Automatic emergency braking from today

[bungeejumper]

With one ten year old car on the drive and another 15 year old, I must admit that this one had slipped under my radar.

According to t'interweb, any new car sold in the EU from today must be equipped with automatic emergency braking that can detect a forthcoming collision and brake accordingly. It's been mandatory for all new models since 2022, and since 2019 it hasn't been possible to get a five star NCAP rating without one.

So the systems use either radar or laser sighting? And the new American rules from 2029 specify that they should be effective at speeds of up to 62 mph? (Although I think the EU rules are designed for slower urban speeds?) I gather that a driver can switch it off, and that some do this because of bad experiences with emergency braking happening without good reason.

I'm sure none of this is news to Fools with newer cars than mine. Where do I find out more?

BJ

[Sobraon]

Its worse than that!

Recently traded for a Swedish made vehicle, lovely car but my Lord the automatic "back seat driver" is taking some adjustment to.

Last week I was on my way home turning off a long straight onto a long slip road with no speed change required, doing 60 with no traffic I had the temerity of not indicating (as per my training - who are you indicating to?).

Bad mistake, the thing tried to kill me by wrenching the steering back, braking and heading towards a large oak on the margin between the slip road and the road. Luckily I had a good grip of the wheel and kept it on the slip road. I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader as to what the police report might have said if I had hit the tree.

I came to a (very sweaty) halt with the driver display grandly announcing it had saved me! Yes you can turn the thing off, but its a couple of screens down the driver interface, and it switched on again on restart.

Considering my options....

[88V8]

Its worse than that!....
Considering my options....

The best option is never ever to buy a new car.
Ours, 31, 50 and 61 years old.

V8

[BigB]

I didn't know, and this is interesting.

I ordered/bought a Toyota in UK in 2022 that was only going to be sold until 2024 because of impending EU safety reg changes in mid 2024, that was going to make it uneconomic to modify the car - believed to be related to chassis/body and pedestrian safety.

I wonder if this is part of the same package of changes?

But the idea that all cars since since 2022 have had this autobraking feature is news/puzzling. I'm fairly certain the Toyota doesn't.

We have a 2019 Volvo that clearly has it, and I had a 2017 Alfa that had it - Alfa software was less fussy/intrusive. The adaptive cruise on the volvo works very well, at least the radar bit, the camera bit is a little more tricky.

[BellaHubby]

Its worse than that!
Last week I was on my way home turning off a long straight onto a long slip road with no speed change required, doing 60 with no traffic I had the temerity of not indicating (as per my training - who are you indicating to?).

I drive on the assumption that I am not infallible and despite my best efforts may fail to notice another vehicle, pedestrian, etc, so I always indicate. It's no effort at all

bh

[bungeejumper]

But the idea that all cars since since 2022 have had this autobraking feature is news/puzzling. I'm fairly certain the Toyota doesn't.

Not quite like that. All new models (including presumably facelifts?) since 2022 have had to have it, but unchanged models have been able to carry on as previously. Until now, of course.

BJ

[BigB]

But the idea that all cars since since 2022 have had this autobraking feature is news/puzzling. I'm fairly certain the Toyota doesn't.

Not quite like that. All new models (including presumably facelifts?) since 2022 have had to have it, but unchanged models have been able to carry on as previously. Until now, of course.

BJ

Ah right...

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pressco ... ip_22_4312

[CliffEdge]

Most accidents are caused by driver error but forgetting to indicate was not previously a potentially fatal omission.

[DrFfybes]

But the idea that all cars since since 2022 have had this autobraking feature is news/puzzling. I'm fairly certain the Toyota doesn't.

Our 2016 Toyota Avensis has it. A 2 stage system, that you can adjust the sensitivity and switch it off.

The first is the panicked bleeping as you approach a parked car with one coming the oher way that you know will clear it before you get there - about 4 car lengths back it triggers at circa 15mph (about 3 seconds before 'impact').

The second stage seems to trigger when I try and accelerate into the side of a vehicle, either approaching a roundabout whilst already moving and slotting in behind a circulating vehicle, or once turning right into a supermarket across 2 lanes where I set off towards the side of the oncoming car that was turning left into the store. In those cases the brakes were applied, leaving me sat across a lane with oncoming vehicles that were over 4 seconds away when I started the manoeuvre.

Paul

[y0rkiebar]

My 2023 Clio has it, it's the only safety feature I've turned off.

[servodude]

Most accidents are caused by driver error but forgetting to indicate was not previously a potentially fatal omission.

Pretty sure I've witnessed some near misses caused by forgetting to indicate?

[Lootman]

Its worse than that!....
Considering my options....

The best option is never ever to buy a new car.
Ours, 31, 50 and 61 years old.

V8

Exactly. Ours aren't as old as yours but I am not remotely interested in having a new car for reasons like this. A fortiori I am never getting an EV either.

[Sobraon]

@bh

Indicating, I knew that would be controversial. I was taught by an advanced police driver many years ago, and I am married to a retired one. I am still admonished for indicating when there is no one to indicate to but I understand your point - as it seems so do modern vehicles!

[Urbandreamer]

Most accidents are caused by driver error but forgetting to indicate was not previously a potentially fatal omission.

Untrue. My child was almost killed by someone failing to indicate.
We were crossing a road at a junction. I watched a car traveling as if it were to cross the junction quite fast.
Too fast to turn safely.
No indicator.
We started crossing.

Que screech of brakes. Car pulled up with an emergency stop. "Are you suicidal"?
NO! How was I to know that you intended to turn? Do you think all pedestrians are telepathic?

The highway code uses the phrase "other road users", NOT other drivers.

Of course in other countries it would have been my fault as crossing anywhere without pedestrian lights would be jay-walking.

Returning to automatic emergency braking and turning the system off.

The systems tend to be optical and can be affected by bad weather. Particularly in the case of the i3, because of poor advice. On i3's with such a system the windscreen wiper is actually some 50mm longer to sweep over the camera/sensor. However it is often claimed to be the SAME size as fitted to i3's without the feature..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujnRhsaEvac

[Leothebear]

I find even ABS braking makes me feel very uncomfortable when it cuts in. I'll avoid any feature that will give control of the car to an algorithm. My car is 11 years old and has every feature I want. I'm happy to adjust my own seat, apply the hand brake, close the rear door, switch on the wipers and lights, apply the brakes when I see fit and steer it myself.

The more electronic gizmos on a car the more there is to go wrong. With driving control involved a malfunction could be lethal.

[BellaHubby]

I find even ABS braking makes me feel very uncomfortable when it cuts in. I'll avoid any feature that will give control of the car to an algorithm. My car is 11 years old and has every feature I want. I'm happy to adjust my own seat, apply the hand brake, close the rear door, switch on the wipers and lights, apply the brakes when I see fit and steer it myself.

The more electronic gizmos on a car the more there is to go wrong. With driving control involved a malfunction could be lethal.

For sure a malfunction could be lethal, but on-balance a human malfunction is probably more likely and just as lethal. ABS is on just about every car because in an emergency, a human just hits the brakes hard, locks the wheels and loses control. ABS does cause a lot of judder because it's just on the edge of locking the wheels, but not quite, so the driver has the option of steering the car, which can't be done if the wheels are locked. I'm sure a really expert driver can replicate ABS manually, but none of us normal drivers are as good as we think.

I agree with you on non-safety, unnecessary electronic gizmos such as touchscreens. When they go wrong, they are more costly to repair, and I wonder how long spares for touchscreens etc will be available.

bh

[9873210]

I find even ABS braking makes me feel very uncomfortable when it cuts in.

It should. It is telling you that you have been driving very badly indeed and should seriously consider surrendering your license.

[9873210]

... doing 60 with no traffic I had the temerity of not indicating (as per my training - who are you indicating to?).

The people you did not see are in far more need of the indication than the people you did see.

[Leothebear]

I find even ABS braking makes me feel very uncomfortable when it cuts in.

It should. It is telling you that you have been driving very badly indeed and should seriously consider surrendering your license.

LOL ! Oh very good.

[88V8]

I am still admonished for indicating when there is no one to indicate to ...

I am ticked off by my wife for the same reason but wth.

What winds me up is people who do not indicate on roundabouts.. I am supposed to guess whether they are going to turn off, go round... it winds me up less if I am driving my old Land Rover as they tend to stop when our paths cross.

V8