VW, BEV, Privacy

[GrahamPlatt]

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/12/wh ... 000-vw-evs

We know where you’ve been.

Couldn’t decide whether to drop this into Electric vehicle endeavours or on the computing forum.

[Urbandreamer]

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/12/whistleblower-finds-unencrypted-location-data-for-800000-vw-evs

We know where you’ve been.

Couldn’t decide whether to drop this into Electric vehicle endeavours or on the computing forum.

It's not really EV related, but new car and privacy related.
Thanks for drawing it to our attention.

[9873210]

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/12/whistleblower-finds-unencrypted-location-data-for-800000-vw-evs

What an awful article. The "security hole" is not that the data was unencrypted, it is that the data exists.

There was a time the Germans had learned from recent history what an awful idea it is to record everything because the "legitimate" users could be the most appalling people imaginable. Those who no longer learn from history will be doomed to repeat it.

[Redmires]

What would happen if the SIM card* was disabled in a modern car ? Would it stop functioning ?

*I take it that the cars have SIM cards to allow it to communicate with the home base

[Urbandreamer]

What would happen if the SIM card* was disabled in a modern car ? Would it stop functioning ?

*I take it that the cars have SIM cards to allow it to communicate with the home base

There are multiple reasons, but yes to communicate with home base. A good example is when the car communicates that G forces are such that the air bags have deployed. It is not unknown in such circumstances for the emergency services to be advised.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-tech/ ... -explained

Car makers such as BMW, Vauxhall, Volvo and PSA Peugeot Citroen have already offered their own SOS systems, where occupants can either call for emergency help or the vehicle does it automatically if the electronic safety devices are activated,

[Arborbridge]

On a sort of related subject: by coincidence I woke this morning thinking about car number plate cloning.

This is becoming an increasingly pesky fraud, and I was just wondering if the fact that VW and others know exactly where my car is at a given time would help in a defence against being "framed" for parking violations.
VW probably wouldn't help, claiming "privacy" or would charge enormous amounts to help - but if your phone and your car say one had been nowhere near the said traffic offence, it ought to be convincing enough.

Arb.

[Lootman]

What would happen if the SIM card* was disabled in a modern car ? Would it stop functioning ?

*I take it that the cars have SIM cards to allow it to communicate with the home base

There are multiple reasons, but yes to communicate with home base. A good example is when the car communicates that G forces are such that the air bags have deployed. It is not unknown in such circumstances for the emergency services to be advised.

Yes but the question also asked if disabling or jamming that communication system would prevent the vehicle from otherwise operating normally?

Luckily my vehicle has no such communication function. But if it did then i would want to be able to switch it off, either via an on/off switch or by improvisation.

[Urbandreamer]

There are multiple reasons, but yes to communicate with home base. A good example is when the car communicates that G forces are such that the air bags have deployed. It is not unknown in such circumstances for the emergency services to be advised.

Yes but the question also asked if disabling or jamming that communication system would prevent the vehicle from otherwise operating normally?

Luckily my vehicle has no such communication function. But if it did then i would want to be able to switch it off, either via an on/off switch or by improvisation.

As far as I know, it doesn't. However how you would/could disable it and what you would lose by doing so, I can't answer.

For example, and this is specific to my car. I can turn the heating on in my car, I get details of how much energy it has used in a spreadsheet. Useful for picking a electricity tariff. I can control when the car will or won't charge and I can find the car on a map. All from my phone.

GPS often has traffic information. How do you think that it gets that info? Often via bluetooth via a mobile phone. So no more private than the car satnav doing the same.

Other EV's may direct you to a different charger, if they know that your intended charger is very busy. This was reported recently by a Tesla driver.

There ARE privacy issues. There are also advantages.

I presume that you use a burner phone.

[Lootman]

Yes but the question also asked if disabling or jamming that communication system would prevent the vehicle from otherwise operating normally?

Luckily my vehicle has no such communication function. But if it did then i would want to be able to switch it off, either via an on/off switch or by improvisation.

As far as I know, it doesn't. However how you would/could disable it and what you would lose by doing so, I can't answer.

For example, and this is specific to my car. I can turn the heating on in my car, I get details of how much energy it has used in a spreadsheet. Useful for picking a electricity tariff. I can control when the car will or won't charge and I can find the car on a map. All from my phone.

GPS often has traffic information. How do you think that it gets that info? Often via bluetooth via a mobile phone. So no more private than the car satnav doing the same.

Other EV's may direct you to a different charger, if they know that your intended charger is very busy. This was reported recently by a Tesla driver.

There ARE privacy issues. There are also advantages.

I presume that you use a burner phone.

It is trivially easy to switch off a mobile phone. Disabling a car's GPS transmissions may be harder but I really do not know as I have never had a car with satnav, bluetooth or any communication capability.

[DrFfybes]

There are multiple reasons, but yes to communicate with home base. A good example is when the car communicates that G forces are such that the air bags have deployed. It is not unknown in such circumstances for the emergency services to be advised.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-tech/ ... -explained

Car makers such as BMW, Vauxhall, Volvo and PSA Peugeot Citroen have already offered their own SOS systems, where occupants can either call for emergency help or the vehicle does it automatically if the electronic safety devices are activated,

That is fine, laudible even, but by no stretch of the imagination does it require the manufacturer to continuously log, download, and store historical location data.

Paul

[Urbandreamer]

There are multiple reasons, but yes to communicate with home base. A good example is when the car communicates that G forces are such that the air bags have deployed. It is not unknown in such circumstances for the emergency services to be advised.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-tech/ ... -explained

That is fine, laudible even, but by no stretch of the imagination does it require the manufacturer to continuously log, download, and store historical location data.

Paul

You will find me in total agreement. I certainly think that, like the history of phone location, you should be allowed and encouraged to delete it or turn it off.

[Lootman]

by no stretch of the imagination does it require the manufacturer to continuously log, download, and store historical location data.

You will find me in total agreement. I certainly think that, like the history of phone location, you should be allowed and encouraged to delete it or turn it off.

Is it possible that the authorities in some jurisdictions require these companies to retain data on your whereabouts? After all such information is used in police investigations and other forms of legal discovery?

But then all the more reason to be able to switch such devices off at the source.

[Urbandreamer]

You will find me in total agreement. I certainly think that, like the history of phone location, you should be allowed and encouraged to delete it or turn it off.

Is it possible that the authorities in some jurisdictions require these companies to retain data on your whereabouts? After all such information is used in police investigations and other forms of legal discovery?

But then all the more reason to be able to switch such devices off at the source.

As I said, there are advantages. However if I wanted to turn such off in my car.

To change the privacy settings in your BMW with Operating System 7, select the following in BMW iDrive: "CAR" > "Settings" > "General settings" > "Privacy". You can change the following settings individually: "All services incl. analysis", "All vehicle services", "Initially activated services", "No service", "Individual selection".

https://faq.bmw.co.uk/s/article/BMW-iDr ... uage=en_GB