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Range info please: VW id3 58kw version

Passion, instruction, buying, care, maintenance and more, any form of vehicle discussion is welcome here
Urbandreamer
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Re: Range info please: VW id3 58kw version

#460698

Postby Urbandreamer » November 24th, 2021, 9:46 pm

Arborbridge wrote:However, we must all ask, why should we put up with such restraints when we can be sure of motoring 220 miles to Devon and back without going anywhere near a fuel station, let alone worrying if the equipment is occupied or broken when I need to refuel (in the case of an EV possibly, actually probably, involving a detour).


Arb.


I quite agree. Why should I not be able to get into my car and fly to the south of France? After all they have been promising, and building prototype, flying cars for years. Then again in the 60's they built cars that floated so I should just be able to drive across the channel if they had proved popular.

Personally what I have done in the past is fly, then hire a car. I also didn't have to fuel the plane mid flight.

I have also hired a transit, rather than buy one, when I needed to transport loads of stuff.

Seriously absolutely nobody makes a small nippy town car that can transport horses, and a football team, and ford rivers etc.

My previous car was a people carrier, the current is a lot smaller. Now and again I notice the difference. Like squeeing through narrow gaps or trying to transport lots of people. I need to make a special trip or diversion to put fuel in the car, not so the guy who lives across the road.

BEV's are more range constrained than traditional cars, but is that really a desperate problem. You need to pick something that does 90% of what you want as 100% is not possible. Do you never fly or use a train? If you do, why are you not using the car?

scotview
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Re: Range info please: VW id3 58kw version

#460704

Postby scotview » November 24th, 2021, 10:08 pm

Just one more consideration.

We didn't get a BEV to save the planet, we got it because it seemed to be a convenient purchase. If someone is getting a BEV because they REALLY believe in climate change, then they should get a car like our 45 kWh ID.3 which is small with a relatively light weight battery.

The reason for this is that the smaller the battery the lighter it is, the less inertia the drive train has to overcome, hence less overall electricity usage. Optimum benefit to the planet. I doubt that most people will give energy efficiency a second thought when they get a BEV. It will likely be "I want the biggest battery I can get". That logic gives absolutely zero consideration to the planet.

I suppose the grail for BEV's will be to have light weight batteries with high energy density (possibly solid state)......they will be transformational.

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Re: Range info please: VW id3 58kw version

#460727

Postby Howard » November 25th, 2021, 12:41 am

Arborbridge wrote:
BobbyD wrote:May or may not be a solution but there are ID.3 trims that come with the bigger 77kWh battery pack and have WLTP ranges north of of 300 miles.


I enquired about that, but they do not come as an optional extra, except by buying the higher trimmed car - the "Tour" version - which starts at £39,685.

Kia at least give you the option of just paying for different battery sizes. I'm sure years ago, it was the practice to be able to pay for extra features: now they've tied one down to different trim levels which may also include items in which one is not interested.

Truth is, though, that I found the Kia seating position less comfortable.


Our KIA Soul BEV has, as standard, an electrically powered driving seat. Forward, back, up, down tilt and recline. I'd be surprised, with the facility to adjust the steering wheel as well, if it could not be adjusted to suit virtually every driver's requirements.

We are going on a fairly long trip to central London soon so it will be a chance to assess its range in winter conditions on the motorway plus London traffic. Will report on our experience. :)

regards

Howard

BobbyD
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Re: Range info please: VW id3 58kw version

#460730

Postby BobbyD » November 25th, 2021, 4:23 am

scotview wrote:Just one more consideration.

We didn't get a BEV to save the planet, we got it because it seemed to be a convenient purchase. If someone is getting a BEV because they REALLY believe in climate change, then they should get a car like our 45 kWh ID.3 which is small with a relatively light weight battery.

The reason for this is that the smaller the battery the lighter it is, the less inertia the drive train has to overcome, hence less overall electricity usage. Optimum benefit to the planet. I doubt that most people will give energy efficiency a second thought when they get a BEV. It will likely be "I want the biggest battery I can get". That logic gives absolutely zero consideration to the planet.


To be fair an ID.3 of any description is probably amongst the most environmentally car purchases available:

The ID.3 is made net carbon neutral

We are faced by the greatest challenge in our company’s history. It is perhaps the greatest challenge in the history of mobility: we are assuming responsibility for our share of global carbon emissions.

That is our way to carbon neutrality. And it starts here.


- https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/electri ... s/id3.html

Anybody who doesn't need the bigger battery would also be best advised not to buy one, on the grounds that they are more expensive! It's amazing how few people actually consider the use they are going to put something to when purchasing it...

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Re: Range info please: VW id3 58kw version

#460736

Postby Arborbridge » November 25th, 2021, 7:43 am

A couple of the replies below are amusing but seriously? Was I asking for something out of the ordinary - like a car which could fly to France or tow a horsebox?

I am only expecting EVs to come up with a utility which approaches that of "normal" cars, not some miracle vehicle which does everything including flying. Until they do, they will not become popular.

Today, I am ringing round to get some idea of insurance costs. I expect they will be higher, further eroding any possible saving on running costs, which is already looking disappointing. I anticipate worse to come when electricity prices rise as I come off my fixed deal - just in time to meet my newly delivered EV.

Arb.

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Re: Range info please: VW id3 58kw version

#460737

Postby Arborbridge » November 25th, 2021, 7:52 am

Howard wrote:
Our KIA Soul BEV has, as standard, an electrically powered driving seat. Forward, back, up, down tilt and recline. I'd be surprised, with the facility to adjust the steering wheel as well, if it could not be adjusted to suit virtually every driver's requirements.

We are going on a fairly long trip to central London soon so it will be a chance to assess its range in winter conditions on the motorway plus London traffic. Will report on our experience. :)

regards

Howard


Look forward to your report.

As regards the comfort. I just felt restricted by it. The small wheel makes for an awkward arm position and the steering seemed slightly heavy, which is potentially a problem on a long journey (the VW is lighter, but if anything, a bit twitchy). And I felt constricted in the sense that I couldn't change to different positions to relieve the symptoms of shoulder ache, one of my problems on a long journey. My first drive, the impression was quite bad: on the second drive I convinced myself I could get used to it. The seats themselves were good, with good side support, however (much better than the id3).

It's all a bit difficult to judge on driving just a short time, and actually, I've never found the Merc all that comfortable on a long journey, only "acceptable".


Arb.

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Re: Range info please: VW id3 58kw version

#460758

Postby BobbyD » November 25th, 2021, 9:21 am

Arborbridge wrote:I am only expecting EVs to come up with a utility which approaches that of "normal" cars, not some miracle vehicle which does everything including flying. Until they do, they will not become popular.


Demand already outstrips supply. 15.2% of UK car registrations in the UK last month were pure BEV, 17.1% in Germany, 70.1% in Norway, 13% in China...

With ICE you are using a product at the thick end of a century's development, built from well developed supply chains at their peak, and refuelling infrastructure which has been built up over decades with no competition. That BEV's are already this competitive this early, and quite capable of fulfilling the needs of more customers than there will be cars to sell to for a number of years just highlights their long term potential. Imagine how good they'll be when the push to replace them with personal teleportation devices begins in 2147.

Urbandreamer
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Re: Range info please: VW id3 58kw version

#460765

Postby Urbandreamer » November 25th, 2021, 9:50 am

Arborbridge wrote:I am only expecting EVs to come up with a utility which approaches that of "normal" cars, not some miracle vehicle which does everything including flying. Until they do, they will not become popular.
Arb.


It's the term "normal" that is the problem. Consider a 1960's mini, fiat 550 or even bubble car. What was the range on those "normal" cars? How about the "utility".

I remember a work colegue in the 80's boasting that he could drive from Manchester to Exmouth without refueling in his "normal" Audi. About the volume of his boot and how much he could transport there. I was driving a mini at the time with it's tiny boot and petrol tank.

There are EV's with a 300+ mile range, which would easily beat a 1960's mini with it's 5 gallon tank. Are they intended for the same job? Likewise Sky engineers now drive EV vans with room for their tools. Are these examples intended to fit the same role.

If you need the range, then you need the range.

However the range or boot space didn't limit the popularity of cars like the mini or fiat 550. Why claim what was true for them can't be true for BEV's.

Not all cars need to be SUV's to be "normal".

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Re: Range info please: VW id3 58kw version

#460769

Postby AF62 » November 25th, 2021, 9:55 am

Arborbridge wrote:Today, I am ringing round to get some idea of insurance costs. I expect they will be higher, further eroding any possible saving on running costs


You might be pleasantly surprised then.

When we leased a BEV as a second car the insurance for it was £150 for the year - and that was with zero no claims bonus as up to that point we had only been using only one car.

And it was serviced this week - £99 at a main dealer (and it will be the same next year, and the year after).

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Re: Range info please: VW id3 58kw version

#460917

Postby Arborbridge » November 25th, 2021, 5:21 pm

AF62 wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:Today, I am ringing round to get some idea of insurance costs. I expect they will be higher, further eroding any possible saving on running costs


You might be pleasantly surprised then.

When we leased a BEV as a second car the insurance for it was £150 for the year - and that was with zero no claims bonus as up to that point we had only been using only one car.

And it was serviced this week - £99 at a main dealer (and it will be the same next year, and the year after).


You did well - we've been quoted £573 a year. That's something like £200 more than our oldish Merc. How on earth can you get £150 - that's less than I've seen for a decade, and we regularly shop around.

Anyhow, the result of all my angst and discussions is that I've ordered a VW ID3 today.

Thanks to all those who help in various ways, particularly to scotsview who PM'd me.
I now have the best part of six months to repent at leisure! ( and find a cheaper insurance deal?)

Arb.

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Re: Range info please: VW id3 58kw version

#460931

Postby AF62 » November 25th, 2021, 6:13 pm

Arborbridge wrote:
AF62 wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:Today, I am ringing round to get some idea of insurance costs. I expect they will be higher, further eroding any possible saving on running costs


You might be pleasantly surprised then.

When we leased a BEV as a second car the insurance for it was £150 for the year - and that was with zero no claims bonus as up to that point we had only been using only one car.


You did well - we've been quoted £573 a year. That's something like £200 more than our oldish Merc. How on earth can you get £150 - that's less than I've seen for a decade, and we regularly shop around.


That would put your Merc at more than £350!

I haven’t paid over £200 for many years for comprehensive insurance, and up to around five years ago it was less than £100 - and that included business use and parking it on the road near the station for the day whilst I was at work. It only significantly increased when I sold the VW Golf and bought a Fiat 124 Spider.

Out of interest I threw my details into a comparison site for an ID3, which I see is insurance group 29 and is significantly higher than my BEV which is only insurance group 20. However there were still several quotes from big name companies for less than £300.

Arborbridge wrote: Anyhow, the result of all my angst and discussions is that I've ordered a VW ID3 today.


Enjoy.

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Re: Range info please: VW id3 58kw version

#460941

Postby bungeejumper » November 25th, 2021, 6:53 pm

AF62 wrote:I haven’t paid over £200 for many years for comprehensive insurance, and up to around five years ago it was less than £100 - and that included business use and parking it on the road near the station for the day whilst I was at work. It only significantly increased when I sold the VW Golf and bought a Fiat 124 Spider.

In no particular order: Postcode. Profession. Other named drivers. Licence points and no claims history (for all of them). The size of the excess that the policyholder chooses. "Essentials" such as legal cover. Courtesy car in the event of a prang. Multi-vehicle discounts...

....And for me, the fact that I wouldn't touch some insurers with the proverbial disinfected bargepole. I'm in a rock-bottom crime area, 15 years with no claims, car off road at night, positively virginal licence, but I can't get serious insurers to quote under £250 on a pretty average family Toyota. I could find some who'd do the quote for £150, but I wouldn't want to do business with them. :|
Arborbridge wrote: Anyhow, the result of all my angst and discussions is that I've ordered a VW ID3 today.

As above. Congrats, Arb!

BJ

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Re: Range info please: VW id3 58kw version

#461020

Postby Arborbridge » November 26th, 2021, 8:02 am

A correction to the insurance point I raised. The Merc insurance is £286.53 for two drivers with Saga. Retired, low crime area, 9 years NCD, no points on licence etc etc. I know Mrs Arb spends a long time each year looking around for a lower price, so if this is way out, I'd like to know!

Saga quote for the id3 for 10,000 usage £573.76, or 5000 £415.39.

So, double the price of the Merc for 10,000 miles.


Arb.

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Re: Range info please: VW id3 58kw version

#461076

Postby AF62 » November 26th, 2021, 10:16 am

Arborbridge wrote:A correction to the insurance point I raised. The Merc insurance is £286.53 for two drivers with Saga. Retired, low crime area, 9 years NCD, no points on licence etc etc. I know Mrs Arb spends a long time each year looking around for a lower price, so if this is way out, I'd like to know!


Saga - £154.62 - Fiat 124 Spider (insurance group 26), two drivers, retired, low crime area, maximum NCD (whatever that is), no points on licence, 8,000 miles social, domestic & pleasure, etc. And that is their 'guaranteed not to increase for three years' price.

I think Saga may have been 'walking up' your premium.

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Re: Range info please: VW id3 58kw version

#461096

Postby Arborbridge » November 26th, 2021, 11:10 am

AF62 wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:A correction to the insurance point I raised. The Merc insurance is £286.53 for two drivers with Saga. Retired, low crime area, 9 years NCD, no points on licence etc etc. I know Mrs Arb spends a long time each year looking around for a lower price, so if this is way out, I'd like to know!


Saga - £154.62 - Fiat 124 Spider (insurance group 26), two drivers, retired, low crime area, maximum NCD (whatever that is), no points on licence, 8,000 miles social, domestic & pleasure, etc. And that is their 'guaranteed not to increase for three years' price.

I think Saga may have been 'walking up' your premium.


I'll have to ask questions of Mrs Arb at the next management meeting :lol:

We've just renewed with Saga and she claimed they were the cheapest or nearly so. When the id3 comes along, I will do some scouting around myself.

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Re: Range info please: VW id3 58kw version

#461099

Postby Arborbridge » November 26th, 2021, 11:14 am

AF62 wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:A correction to the insurance point I raised. The Merc insurance is £286.53 for two drivers with Saga. Retired, low crime area, 9 years NCD, no points on licence etc etc. I know Mrs Arb spends a long time each year looking around for a lower price, so if this is way out, I'd like to know!


Saga - £154.62 - Fiat 124 Spider (insurance group 26), two drivers, retired, low crime area, maximum NCD (whatever that is), no points on licence, 8,000 miles social, domestic & pleasure, etc. And that is their 'guaranteed not to increase for three years' price.

I think Saga may have been 'walking up' your premium.


Do you have legal expenses insurance and what is your excess? (asks Mrs Arb) Your insurance seems low for such a fast car.

Arb.

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Re: Range info please: VW id3 58kw version

#461167

Postby BobbyD » November 26th, 2021, 1:46 pm

Arborbridge wrote:Anyhow, the result of all my angst and discussions is that I've ordered a VW ID3 today.


Congrats.

bungeejumper wrote:
AF62 wrote:I haven’t paid over £200 for many years for comprehensive insurance, and up to around five years ago it was less than £100 - and that included business use and parking it on the road near the station for the day whilst I was at work. It only significantly increased when I sold the VW Golf and bought a Fiat 124 Spider.

In no particular order: Postcode. Profession. Other named drivers. Licence points and no claims history (for all of them). The size of the excess that the policyholder chooses. "Essentials" such as legal cover. Courtesy car in the event of a prang. Multi-vehicle discounts...


I seem to recall a few years ago somebody was playing around with online quotes and discovered some strange factors which could have quite a large effect on your quote, including your surname.

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Re: Range info please: VW id3 58kw version

#461183

Postby AF62 » November 26th, 2021, 2:28 pm

Arborbridge wrote:
AF62 wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:A correction to the insurance point I raised. The Merc insurance is £286.53 for two drivers with Saga. Retired, low crime area, 9 years NCD, no points on licence etc etc. I know Mrs Arb spends a long time each year looking around for a lower price, so if this is way out, I'd like to know!


Saga - £154.62 - Fiat 124 Spider (insurance group 26), two drivers, retired, low crime area, maximum NCD (whatever that is), no points on licence, 8,000 miles social, domestic & pleasure, etc. And that is their 'guaranteed not to increase for three years' price.

I think Saga may have been 'walking up' your premium.


Do you have legal expenses insurance and what is your excess? (asks Mrs Arb) Your insurance seems low for such a fast car.

Arb.


Yes, £150, and the NCD is protected.

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Re: Range info please: VW id3 58kw version

#461185

Postby bungeejumper » November 26th, 2021, 2:30 pm

BobbyD wrote:I seem to recall a few years ago somebody was playing around with online quotes and discovered some strange factors which could have quite a large effect on your quote, including your surname.

I don't know about surnames, but it certainly used to be the case that having a forename like Duwayne would put pounds on your insurance quote. As I recall, most insurers didn't even try to deny it. :|

This New Statesman report from 2018 referred to islamophobia when Mohameds were (allegedly) charged more than Johns. https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2 ... tionalised . Other names, however, appeared to have been on the companies' higher-risk lists because they tended to turn up most frequently in deprived areas where cars were more likely to be badly maintained and/or recklessly driven. (That's the insurers saying that, not me!)

Either way, the insurers defended themselves by claiming that they were simply data-mining their application lists for factors that might affect their underwriting risks, and that this was perfectly legal. :| There was also the fact (AFAIK), that an insurer can simply refuse to serve you the same way that a pub landlord can. It's possible, I suppose, that the anti-gender-discrimination regulations (etc) of recent years may have changed all that, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

BJ

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Re: Range info please: VW id3 58kw version

#461232

Postby Arborbridge » November 26th, 2021, 4:32 pm

AF62 wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:
AF62 wrote:
Saga - £154.62 - Fiat 124 Spider (insurance group 26), two drivers, retired, low crime area, maximum NCD (whatever that is), no points on licence, 8,000 miles social, domestic & pleasure, etc. And that is their 'guaranteed not to increase for three years' price.

I think Saga may have been 'walking up' your premium.


Do you have legal expenses insurance and what is your excess? (asks Mrs Arb) Your insurance seems low for such a fast car.

Arb.


Yes, £150, and the NCD is protected.


I have found some cheaper quotes now for some equivalent insurance to Saga - the cheapest was M and S at £190. So it seems Mrs Arb didn't do her job thoroughly. (I won't mention it as I'll be made to swap duties).

Thanks for making me think about this, and when the id3 is on the horizon will be the time to phone around, as I've only just renewed.

Arb.


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