Elderly relative driving

[chas49]

He has been passed as medically fit by the specialist and his gp.

It seems to me that the only avenue you have is to persuade him that it might be better (in your opinion) for him not to drive. I can't see why DVLA would take any notice of a report that he isn't fit since they have just returned his licence on the basis that he is fit and the appropriate doctors agree.

Much of the debate in this thread has been more about general principles. None of us can tell you if your relative is safe to drive. It appears that the DVLA and the doctors think he is. If you have new evidence which DVLA and/or the doctors didn't have, then report it. Otherwise it's a matter of friendly discussion.

[Gerry557]

I know the topic is mainly about an elderly driver but I've seen what would be called youngsters that were not what I would call safe.

You wouldn't have much luck convincing them though. Most are over confident. Sometimes one has to make mistakes to learn something, whilst everyone else hopes it just minor mistakes.

Good luck with your persuasion.

[bungeejumper]

We had a near-neighbour in her late eighties. Formerly a society beauty, married to a prestigious academic(who didn't drive). She was gradually losing it as she got older, but somehow she kept her licence. And she drove a bright red Italian sports car.

You'd see her approaching the T junction at the end of the road. She'd stop............

Look slowly left..............

Look slowly right...........

Slowly left again..............

And then........

She'd floor it and disappear up the road in a squeal of rubber before anything bad had a chance to happen. Somehow, thank god, it never did. Until her kids eventually took her keys away. Or maybe somebody shopped her? Whoever it was, well done that person.

...I've seen what would be called youngsters that were not what I would call safe.

You wouldn't have much luck convincing them though. Most are over confident. Sometimes one has to make mistakes to learn something, whilst everyone else hopes it just minor mistakes.

Hey, come on, granddad, move fast and break things. It worked for Mark Zuckerberg, didn't it?

Sometimes I shudder at the things I used to do on a motorbike. (Often, actually.) History does tend to be written by the survivors. So far, so good.

BJ

[dubre]

For those of you so exercised about preventing others from driving and thus taking away some of their freedoms the solution is simple. Open and fund an account with the local taxi firm. This would be a good test of your principles.

Myself; the moment my wife or my offspring tell me that I am unsafe I stop driving.

[pje16]

For those of you so exercised about preventing others from driving and thus taking away some of their freedoms the solution is simple. Open and fund an account with the local taxi firm. This would be a good test of your principles.

a bit radical, they can just use the saving in fuel, road licence and insurance
I don't pay that for them so why should I pay for their taxis

[didds]

Indeed. Doctors are on the horns of a dilemma here, because a car is often central to an elderly person's social life, and it's the social life that keeps dementia and depression at bay. In rural areas like ours, losing your licence is a real blow.

possible derail happening here... this is really a larger part of life planning though. I fully understand the attraction of staying where you have lived for decades etc etc ... but there comes a time when one really needs to make a call on where to live in older age and the realities of that eg proximity and access to services (GP, pharmacist, dentist, post office etc etc ) and part of that is also maybe is a remote/village life compatible with all of that IF a car is removed from the situation. That probably sounds harsher than I mean

Having said that, there are taxis and (sometimes!) buses, and when it's time to stop it's probably already past the time to stop.

that's it really see above.

[88V8]

Indeed. Doctors are on the horns of a dilemma here, because a car is often central to an elderly person's social life, and it's the social life that keeps dementia and depression at bay. In rural areas like ours, losing your licence is a real blow.

... this is really a larger part of life planning though.

If the govt took it upon itself to make these decisions for us we'd all be rightly squawking about Nanny State.

And if we want the roads to be safer then make it much harder to get a licence, and lift the lower age to twenty.

As regards those who are waiting for driverless cars to provide personal mobility, all I can say is haha. We'll have pilotless aircraft and nuclear fusion before we have driverless cars.

V8

[9873210]

People really need to stop expecting everyone else to be perfect, allow for others to make moderate "mistakes".

Could you define ‘moderate "mistakes"’ -

Is it a mistake that only leads to damage to another car?
Is it a mistake that only puts an innocent bystander in A&E and off work for a week?
Is it a mistake that only kills one person out of the couple the imperfect driver has hit?

At the end of the day a driver is responsible for a tonne or two of metal moving at speed, and it’s not unreasonable to expect their health allows them to do that in reasonable safety.

Typically several steps before you begin your list. Although you should not rate mistakes entirely by their consequences.

In the case of pulling out of a side road. If crossing traffic has to brake it is a mistake. If the cross traffic has to activate anti-lock brakes to avoid a crash it's more than moderate, but the crossing driver would ideally still avoid a crash in most cases. If a crash occurred despite the cross driver activating anti-lock brakes it's a very serious mistake. If there is a crash and the cross driver did not brake at all it's usually two mistakes. In all case reasonable judgement has to be used because it is possible that the cross driver is mostly mistaken (e.g. excessive speed with limited sight lines) or not at all mistaken (e.g. pulling out driver hits the side of crossing car)

Sorry but that’s nonsense.

Whether the driver pulling out who didn’t look / couldn’t see, then whether it results in a motorcyclist who goes head first into a lamppost killing themselves because the only option they had was to drop the bike, or someone in a modern car with every technological benefit available to enable them to avoid hitting the car, in both cases the driver pulling out has made the same dangerous mistake.

I am saying exactly the same thing you are saying. Read what is written and stop being argumentative for the sake of argument.

[AF62]

People really need to stop expecting everyone else to be perfect, allow for others to make moderate "mistakes".

Could you define ‘moderate "mistakes"’ -

Is it a mistake that only leads to damage to another car?
Is it a mistake that only puts an innocent bystander in A&E and off work for a week?
Is it a mistake that only kills one person out of the couple the imperfect driver has hit?

At the end of the day a driver is responsible for a tonne or two of metal moving at speed, and it’s not unreasonable to expect their health allows them to do that in reasonable safety.

Typically several steps before you begin your list. Although you should not rate mistakes entirely by their consequences.

In the case of pulling out of a side road. If crossing traffic has to brake it is a mistake. If the cross traffic has to activate anti-lock brakes to avoid a crash it's more than moderate, but the crossing driver would ideally still avoid a crash in most cases. If a crash occurred despite the cross driver activating anti-lock brakes it's a very serious mistake. If there is a crash and the cross driver did not brake at all it's usually two mistakes. In all case reasonable judgement has to be used because it is possible that the cross driver is mostly mistaken (e.g. excessive speed with limited sight lines) or not at all mistaken (e.g. pulling out driver hits the side of crossing car)

Sorry but that’s nonsense.

Whether the driver pulling out who didn’t look / couldn’t see, then whether it results in a motorcyclist who goes head first into a lamppost killing themselves because the only option they had was to drop the bike, or someone in a modern car with every technological benefit available to enable them to avoid hitting the car, in both cases the driver pulling out has made the same dangerous mistake.

I am saying exactly the same thing you are saying. Read what is written and stop being argumentative for the sake of argument.

You are not saying the same thing (I utterly disagree with your statement “Although you should not rate mistakes entirely by their consequences”) and I suggest you read what I have written.

[chas49]

Moderator Message:
If you want to discuss the subject of the OP, or debate related matters - please do so. However, personal arguments between posters are not helpful and are off-topic.

For clarity - AF62 and 9873210 - do not continue this argument.

(chas49)

[zico]

I was (almost) in a similar situation last year with my father, who was 90 at the time. He'd had a couple of parking-based scrapes, and I was getting a bit concerned, but didn't want to interfere and restrict his independence by suggesting he stop driving, though I was relieved when he make the decision to stop. He made his decision because he'd got to the stage where he couldn't get in and out of his car without help from others.

His monthly mileage was very low, twice a week to the village (about 6 miles) and once every couple of weeks to the nearest town (10 miles). So roughly 50 miles per month.
It gave him independence and mobility, and he'd always enjoyed driving cars.

Against that, the possibility of him causing harm to others through his driving seemed a very remote possibility, given his mileage.

Elderly people keep experiencing new limitations on their lives, so I'd be very wary about encouraging people to give something up before they felt it was the right time (assuming they were mentally competent, of course).

[AF62]

the possibility of him causing harm to others through his driving seemed a very remote possibility, given his mileage.

If "a couple of parking-based scrapes" resulted from doing around 75 journeys a year then I would say that was far higher accident rate than the average driver.

[quelquod]

I was (almost) in a similar situation last year with my father, who was 90 at the time. He'd had a couple of parking-based scrapes, and I was getting a bit concerned, but didn't want to interfere and restrict his independence by suggesting he stop driving, though I was relieved when he make the decision to stop. He made his decision because he'd got to the stage where he couldn't get in and out of his car without help from others.

His monthly mileage was very low, twice a week to the village (about 6 miles) and once every couple of weeks to the nearest town (10 miles). So roughly 50 miles per month.
It gave him independence and mobility, and he'd always enjoyed driving cars.

Against that, the possibility of him causing harm to others through his driving seemed a very remote possibility, given his mileage.

Elderly people keep experiencing new limitations on their lives, so I'd be very wary about encouraging people to give something up before they felt it was the right time (assuming they were mentally competent, of course).

^^^ just so. I suppose about half of drivers are below average and picking age as a need to be better isn’t reasonable.

Parking scrapes eh? I’ve just had mine scraped in ASDA’s car park by an average-aged guy who didn’t know where the corners of his mega-SUV were. Not much of an indicator of his safety on the roads.

[pje16]

Parking scrapes eh? I’ve just had mine scraped in ASDA’s car park by an average-aged guy who didn’t know where the corners of his mega-SUV were. Not much of an indicator of his safety on the roads.

Most large SUV drivers have no idea about the size of their vehicles
Sorry you got clipped, that is so annoying.