Hybrid estates - what other options apart from Toyota Auris?

[Satsuma]

We test drove a hybrid Toyota Auris yesterday.

My OH liked it, I was decidedly unimpressed, putting it mildly. Can anyone recommend other models we could try - looking for an estate version, def not an SUV or 4x4 though.

OH reckons the price tag reflects the newness of the hybrid tech, so the rest of it is lower spec than you'd find on a standard fuel car of the same price range. Given that this is the car we'd be using for longer journeys, I don't think that is acceptable. More detailed review below...

DRIVE: OH said it was ok (given the below, I didn't even bother driving it myself). Both of us drive manuals atm, and this was auto. It was pretty lacking in oomph and I could hear the gearbox whining on several occasions. There is a power mode which helps, but obviously is more thirsty when using the petrol engine. The eco mode is so gutless it is pointless. The standard mode is in between.

FEEL: It felt cramped and small in the front passenger side, less legroom than my car and definitely there was not enough handy storage (what there was was hidden under latches or at the bottom of the door below the arm rest etc), whereas even my little Polo has numerous caddies and slots for stuff.

LOOK: The passenger 'dash' was a pointless huge expanse of cheap plastic, which carried on over to the driver side. In fact, the whole dash looked and felt cheap and the main thing I could see looking towards the driver side was a badly fitted blanking plate which just screamed "look at what you could have won!" for whatever goes there in fancier versions.

COMFORT: And the seats were awful. In just a 40min test drive, the backs of my thighs felt like they were balancing on the point of a triangle and my small hairclip was banging against the angle of the headrest so much I spent most of the drive like I was praying (the cushion itself seemed sort of pointed, so even if I tilted it back it would still bang against my head)

TECH: It has a pointlessly complicated touchscreen (radio, car/battery monitor, sat nav) that just annoyed me after a while - it was fiddly for me as a passenger, and would be downright dangerous as a driver. That whole thing would be a waste of money for me because I'd just stick google maps on my phone and use that. The AC fans are ridiculously powerful, I can't imagine a time when' you 'd need "medium", let alone "fast" speed! The reversing camera is pretty nifty, but...it places you far too close to an obstacle - a car parked behind would be quite pissed off with how little room you had left them to move. And the biggest issue is that you tend to watch ONLY the cam. You forget to look to each side of you with your eyes.

Sats

[redsturgeon]

Just sold a Lexus CT200h that we have had for nearly 5 years, far longer than any other car we have run for the past decade. That was due to the fact that Mrs RS thought it the best car she had every driven (that includes ML Mercedes and Range Rover Evoque) It is a hatchback rather than an estate though. It came very well equipped and had a quality feel inside and still felt and looked new when we sold it after 75,000 miles and five years...never had a thing go wrong with it in all that time.

The Prius might be worth looking at but will probably be very similar to the Auris. The hybrid tech does cost money so you will always either be looking to spend more or get less spec for the same money as a standard fuel car.

The CVT gearbox installed in these cars is a bit noisy but works OK and is efficient. I never felt the need for any more ooomph from the Lexus and the thing about ECO mode is that going around town it is really all you need, how fast do you need to accelerate to 30mph?

Touchscreens or any in car info system are complex and take a bit of getting used to, the Lexus sat nav was hopeless, the Range Rover touch screen system is better and our present system in our BMW PHEV has a lot of stuff on it but most of it you would not use 95% of the time. There are screens showing battery state and condition and how the drive is being split but you never need that stuff at all, just the radio and sat nav (occasionally since I hate sat navs). The great thing about the BMW system though is that the 8 presets, that usually you use to set radio stations, can be used for phone numbers too. So one button press phones through to anyone you choose.

Reversing cameras, I find occasionally useful but most of the time I rely on the mirrors, habit I guess. As to the camera placing you too close to an obstacle, surely it is still your choice how close you want to go.

If you like VWs then there is a PHEV Golf but it is pricey. The other possibility is the Hyundai Ioniq, http://www.carbuyer.co.uk/reviews/hyund ... rid/review, again a hatchback rather than an estate but I think hybrid estates are few and far between.

The thing to decide is if the hybrid is the answer for your type of driving. For long distance motorway journeys, diesel is probably still the best bet, but for around cities and town the hybrid can work better. You will always need to spend more more on it though to get the same spec you would get from a conventional car, whether that trade off is worth it is a personal choice.

John

[saechunu]

You mention the whiney CVT gearbox, so you'd do better to look at a twin clutch automatic. Do you actually need an estate?

The Hyundai Ioniq has been mentioned; Hyundai and Kia combined forces to create a common hybrid platform, which the Ioniq is built on, and Kia's model using this same platform and drivetrain is the Niro. This is notionally an SUV (or 'crossover') but looks like a very slightly chunky hatchback - a really quite conservative 'inoffensive' appearance in my view. 7 year warranty. Perhaps worth a look:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/kia/niro/9 ... 016-review

[bungeejumper]

LOL, Sats, so you've had recs for Toyota and Lexus, which are effectively the same company. And (I think I dare say) the company that's got the furthest with hybrid technology. You might like to have a look at some of the Mitsubishi hybrids, though? Or, in a few years, Volkswagen. I think Volvo are on the case as well.

Speaking as an Auris estate owner (mine is a petrol manual), I take your critical points on several levels. The interior is a mash-up of old and new styles, and you don't win any points in the executive car park. But the front seats are really pretty spacious - maybe the adjustment on yours wasn't right on the day? The aircon fans go into noisy overdrive when you start the car up on a hot day (and then calm down in a minute or two.) And the rear load space is absolutely vast. Haven't run out of stowage facilities yet, and the central console is more intuitive than it looks. Honest!

But fair enough, if you don't take to the car then that's that, and no further questions. I don't think anyone would dispute that it isn't as responsive to drive as some cars. But, at 18 months old, and with 42 months of the new car warranty still to run, mine was just a helluva lot of car for 10K. And famously reliable.

One day I'll go back to VW. But not yet! PM me if I can help with anything.

BJ

[Satsuma]

Thanks all for the comments and tips.

I'm not sure we can stretch to a Lexus, but there may be a deal to be had.
The main use would be for OH to drive to work in/around London, then be driving round town too. He is the one keen on hybrid tech, I'm not as fussed yet (more of a late adopter than he!). Plus we'd use it as the travel-to-family car just for the extra room.

Regarding the size, we would need to get 1, possibly 2 bikes + tons of kit at a time in the back, which is the main driver for wanting an estate, but that Kia Niro is quite an intriguing possibility as it looks vast in the back - I'll send the link to OH, thanks! I think he has looked at and discounted the Ioniq already but will also mention in case.


BJ - you got rid of your VW? I thought you loved that car?! I take your points and might reconsider another look-see at the Auris if necessary.

Cheers all

Sats

[bungeejumper]

BJ - you got rid of your VW? I thought you loved that car?! I take your points and might reconsider another look-see at the Auris if necessary

I did! My old 1.9 TDI Passat gave me six years with only £300 worth of repairs in the whole time I had it. Such a good car. But as it approached 100,000 miles I decided that this was the time to shift it while it was still running impeccably.

There was also the fact that it was a smelly old 2007 turbodiesel dinosaur, which was going to get hammered by punitive congestion charges before very long. I really hope it's gone to a good home - one of those cars that you'd like to send a postcard to.

But I didn't want another diesel, and I thought VW needed a few years to get their stupid corporate heads sorted out properly, and I needed a car that would get me to the Mediterranean twice a year, in seven hours @ 80 mph, and the Auris ticked all the boxes. Haven't regretted it yet.

BJ

[Satsuma]

^^ Had we known, OH would have bought that off you in a flash! (before he had his head turned by hybrids!)

[Slarti]

[quote="Satsuma"It was pretty lacking in oomph and I could hear the gearbox whining on several occasions.[/quote]

Having driven a number of CVT cars since getting my Avensis with CVT, I'd suggest that there is something wrong with the one you tested if you could hear the gearbox.
I've never heard a CVT box.


Also, your comment about the headrest, it needed adjusting so that the nose pointed down and didn't touch you in normal driving.

But given your other dislikes, that doesn't matter.

Slarti

[Satsuma]

Having driven a number of CVT cars since getting my Avensis with CVT, I'd suggest that there is something wrong with the one you tested if you could hear the gearbox.
I've never heard a CVT box.

How odd. I don't really recall the details, but I am pretty sure we had just left some motorway services and were accelerating onto the main road, and the engine just sounded like it needed to change gear, but wasn't. I didn't notice it at any other time on or off the motorway (but I think by then my mind was already made up from staring at the plastic everywhere )

I did try fiddling with the headrest a lot, but it seemed immovable so that was another irritant that just didn't help matters, unfortunately.

But thank you for the comments - if I end up giving it another chance I will be sure to bear them in mind.

Sats

[Redmires]

I've just moved on to the Kia Niro, having previously had the Lexus CT, Honda Insight and Toyota Prius (yes, I like my hybrids), These are/were all company car workhorses and were chosen because a) I like automatics b) I don't like diesels c) good on mpg

The Niro - I've only had it 3 weeks but already I'm quite taken by it. It's far bigger than the Lexus, better mpg and has all I ask from a car (automatic, air con, sat nav etc). It's comfy on long drives and the lease was much cheaper when compared to similar spec Lexus or Prius. I must admit that I do prefer the CVT transmissions of the previous cars to the Niro's auto 6 speed as it's seems jerky by comparison, however, I've been driving CVT's for about 7 years so it may just take a bit more time to get used to. All the cars performed faultlessly and needed no attention apart from the normal servicing and tyres (Lexus - 3 years 60k, Honda - 2 years, 40k, Prius - 2 years 40k). Just hope the Kia follows the same pattern. To go back to the original question though - the Kia is nearer to an estate car than the others. My OH used to laugh at the boot size of the Lexus - a laptop bag and a couple of bags of groceries and it was full. Still - she has a Ford Kuga, which we use for the weekend trips to B&Q etc.

[Satsuma]

Thanks Redmires, that's encouraging and good to have a first hand experience.

Do you reckon a couple of bikes would fit in the back?

The good thing about estates is not having to take wheels off bicycles to get them in, but they all have quick release so it's not the end of the world to take the front one off. Back is more of a PITA of course (and in any case they fit in my car like that!)

Sats

[Slarti]

I don't really recall the details, but I am pretty sure we had just left some motorway services and were accelerating onto the main road, and the engine just sounded like it needed to change gear, but wasn't.

Ah, that is different. When you put your pedal to the metal in a CVT box car they tend to hit higher revs and then just stay there until you ease off. And even then the revs seem to stay higher for a little.

It does mean that you can get acceleration that surprises people, if you want to.

Slarti

[Redmires]

Thanks Redmires, that's encouraging and good to have a first hand experience.

Do you reckon a couple of bikes would fit in the back?

Sats

That's a timely question. I picked up a new bike last week and it fitted in the back of the Niro ok. I had to take take the front wheel off because there was three of us in the car so the rear split seat was one third up (for a single rear passenger). With the seats down fully I reckon it would fit in with ease. If you wait a day or two then I can confirm practically - I'll see if I can post a photo. How would you carry two bikes - would it be one on top of the other ? If so, what do you do to stop them scratching each other ? Do you throw in a few blankets etc ?

[Satsuma]

Ah, that is different. When you put your pedal to the metal in a CVT box car they tend to hit higher revs and then just stay there until you ease off. And even then the revs seem to stay higher for a little.

I live and learn, thank you for that Slarti! Poor old Auris, I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for it now!

[Satsuma]

Thanks Redmires, that's encouraging and good to have a first hand experience.

Do you reckon a couple of bikes would fit in the back?

Sats

That's a timely question. I picked up a new bike last week and it fitted in the back of the Niro ok. I had to take take the front wheel off because there was three of us in the car so the rear split seat was one third up (for a single rear passenger). With the seats down fully I reckon it would fit in with ease. If you wait a day or two then I can confirm practically - I'll see if I can post a photo. How would you carry two bikes - would it be one on top of the other ? If so, what do you do to stop them scratching each other ? Do you throw in a few blankets etc ?

First off - split seats - very handy!

Would be v grateful for your first hand experiences and pics if possible, thanks.
Yes usually it's just blankets and whatnot to keep them separate. Usually his carbon bike on top as it's the lightest/most precious!

Thanks
Sats