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Giles Coran on electric cars

Passion, instruction, buying, care, maintenance and more, any form of vehicle discussion is welcome here
Howard
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Re: Giles Coran on electric cars

#561269

Postby Howard » January 13th, 2023, 11:41 am

9873210 wrote:
BullDog wrote:Indeed. I am guilty of over simplification. Many houses that want to charge an EV or two, run a heat pump, an electric oven, electric shower, washing machine ........ Will need three phase supplies to do so. That's one heck of a problem for just about every street and housing estate in the country.

There is no technical need for three phase at these power levels. Almost all newish US or Canadian homes have 48kW or more service on split phase. More than a few have 96kW without needing three phase. Three phase is needed only if you want to run largish motors without a switching power supply, and nobody would install such a thing these days.

The advantage of increasing the current on single phase is that it can be done incrementally*, as has been done continually since Tesla and Edison, when domestic service was barely able to handle a couple of (incandescent) light bulbs.

* For example splitting distribution circuits instead of replacing all the single phase wiring.


I agree with your comments. We have a heat pump, BEV, electric oven, washing machine, tumble dryer, dishwasher and immersion heater and don't have three phase. Obviously they aren't all on at once. Our energy supplier encourages us to charge the BEV, and use the tumble dryer, washing machine and dishwasher in the middle of the night to even out the load and at 7p per kWh off peak rate we are happy to do so. I guess it is really efficient to use the cabling to the house more effectively, smoothing out the load over 24 hours.

The increase in use of BEVs is happening and like a lot of macro trends the infrastructure will gradually keep up, maybe lagging as it does so.

With deference to those who won't change or can't change to a BEV, there are now a lot of us who have totally reliable BEVs with a reasonable real range of 250+ miles and, with off road parking, incredibly low running costs. And I guess, like me, the majority are delighted with our cars.

We'll probably replace them with even better longer range BEVs next time and indications are that many others will join us, so the charging infrastructure will almost certainly improve as this market segment grows larger.

regards

Howard

PS For anyone considering a BEV it's worth doing research as the real ranges of these cars vary significantly. "Which" is a good source if you can access it with literally thousands of members feeding back real experiences of reliability etc. Anyone reading it (or similar reviews) would avoid a Jaguar iPace BEV like the plague as it has been reported as very unreliable and has a surprisingly low range in real driving conditions.

Lootman
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Re: Giles Coran on electric cars

#561286

Postby Lootman » January 13th, 2023, 1:08 pm

Howard wrote:With deference to those who won't change or can't change to a BEV, there are now a lot of us who have totally reliable BEVs with a reasonable real range of 250+ miles and, with off road parking, incredibly low running costs. And I guess, like me, the majority are delighted with our cars.

I am one of the cynics about EVs. However I have no objection to them existing. As a free market guy I am all about more choice. My problem is with any idea that ICE vehicles might be discontinued at some point, because that is taking away consumer choice.

My own compromise on this issue, since my wife wanted an EV and I refused, is to get a hybrid, which she will mostly drive. I have my own older ICE vehicle, and that won't change. If it actually happens that you can't buy an ICE vehicle after 2030 then I will buy a new one then and keep it forever.

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Re: Giles Coran on electric cars

#561289

Postby Alaric » January 13th, 2023, 1:17 pm

Lootman wrote:. If it actually happens that you can't buy an ICE vehicle after 2030 then I will buy a new one then and keep it forever.


The sale of petrol and number of ICE filling stations could become restricted, either because of goverment diktat or because demand had plummeted.

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Re: Giles Coran on electric cars

#561291

Postby Lootman » January 13th, 2023, 1:21 pm

Alaric wrote:
Lootman wrote:. If it actually happens that you can't buy an ICE vehicle after 2030 then I will buy a new one then and keep it forever.

The sale of petrol and number of ICE filling stations could become restricted, either because of government diktat or because demand had plummeted.

I would have thought that there would still be larger vehicles that will continue to use petrol or diesel e.g. lorries, buses, tractors, construction vehicles and so on. Are there electric motorcycles?

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Re: Giles Coran on electric cars

#561295

Postby BullDog » January 13th, 2023, 1:27 pm

Lootman wrote:
Alaric wrote:
Lootman wrote:. If it actually happens that you can't buy an ICE vehicle after 2030 then I will buy a new one then and keep it forever.

The sale of petrol and number of ICE filling stations could become restricted, either because of government diktat or because demand had plummeted.

I would have thought that there would still be larger vehicles that will continue to use petrol or diesel e.g. lorries, buses, tractors, construction vehicles and so on. Are there electric motorcycles?

Yes there are. But for obvious reasons, if anything, they're crippled even more by inadequate range than cars. There's far more of the short commuting type bikes on the market than anything I would call serious motorcycles. More serious motorcycles do exist but it's a very immature technology really.

9873210
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Re: Giles Coran on electric cars

#561394

Postby 9873210 » January 13th, 2023, 7:25 pm

Lootman wrote:I am one of the cynics about EVs. However I have no objection to them existing. As a free market guy I am all about more choice. My problem is with any idea that ICE vehicles might be discontinued at some point, because that is taking away consumer choice.

Climate change is a known free market failure -- the tragedy of the commons. There is a market solution, which is to tax carbon pollution. However, the "free market" solution favored by most "free market" advocates is to dump their rubbish on somebody else's lawn, which is much cheaper for them than handling it properly.

Lootman
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Re: Giles Coran on electric cars

#561395

Postby Lootman » January 13th, 2023, 7:31 pm

9873210 wrote:
Lootman wrote:I am one of the cynics about EVs. However I have no objection to them existing. As a free market guy I am all about more choice. My problem is with any idea that ICE vehicles might be discontinued at some point, because that is taking away consumer choice.

Climate change is a known free market failure -- the tragedy of the commons. There is a market solution, which is to tax carbon pollution. However, the "free market" solution favored by most "free market" advocates is to dump their rubbish on somebody else's lawn, which is much cheaper for them than handling it properly.

I do not understand your last sentence but for the record, carbon is already taxed. Have you seen petrol prices in the UK compared with the US?

Of course the carbon (and other elements and resources) used in building and replacing the planet's entire stock of vehicles is incalculably large. I am helping the planet a lot more by driving my old V6 around for the next 20 years than I would be by splashing out for a new Tesla.

I do not mind you having an electric car. I would never seek to "ban" that. So don't lecture me on my choices.

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Re: Giles Coran on electric cars

#561399

Postby scotview » January 13th, 2023, 7:57 pm

Lootman wrote:
I do not mind you having an electric car.


We have a BEV (and an ICE for longer travel) but definitely not as a planet saving thingy, it was just a really good deal at the time and a trial to see what a BEV was.

Over all I think the UK is missing a wide open goal in not pointing a finger at China and saying we'll follow your example, over to you. Nowt wrong with that approach in my book. But looking at the latest press, the UK seems to be hell bent on net zero. We'll be in penury.

Funny thing is nearly all the stuff I buy (golf clubs, fishing rods, amplifier/receivers, cameras, smart health watches, etc etc) seems to have a made in China sticker and it's of astonishingly high quality.

It's a funny old world.

Oh yes, and the next car we get will probably be an MG5 BEV estate which has a working V2L system to compliment our soon to be installed battery storage/inverter system, made in China of course !!

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Re: Giles Coran on electric cars

#561476

Postby AF62 » January 14th, 2023, 10:31 am

scotview wrote:and the next car we get will probably be an MG5 BEV estate


Have you actually driven one?

I did recently when looking for a replacement for my current BEV and was very very disappointed. Lots of cost-cutting to achieve the price point - software is poor, missing things like rear wipers, sat nav, reversing cameras, and the use of a single size platform to be used for multiple vehicle models is absurd as it is far too wide for the MG5 - a massive step into the car over the oversized sills into seats which have a massive gap between them and the doors.

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Re: Giles Coran on electric cars

#562577

Postby redsturgeon » January 19th, 2023, 9:57 am

scotview wrote:Over all I think the UK is missing a wide open goal in not pointing a finger at China and saying we'll follow your example, over to you. Nowt wrong with that approach in my book. But looking at the latest press, the UK seems to be hell bent on net zero. We'll be in penury.

Funny thing is nearly all the stuff I buy (golf clubs, fishing rods, amplifier/receivers, cameras, smart health watches, etc etc) seems to have a made in China sticker and it's of astonishingly high quality.

It's a funny old world.

Oh yes, and the next car we get will probably be an MG5 BEV estate which has a working V2L system to compliment our soon to be installed battery storage/inverter system, made in China of course !!




In the UK we have exported most of our heavy manufacturing to the likes of China.

Yes China is the biggest polluter in the world but on a per capita basis not so much.

https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emiss ... er-capita/

John

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Re: Giles Coran on electric cars

#562628

Postby servodude » January 19th, 2023, 12:10 pm

redsturgeon wrote:
scotview wrote:Over all I think the UK is missing a wide open goal in not pointing a finger at China and saying we'll follow your example, over to you. Nowt wrong with that approach in my book. But looking at the latest press, the UK seems to be hell bent on net zero. We'll be in penury.

Funny thing is nearly all the stuff I buy (golf clubs, fishing rods, amplifier/receivers, cameras, smart health watches, etc etc) seems to have a made in China sticker and it's of astonishingly high quality.

It's a funny old world.

Oh yes, and the next car we get will probably be an MG5 BEV estate which has a working V2L system to compliment our soon to be installed battery storage/inverter system, made in China of course !!




In the UK we have exported most of our heavy manufacturing to the likes of China.

Yes China is the biggest polluter in the world but on a per capita basis not so much.

https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emiss ... er-capita/

John


It's also got one of the fastest trajectories towards renewable energy use and loads of rare earth metals.
While other places seem to be content to "what about" China in this conversation they don't seem to be as complacent


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