The Lemon Fool

swill453 wrote:

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:

Lootman wrote:Presumably you support this. I do. The US has never had this requirement to my knowledge.

"In the UK it is a legal requirement to display a licence or numberplate on the front of a vehicle. We believe this is an outdated and now unnecessary requirement."

How will the neighbours know you've just spent £40K on a new car

Isn't it something to do with ANPR and speeding issues?

Speed camera vans can zap either the front or back of the car, and obviously need to see the number plate as proof.

So the chances of front number plates being abolished are zero.

Maybe but only 31 of the 50 US states require a front license plate and I am fairly sure they all have camera enforcement for at least some moving violations.This includes some large states such as Florida, Arizona, Georgia, Michigan and Pennsylvania.

That said they do require a clear face picture as well, which the UK government has managed to weasel itself out of.

Lootman wrote:Maybe but only 31 of the 50 US states require a front license plate and I am fairly sure they all have camera enforcement for at least some moving violations.This includes some large states such as Florida, Arizona, Georgia, Michigan and Pennsylvania.

Not sure of the relevance of that.

Scott.

swill453 wrote:

Lootman wrote:Maybe but only 31 of the 50 US states require a front license plate and I am fairly sure they all have camera enforcement for at least some moving violations.This includes some large states such as Florida, Arizona, Georgia, Michigan and Pennsylvania.

Not sure of the relevance of that.

It shows that there can be enforcement of camera citations even without a front license plate, which you appeared to be saying is not possible. As you said yourself, a rear plate can be used to identify the vehicle. Facial recognition is another possibility. And GPS. And so on.

Lootman wrote:It shows that there can be enforcement of camera citations even without a front license plate, which you appeared to be saying is not possible.

No, I didn't. I said it is currently used.

As you said yourself, a rear plate can be used to identify the vehicle.

Not if the operator and/or camera is looking only at oncoming traffic.

Scott.

swill453 wrote:

Lootman wrote:It shows that there can be enforcement of camera citations even without a front license plate, which you appeared to be saying is not possible.

No, I didn't. I said it is currently used.

As you said yourself, a rear plate can be used to identify the vehicle.

Not if the operator and/or camera is looking only at oncoming traffic.

You claimed that front plates would never go away because they are needed for camera citations. But other jurisdictions manage it so there is a flaw in that reasoning.

But yes, one idea would be to capture images of both the front and rear of the vehicle.

Lootman wrote:You claimed that front plates would never go away because they are needed for camera citations. But other jurisdictions manage it so there is a flaw in that reasoning.

Wrong again. I stated that the current enforcement of speed limits in the UK makes use of the front number plate, so an attempt to remove the requirement for one will fail. The authorities will simply refuse on grounds of "safety".

I make no claims that it would be impossible to come up with enforcement methods that don't use the front number plate.

Scott.

Lootman wrote:

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:

Mike4 wrote:

That's extra along with a roof

Already in the car park in the sin bin

Presumably you support this. I do. The US has never had this requirement to my knowledge.

"In the UK it is a legal requirement to display a licence or numberplate on the front of a vehicle. We believe this is an outdated and now unnecessary requirement."

https://petition.parliament.uk/archived ... o%20people.

The law relating to front number plates (licence plates?) varies from state to state. Some do require them, others don't

Boy racers over here have pre-empted a change in the UK law for several years

swill453 wrote:

Lootman wrote:You claimed that front plates would never go away because they are needed for camera citations. But other jurisdictions manage it so there is a flaw in that reasoning.

Wrong again. I stated that the current enforcement of speed limits in the UK makes use of the front number plate, so an attempt to remove the requirement for one will fail. The authorities will simply refuse on grounds of "safety".

I make no claims that it would be impossible to come up with enforcement methods that don't use the front number plate.

But you did state that "the chances of front number plates being abolished are zero". And since you also admit that there are other ways to enforce camera citations without a front plate, as other jurisdictions do, clearly zero is not the right number. The fact that parliament considered removing the requirement for them also indicates that the correct number is non-zero.

I sometimes think you disagree with me just for the sake of it, such is the extent that you do it.

staffordian wrote:Boy racers over here have pre-empted a change in the UK law for several years

Yes, maybe if everyone did what AIY does, then there would not be much the authorities could do about it.

Lootman wrote:I sometimes think you disagree with me just for the sake of it, such is the extent that you do it.

I initially made my point to AsleepInYorkshire. Any "disagreement" arose when you misrepresented what I said.

Scott.

swill453 wrote:

Lootman wrote:I sometimes think you disagree with me just for the sake of it, such is the extent that you do it.

I initially made my point to AsleepInYorkshire. Any "disagreement" arose when you misrepresented what I said.

Not surprisingly I do not believe that I misrepresented anything you said. Rather I pointed out a contradiction between two things you said.

I've counted back 14 posts, and not one of them has any relevance to the original question, why do people highjack threads in this way? It annoys me when this happens to one of my posts.

dp

Lootman wrote:

swill453 wrote:

Lootman wrote:I sometimes think you disagree with me just for the sake of it, such is the extent that you do it.

I initially made my point to AsleepInYorkshire. Any "disagreement" arose when you misrepresented what I said.

Not surprisingly I do not believe that I misrepresented anything you said. Rather I pointed out a contradiction between two things you said.

Am I allowed to point out that you are both well respected Fools?

A position I am still applying for.

Aiy

scottnsilky wrote:I've counted back 14 posts, and not one of them has any relevance to the original question, why do people highjack threads in this way? It annoys me when this happens to one of my posts.

dp

But this is not one of your posts!

The site admin are quite keen on keeping threads on topic, but the population of posters tends to drift off topic once it becomes clear the OP's question has been answered or the OP is not taking part in the discussion.

If it troubles you that deeply that discussion of someone else's question has veered off topic, report the offending posts. The admin here often ask for this to happen as they don't all read every post on every board, checking them all for 100% compliance.

And just for the record, your post is the most off topic in this thread so far.

Mike4 wrote:

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:

Lootman wrote:Presumably you support this. I do. The US has never had this requirement to my knowledge.

"In the UK it is a legal requirement to display a licence or numberplate on the front of a vehicle. We believe this is an outdated and now unnecessary requirement."

How will the neighbours know you've just spent £40K on a new car

Isn't it something to do with ANPR and speeding issues?

AiY

Surely it is more to do with accidents caused by people driving backwards along the M4....

I note that motorcycles are not required to have front number plates. Maybe because they can't be driven backwards.

Possibly more because when they did being hit by one was similar to how a tin feels when being opened, they sat in line with the direction of travel so could only be read from the side, an ouch moment if you were hit by one. Here is one: https://bellacorse.com/wp-content/uploa ... ject61.jpg

Regarding a petrol car I doubt I would buy new but could be tempted to stow away in a garage something in great condition with low mileage that my grandchildren (if I get any) could sell to a motoring museum in 2100 when most of the others of its period have gone under whatever scrappage scheme will no doubt get introduced to wean us away from petrol. Meantime I will need to write something into my will to ensure my 1987 Scimitar SS1 1600 has to be kept and maintained by my children forever if they want to inherit anything else of mine. Here is one like mine but not mine, just same colour.

https://www.bcs-automotive.co.uk/wp-con ... aliper.jpg

Charlottesquare wrote:Regarding a petrol car I doubt I would buy new but could be tempted to stow away in a garage something in great condition with low mileage that my grandchildren (if I get any) could sell to a motoring museum in 2100 when most of the others of its period have gone under whatever scrappage scheme will no doubt get introduced to wean us away from petrol. Meantime I will need to write something into my will to ensure my 1987 Scimitar SS1 1600 has to be kept and maintained by my children forever if they want to inherit anything else of mine. Here is one like mine but not mine, just same colour.

https://www.bcs-automotive.co.uk/wp-con ... aliper.jpg

Missed out on the colour there

AiY

Thanks everyone for a very useful and educational set of replies.

Having minimal interest in cars I was relieved to feel that the consensus fell in line with my own thoughts, i.e buy a petrol engine car.

Lootman wrote:

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:

Mike4 wrote:

That's extra along with a roof

Already in the car park in the sin bin

Presumably you support this. I do. The US has never had this requirement to my knowledge.

"In the UK it is a legal requirement to display a licence or numberplate on the front of a vehicle. We believe this is an outdated and now unnecessary requirement."

https://petition.parliament.uk/archived ... o%20people.

19 states do not require a front number plate while 31 require both front and rear.

John

.

in answer to OP .

yes - definitely petrol - definitely not diesel , i dont want to drag around a mobile paraffin refinery .

automatic - definitely .

if it is to be new , then a hybrid is the only option now - and they are all automatics.

pure EV will not suit me as i tow a small caravan so the range would be inadequate .

sadly there is no fuel advantage with a hybrid , but they do have a serious pollution advantage in densely populated areas.

As there seems a lot of ignorance about how hybrids work, I add a few more words to my post.
When you run a petrol (or diesel car), especially in an urban area, you spend a lot of time slowing down and braking. e.g coming to a stop at traffic lights and then accelerating away when the lights change to green. The hybrid stores the energy from slowing down in the battery so it can be used in the acceleration phase. Otherwise that energy is lost as heat. That is why we get about 60mpg with our Auris 1.8l hybrid instead of about 40mpg with the petrol-only version.
The car has an electric motor as well as a petrol motor and the electronic clutch syncs both so that either or both can drive the wheels with a seamless and undetectable change. As my wife and I have driven automatic for 30 years, the automatic feature is a bonus for us.

The point I made also about hybrids is that they use energy which would otherwise be wasted - it is free. The electricity does not come from the grid. Electric cars get all their energy from the grid, so since at present it is mostly not green energy, they are helping as much with getting to zero emissions as the current hype suggests. And they will require a lot more grid capacity, which is yet to be built.