Electric cars - BBC

[JohnB]

The government promised all chargers would accept credit cards back in 2020. Only problem it was Failing Grayling who made the promise. And the Jan 23 https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ction-plan does not mention credit cards. But a competent government could sort this situation out.

[AF62]

Are we to take it that the Consumers Association don't know what they're talking about?

Whenever I have read something from the Consumers Association about a subject I know something about then they have invariably been wrong.

As for this statistic, their broad statement makes no breakdown of the proportion of rapid chargers that require an app and don't take contactless, the sort of charger that someone on a journey will be using.

Just take a look at one of the BEV charging maps such as http://www.zap-map.com and filter for rapid chargers (>50kW) and then toggle between payment by contactless and not - there is very little difference.

All the big companies like Grideserve and InstaVolt are installing contactless payment rapid chargers because that is how the public want to use them.

And I have a spare key anyway.

And is it kept in a magnetic box 'hidden' somewhere on the car?

[Lootman]

And I have a spare key anyway.

And is it kept in a magnetic box 'hidden' somewhere on the car?

No but it will be with my wife or in my sports bag or wherever make sense.

I think I have needed it once in 40 years.

[AF62]

And is it kept in a magnetic box 'hidden' somewhere on the car?

No but it will be with my wife or in my sports bag or wherever make sense.

So not much use if your wife or your sports bag isn't with you. Whereas phone unlocking would allow your wife to send her spare 'key' as a text message to the phone of a trusted person you were with.

[Lootman]

No but it will be with my wife or in my sports bag or wherever make sense.

So not much use if your wife or your sports bag isn't with you. Whereas phone unlocking would allow your wife to send her spare 'key' as a text message to the phone of a trusted person you were with.

So you have to have someone with you at all times? Can you tell that you have completely failed to convince me?

Anyone who tries this hard to cheerlead for BEVs gives the impression that they know they made a mistake spending too much on one but cannot admit it to themselves or others.

Maybe time to give those arms and pom-poms a rest.

[AF62]

So not much use if your wife or your sports bag isn't with you. Whereas phone unlocking would allow your wife to send her spare 'key' as a text message to the phone of a trusted person you were with.

So you have to have someone with you at all times?

??? It is you that needs to have someone - your wife, or something - your sports bag, with you at all times in case you have lost your key.

Can you tell that you have completely failed to convince me?

Because no matter the benefit, if it involves an 'evil' mobile phone then you are not interested.

Anyone who tries this hard to cheerlead for BEVs gives the impression that they know they made a mistake spending too much on one but cannot admit it to themselves or others.

Maybe time to give those arms and pom-poms a rest.

And anyone who tries this hard to find fault with BEVs (and all other forms of modern technology) gives the impression that they really want to be living back in the past.

Maybe time to give up reading about what is happening now, and stick to history books.

[Lootman]

Can you tell that you have completely failed to convince me?

Because no matter the benefit, if it involves an 'evil' mobile phone then you are not interested.

There is no proven tangible benefit here. Just downside.

I do not think that mobile phones are "evil". I have one, after all. More than one in fact. I just believe in not exposing myself to needless risks, and am suspect of any over-dependence on tech. I have known a few people who have lost their phones and they went into a blind panic because they could not function at all without it. It was quite funny in fact.

[AF62]

Because no matter the benefit, if it involves an 'evil' mobile phone then you are not interested.

There is no proven tangible benefit here. Just downside.

I do not think that mobile phones are "evil". I have one, after all. More than one in fact. I just believe in not exposing myself to needless risks, and am suspect of any over-dependence on tech. I have known a few people who have lost their phones and they went into a blind panic because they could not function at all without it. It was quite funny in fact.

There are benefits, an awful lot of benefits, but no matter what they are you will always perceive that a risk exists and so will dismiss it.

[Lootman]

There is no proven tangible benefit here. Just downside.

I do not think that mobile phones are "evil". I have one, after all. More than one in fact. I just believe in not exposing myself to needless risks, and am suspect of any over-dependence on tech. I have known a few people who have lost their phones and they went into a blind panic because they could not function at all without it. It was quite funny in fact.

There are benefits, an awful lot of benefits

You have not proven that at all.

Digressing a bit, I stay at Hilton Hotels a lot, as I have Diamond status with them. They always offer me a Digital Key, which basically means my phone becomes my room door key.

You would probably think that is great. But I always refuse it as I do not want to have to remember to take my phone with me every time I leave the room. But a room key card is tiny and light, and I always gets two, so that one can stay in my pocket all the time. And if I go down to the pool I can leave my phone in the room safe.

I like things simple and safe.

[JohnB]

It will soon be impossible to pay for parking without a phone, and again the market has many incompatible apps. And what if your fuel payment triggers a confirmation by text system. Providers of these services only care about reduced costs, reduced risk, and the government regulators don't really care about providing universal solutions or worry about edge case users.

Its going to be very hard to be a Luddite soon.

[BullDog]

It will soon be impossible to pay for parking without a phone, and again the market has many incompatible apps. And what if your fuel payment triggers a confirmation by text system. Providers of these services only care about reduced costs, reduced risk, and the government regulators don't really care about providing universal solutions or worry about edge case users.

Its going to be very hard to be a Luddite soon.

It already is. It's a few years ago now, more than three I think. Interactive Investor told me I had to register a mobile phone number with them. I told them I didn't have a mobile phone. The reply was that II would have to refuse access to my account until I got one. Just a small example and not even recent.

Another example is that for elderly parents who have no photo ID and no mobile phone it's really essential to have a lasting power of attorney in place for a relative to do any administrative stuff. Without photo ID and a mobile phone it's almost impossible to get anything done.

[Howard]

Or you might lave lost, dropped, or broken your car keys, so you would be in a worse position than having a car that gives you an *option* of unlocking and starting with a phone.

You cannot really break a metal key, although I suppose you could bend it if you really tried. And I have a spare key anyway. Far more can go wrong with a device than a piece of metal.

I am much more likely to lose or drop a phone because it gets used much more. But my keys rarely leave my pocket.

And again, it is not unusual for me to choose to not have my phone with me if, say, going for a swim or popping out to the shops. I want that option.

It is rare for me to ever put myself in a situation where I cannot function without a working phone.

There there Grandad.

You’ve been asleep and had a bad dream about that nasty Mr Musk.

We're going to give you a sedative now and when you wake up we’ll have one of those nice old fashioned bath chairs for you and you can pedal round the garden.....

Sorry, I couldn't resist

Howard

[Lootman]

It will soon be impossible to pay for parking without a phone, and again the market has many incompatible apps. And what if your fuel payment triggers a confirmation by text system. Providers of these services only care about reduced costs, reduced risk, and the government regulators don't really care about providing universal solutions or worry about edge case users.

Its going to be very hard to be a Luddite soon.

It already is. It's a few tears ago now, more than three I think. Interactive Investor told me I had to register a mobile phone number with them. I told them I didn't have a mobile phone. The reply was that II would have to refuse access to my account until I got one. Just a small example and not even recent.

Another example is that for elderly parents who have no photo ID and no mobile phone it's really essential to have a lasting power of attorney in place for a relative to do any administrative stuff. Without photo ID and a mobile phone it's almost impossible to get anything done.

ii presumably only need that for 2FA. Many landline phones can display texts now but that won't help if you are elsewhere.

For parking I have only ever needed a phone once, for an on-street parking meter in Edinburgh. I parked in a multi-story car park instead where they took cash!

[BullDog]

It already is. It's a few tears ago now, more than three I think. Interactive Investor told me I had to register a mobile phone number with them. I told them I didn't have a mobile phone. The reply was that II would have to refuse access to my account until I got one. Just a small example and not even recent.

Another example is that for elderly parents who have no photo ID and no mobile phone it's really essential to have a lasting power of attorney in place for a relative to do any administrative stuff. Without photo ID and a mobile phone it's almost impossible to get anything done.

ii presumably only need that for 2FA. Many landline phones can display texts now but that won't help if you are elsewhere.

For parking I have only ever needed a phone once, for an on-street parking meter in Edinburgh. I parked in a multi-story car park instead where they took cash!

Yes and I was working abroad for several years. Whilst at all times maintaining UK bank account etc.... I didn't really want them to work out that I was outside the UK most of the year.

[bungeejumper]

Its going to be very hard to be a Luddite soon.

It already is. It's a few years ago now, more than three I think. Interactive Investor told me I had to register a mobile phone number with them. I told them I didn't have a mobile phone. The reply was that II would have to refuse access to my account until I got one. Just a small example and not even recent.

It doesn't always work even if you do have a mobile. A couple of years ago, while on holiday, I got an urgent surgical appointment from my local hospital that was texted to my mobile. The fact that we didn't have any reception around those parts didn't seem to have figured as a possibility with the NHS. I missed the appointment and got a proper telling-off.

But then, touchscreens and I are not really made for each other at the best of times. I have a condition known as zombie fingers - very dry or calloused fingertips that won't work a phone unless I lick them first. (Guitarists often get them, and carpenters apparently.) You'll see me out and about, desperately trying to swipe an incoming phone call, and quite often failing. Mobile parking apps are a perpetual nightmare because the price of failure is so high. (You get fined.)

Imagine, therefore, my chances of being able to communicate effectively with a touchscreen in my car? I can just about persuade the sound system in my car to obey me at the third or fourth desperate stab, perhaps by licking my fingers, but that's not exactly something I'd want to be doing at 60 mph. (Not least because it would scare everybody witless.) Nor would I feel very confident about driving any car where using the touchscreen was a non-negotiable part of using the controls.

So that's me marginalised, then? Ho hum, I suppose I'll have to get used to it?

BJ

[BullDog]

It already is. It's a few years ago now, more than three I think. Interactive Investor told me I had to register a mobile phone number with them. I told them I didn't have a mobile phone. The reply was that II would have to refuse access to my account until I got one. Just a small example and not even recent.

It doesn't always work even if you do have a mobile. A couple of years ago, while on holiday, I got an urgent surgical appointment from my local hospital that was texted to my mobile. The fact that we didn't have any reception around those parts didn't seem to have figured as a possibility with the NHS. I missed the appointment and got a proper telling-off.

But then, touchscreens and I are not really made for each other at the best of times. I have a condition known as zombie fingers - very dry or calloused fingertips that won't work a phone unless I lick them first. (Guitarists often get them, and carpenters apparently.) You'll see me out and about, desperately trying to swipe an incoming phone call, and quite often failing. Mobile parking apps are a perpetual nightmare because the price of failure is so high. (You get fined.)

Imagine, therefore, my chances of being able to communicate effectively with a touchscreen in my car? I can just about persuade the sound system in my car to obey me at the third or fourth desperate stab, perhaps by licking my fingers, but that's not exactly something I'd want to be doing at 60 mph. (Not least because it would scare everybody witless.) Nor would I feel very confident about driving any car where using the touchscreen was a non-negotiable part of using the controls.

So that's me marginalised, then? Ho hum, I suppose I'll have to get used to it?

BJ

Funny thing is, I have found that the large touch screens used now in fast food outlets do not respond when I touch them. The touch screens are of course replacing staff taking an order. More than once I've had to walk out and go somewhere else because I can't operate the touch screen and there's no staff available to take my order.

Yet I don't have a problem with mobile phones or tablet touch screens. Weird.

[Lootman]

It doesn't always work even if you do have a mobile. A couple of years ago, while on holiday, I got an urgent surgical appointment from my local hospital that was texted to my mobile. The fact that we didn't have any reception around those parts didn't seem to have figured as a possibility with the NHS. I missed the appointment and got a proper telling-off.

But then, touchscreens and I are not really made for each other at the best of times. I have a condition known as zombie fingers - very dry or calloused fingertips that won't work a phone unless I lick them first. (Guitarists often get them, and carpenters apparently.) You'll see me out and about, desperately trying to swipe an incoming phone call, and quite often failing. Mobile parking apps are a perpetual nightmare because the price of failure is so high. (You get fined.)

Imagine, therefore, my chances of being able to communicate effectively with a touchscreen in my car? I can just about persuade the sound system in my car to obey me at the third or fourth desperate stab, perhaps by licking my fingers, but that's not exactly something I'd want to be doing at 60 mph. (Not least because it would scare everybody witless.) Nor would I feel very confident about driving any car where using the touchscreen was a non-negotiable part of using the controls.

So that's me marginalised, then? Ho hum, I suppose I'll have to get used to it?

Funny thing is, I have found that the large touch screens used now in fast food outlets do not respond when I touch them. The touch screens are of course replacing staff taking an order. More than once I've had to walk out and go somewhere else because I can't operate the touch screen and there's no staff available to take my order.

Yet I don't have a problem with mobile phones or tablet touch screens. Weird.

The real theme here is that governments, businesses and other entities make self-serving decisions that are based on false assumptions like that everyone has a smart phone, that everyone is online all the time, that everyone can get a signal 24/7, that everyone wants to do everything for themselves, that everyone is infatuated and competent with tech, and so on.

In that context the government trying to foist BEVs onto us all regardless of cost, common sense, risk or practicality is but just one example.

[bungeejumper]

Funny thing is, I have found that the large touch screens used now in fast food outlets do not respond when I touch them. The touch screens are of course replacing staff taking an order. More than once I've had to walk out and go somewhere else because I can't operate the touch screen and there's no staff available to take my order.

Yet I don't have a problem with mobile phones or tablet touch screens. Weird.

Brace yourself. It's probably other people's grease on the take-away's touchscreen. Whatever you do, [b]do not[/b] lick your finger and try again....

I can't speak for take-aways because it's been thirty years since I bought one, up in Merseyland. (Memories of the resulting D & V are still with me.) Sigh, another reason why I'm not fit for survival in the 21st century.

BJ

[BullDog]

Funny thing is, I have found that the large touch screens used now in fast food outlets do not respond when I touch them. The touch screens are of course replacing staff taking an order. More than once I've had to walk out and go somewhere else because I can't operate the touch screen and there's no staff available to take my order.

Yet I don't have a problem with mobile phones or tablet touch screens. Weird.

Brace yourself. It's probably other people's grease on the take-away's touchscreen. Whatever you do, [b]do not[/b] lick your finger and try again....

I can't speak for take-aways because it's been thirty years since I bought one, up in Merseyland. (Memories of the resulting D & V are still with me.) Sigh, another reason why I'm not fit for survival in the 21st century.

BJ

Thanks. I don’t think it's 100% that actually. If I've been in a fast food outlet with another person, they don't have the problem with the touch screens. Only me. Very odd.

[scotview]

I get the impression, from this thread, that some folkes like EVs and some loath them. We have a BEV and an ICE, both have their good points and bad.....but they just work, within their operating parameters.

The debate so far on this thread has been a mirror image of Brexit discussions on TLF. Given the chance remain or leave could work, just like BEV or ICE vehicles can work.

Folkes here just take an opinion and adhere to it come hell or high water. It's just great to take an unbiased view and look at the dogmatic, rigid and unwavering arguments on these threads. Human nature I suppose.