiny Japanese minivans that were really popular at the time. Think it was 900cc. Had to stop 3 times as the engine overheated. Strange you don’t see those tiny vans about any more. Probably because they were rubbish!

According to the “experts” the difference in power between e10 and the earlier standard fuel should be <1% in a compatible engine. So it is very unlikely you’d be able to spot the difference in performance.

Gryff

Back in the 1950s, I was conductor on a bus from Rye to Hastings with a standing load (35+8 standing) and the bus came to a halt on the steepest part of Guestling Hill. I called out "All out and push!", and several rose from their seats. Actually we made it in about 3 hops in bottom gear, starting at full revs and moving forward, but it kept slowing down. I forget who my driver was, but we had a good laugh at the inability of that bus to complete what was a normal climb. Usually we would get to the top in second with no trouble.

TJH

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Re: E10 petrol in hilly Devon

#445366

Postby raybarrow » September 26th, 2021, 8:55 am

AWOL wrote:I think it's more plausible that the hills showed the limits of your engines power (for the weight carried) than that the miniscule reduction in power from E10 made any difference.


That and in my head I'm regressing back to my younger days with my bigger engined cars that would 'lug up' those hills in a higher gear than the the Fiesta can. I just need to remember to change down earlier then it's fine. 1st and 2nd are quite low and close, then there's a gap to 3rd and that's where the 'power gap' is if you don't keep it going. Still back in Birmingham now so no need to worry about hills.

The Fiesta is going anyway, having an automatic next to make my driving easier and prolong my driving in my dotage.

Cheers,
Ray.

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Re: E10 petrol in hilly Devon

#445458

Postby AWOL » September 26th, 2021, 6:47 pm

I've gone from about 150PS to 135 PS to 95 PS (about 98% of that for BHP conversion) and I am pretty happy with a modern low powered turbo. Sure I don't have the acceleration I once had but I consume much less petrol and feel more comfortable with my impact on the world. I had to get used to giving myself more time to join a road (no longer able to safely nip out) but once I was used to needing more time I really cannot complain. We all have more than enough HP to cruise at legal speed limits and who cares if our acceleration is a little sedate.

I've never owned a diesel as I have never been happy with their particulate matter situation and for all the improvements since I formed this opinion in the 80s I remain unhappy with them and hope electric vehicles become better value before I need to replace a car.

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Re: E10 petrol in hilly Devon

#445523

Postby raybarrow » September 27th, 2021, 9:30 am

AWOL wrote:I've gone from about 150PS to 135 PS to 95 PS (about 98% of that for BHP conversion) and I am pretty happy with a modern low powered turbo. Sure I don't have the acceleration I once had but I consume much less petrol and feel more comfortable with my impact on the world. I had to get used to giving myself more time to join a road (no longer able to safely nip out) but once I was used to needing more time I really cannot complain. We all have more than enough HP to cruise at legal speed limits and who cares if our acceleration is a little sedate.


'Sedate' that pretty much sums up my driving particularly with passengers on board. Drive as though you aimto get there rather than are desperate to get there. 60ishMPH on the motorway is comfortable, economical, doesn't normally require any sudden reactions etc and unless you can do a very long journey, with absolutely no hold ups, doesn't really save you that much time these days. You'll see a lot of those people, who shot past you, at the next roadworks, traffic jam etc.

If that sounds a bit depressing, it isn't meant to be. My 'fun' days of motoring were back in the 60s/70s. Most of today's cars are safe, reliable, efficient (condense those into 'boring') and utilitarian.

Ray.

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Re: E10 petrol in hilly Devon

#445532

Postby bungeejumper » September 27th, 2021, 9:59 am

raybarrow wrote:That and in my head I'm regressing back to my younger days with my bigger engined cars that would 'lug up' those hills in a higher gear than the the Fiesta can. I just need to remember to change down earlier then it's fine.

It probably wasn't just the engine size that made the difference. My dad's old Cortina weighed less than 800 kg - about half of what a better-built modern car of similar size would weigh nowadays. (And less than that after the first five years, when the rust holes had started to lighten the load. :lol: )

Then again, the engines we grew up with had a somewhat longer stroke than modern high-revvers, so it was natural that they could cope with more adversity during their daily travels. :geek:

BJ

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Re: E10 petrol in hilly Devon

#445724

Postby DrFfybes » September 27th, 2021, 7:34 pm

AWOL wrote:I've gone from about 150PS to 135 PS to 95 PS (about 98% of that for BHP conversion) and I am pretty happy with a modern low powered turbo. Sure I don't have the acceleration I once had but I consume much less petrol and feel more comfortable with my impact on the world. I had to get used to giving myself more time to join a road (no longer able to safely nip out) but once I was used to needing more time I really cannot complain. We all have more than enough HP to cruise at legal speed limits and who cares if our acceleration is a little sedate.


MrsF's Z4 has about 4x the power of the Carina. When lolloping along the dual carraigeway or A road the Carina is much more relaxing, as you just go with the flow.

The 4M is a different animal, the seating position, firm ride, quick throttle response, all encourage you to press on a bit more and pop past the mobile homes/caravans/trucks. A lot more fun, 25% more fule, and about 5% quicker overall.

We have just had the Avensis remapped, not really for power but hopefully economy. The 1.6D is unhappy much under 60mph in top, the "change down" light comes on, so this should allow it to run in top gear.

Time will tell.

Paul

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Re: E10 petrol in hilly Devon

#445727

Postby Lootman » September 27th, 2021, 7:46 pm

bungeejumper wrote:the engines we grew up with had a somewhat longer stroke than modern high-revvers, so it was natural that they could cope with more adversity during their daily travels. :geek:

Yeah, I had cars back in the 1970s and 1980s that had 6 or 8 cylinders, but put out 100 to 150 horses. Miserable by today's standards.

But there is something about a large, lazy engine with a long stroke and low compression that make it all feel easy. And the ability to pull away in 3rd gear because of all that torque. I have never liked highly tuned small engines that you had to rev up the wazoo to get any fun out of.

The 2021 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 puts out 760 horses. Torque is now through the 1,000 foot-pound level on some vehicles. Even at my old age they would be fun to drive.

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Re: E10 petrol in hilly Devon

#445751

Postby tjh290633 » September 27th, 2021, 11:00 pm

Lootman wrote:
bungeejumper wrote:the engines we grew up with had a somewhat longer stroke than modern high-revvers, so it was natural that they could cope with more adversity during their daily travels. :geek:

Yeah, I had cars back in the 1970s and 1980s that had 6 or 8 cylinders, but put out 100 to 150 horses. Miserable by today's standards.

But there is something about a large, lazy engine with a long stroke and low compression that make it all feel easy. And the ability to pull away in 3rd gear because of all that torque. I have never liked highly tuned small engines that you had to rev up the wazoo to get any fun out of.

The 2021 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 puts out 760 horses. Torque is now through the 1,000 foot-pound level on some vehicles. Even at my old age they would be fun to drive.

I had a C-reg Vauxhall Cresta PB c.1968 which had the 200cu.inch/3.3 litre 6 cylinder engine and Powerglide 2-speed automatic box. It did 20mpg all day and was very relaxing to drive, except when it periodically dropped its coolant on the road after switching off. Petrol was cheaper then.

TJH


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