Choosing a new electric car

[redsturgeon]

I am planning to buy a new fully electric car on my company in April. This will take advantage of the new incentive of 0% BIK from the government going up to 1% next year and 2% the year after, but a considerable saving on current rates.

I am looking to lease a car over three years at 10,000 miles pa. For the vast majority of journeys anything over 200 mile range would be fine but there is one major customer we have who is based 220 miles away. My wife visits this customer three or four times a year, usually travelling there and back in one day. So I am aware that no BEV would have the range to do this trip without a stop to recharge and the longer the range we can get from the car, the shorter any recharge stop would be.

We also visit my family a few times a year, often doing the trip in one day and they are 170 miles away, so range is important.

I have narrowed the search down to a Jaguar i-pace or the long range Tesla 3, there are pros and cons with each.

Jaguar pros: Dealer network, SUV so good for loading stuff, supposedly a good car to drive and reasonably like a normal car.
Cons: Reliability? Some issues with driving (brakes). Charging network availability.

Tesla pros: best charging network, fast and good to drive, best software.
Cons: Build quality issues, lack of decent dealer network if problems occur, delays in spare parts. Saloon only. A different experience to a normal car.

Looking at the prices of these cars to lease, they both work out about £550 per month on a business lease. This is slightly surprising since I think the Jaguar is about £10k more expensive to buy.

Does anyone have any thoughts to help my decision or point out something I have missed.

John

[Wuffle]

I would recommend watching a Youtube video.
'Harry's garage' is produced by a well respected commentator though he does have commercial links to JLR which he doesn't keep especially quiet.
It has allowed him to borrow the Jaguar and a Hybrid LR Sport for longer than is the norm.
Recently he has been in the market and has some salient points to make about these vehicles and Tesla.

W.

[JohnB]

Watch the Fully Charged channel on YouTube

[Howard]

RS

Have you driven a Nissan Leaf? I was lent one for the day about 18 months ago by the Winchester dealer. It was very pleasant to drive. They offered purchasers a free loan ICE car, if needed for the occasional long journey. From memory, it was a free service financed by Nissan and may be available for a lease car.

Mrs H wanted a smaller car and for that reason we chose a Golf, but the Leaf seemed to me to be a very practical hatchback. The e+ claims a range of 239 miles.

Nissan service was pretty good when we had one years ago and the Leaf has a good reputation.

regards

Howard

[jackdaww]

i beleive the leaf is a genuine nissan.

ie made before the ghastly renault venture.

[Howard]

Have just looked at the Jaguar I Pace specs and you would be getting a very fancy car for your £500+ a month less all the BIK subsidies! Having driven three Jaguars over the years, they do offer a very nice driving experience and, for me, were fault-free.

A maintenance package would only add £20 a month to the rental cost. Surely that is worth considering as it will give peace of mind. My experience of using a package is excellent. I've had two punctures over the last three years and, these alone made the package worthwhile. Both tyres were expensive and difficult to get but the tyre companies came to my house and repaired the cars within a day of the phone call. They both told me that I'd have had to wait for longer and get the car to the local depot if it wasn't a leased car. If they'd come out to a private individual the charges would have been north of £250 each. Lease companies are big customers and their customers are treated as a priority.

This applied to the bi-annual manufacturers service as well, even the snooty BMW main dealers offered their premium service for lease cars.

regards

Howard

PS Back to a Nissan Leaf, I see a business lease package for a top of the range model would be around £300 a month. You wouldn't have the snob value of driving an I Pace. But Would your customers think you are charging too much if you turn up in a Jag?

PPS Worth asking Wheypat how he is getting on with his Tesla. Having changed from a Leaf to a Tesla 3 long range a couple of months ago, he promised to give us his views on this board.

[Urbandreamer]

A word of warning about range.

What we are really talking about is energy. A petrol car on an urban circuit has less range than if the same tank is used to drive on a motorway. This is NOT the case with an EV.

In simple terms air resistance increases with speed, hence energy consumption.

For example, this post where someone tested their range at different speed.
https://www.quora.com/Can-electric-cars ... ore-slowly

It's my understanding that manufacturers test their cars on a Dynometer (no air resistance) and then quote 70% of that as a guess at the likely range. However as the phrase states "Your milage may vary".

Cars with a smaller cross section and better airodynamics will use less energy at higher speeds. Hence the saloon is likely to use less energy at motorway speeds. Range then becomes a factor of the size of the battery pack (at motorway speeds).

[redsturgeon]

A word of warning about range.

What we are really talking about is energy. A petrol car on an urban circuit has less range than if the same tank is used to drive on a motorway. This is NOT the case with an EV.

In simple terms air resistance increases with speed, hence energy consumption.

For example, this post where someone tested their range at different speed.
https://www.quora.com/Can-electric-cars ... ore-slowly

It's my understanding that manufacturers test their cars on a Dynometer (no air resistance) and then quote 70% of that as a guess at the likely range. However as the phrase states "Your milage may vary".

Cars with a smaller cross section and better airodynamics will use less energy at higher speeds. Hence the saloon is likely to use less energy at motorway speeds. Range then becomes a factor of the size of the battery pack (at motorway speeds).

Yes I have noticed this. In fact looking at the i-pace I think it might struggle to do 220 motorway miles at my wife's average pace!

The Tesla charging stations are also looking like being a major plus but as Howard says the ipace is a lot of car for the same money on a lease.

John

PS...our customers expect to be dealing with successful people.

[Urbandreamer]

Just had a brief look at the cars.

The Jag is almost 300mm wider and 100mm heigher. It also has a higher Cd factor. These facts are almost certainly going to be a significant factor in the energy used at motorway speeds.

This may be why the Tesla can get away with a battery smaller than that of the Jag (Testa options 54,63,75KWh Jag 90KWh)
It may be worth considering that the 75KWh battery gives the Tesla a significantly greater range than that of the bigger battery in the Jag, while the battery for the same range is just over half the size.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_I-Pace
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_3

I'm not sure that a Leaf would meet the demand at all with it's max range of just over 100 miles (30 KWh battery). I'd also be suspicious that the range at motorway speeds might be optimistic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf

[Howard]

Just had a brief look at the cars.

The Jag is almost 300mm wider and 100mm heigher. It also has a higher Cd factor. These facts are almost certainly going to be a significant factor in the energy used at motorway speeds.

This may be why the Tesla can get away with a battery smaller than that of the Jag (Testa options 54,63,75KWh Jag 90KWh)
It may be worth considering that the 75KWh battery gives the Tesla a significantly greater range than that of the bigger battery in the Jag, while the battery for the same range is just over half the size.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_I-Pace
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_3

I'm not sure that a Leaf would meet the demand at all with it's max range of just over 100 miles (30 KWh battery). I'd also be suspicious that the range at motorway speeds might be optimistic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf

Just looking at the Nissan site, I think your figures may be out of date. The Leaf e+ has a 62 kWh battery and a claimed range of 239 miles. When I drove a smaller battery Leaf 18 months ago its actual range appeared to be quite a bit over 100 miles. This was mainly 70mph and 50 mph for more than 70 miles of mixed motorway and country road driving. There appeared to be half a charge left when I returned the car. It was a warm summer day which may have helped.

regards

Howard

[BobbyD]

I am planning to buy a new fully electric car on my company in April. This will take advantage of the new incentive of 0% BIK from the government going up to 1% next year and 2% the year after, but a considerable saving on current rates.

I am looking to lease a car over three years at 10,000 miles pa. For the vast majority of journeys anything over 200 mile range would be fine...

PS...our customers expect to be dealing with successful people.

Audi E-Tron.

241 mile range, a 'proper'* car, 0%-80% at a decent lick, it's an Audi.

https://www.drive-electric.co.uk/vehicl ... ron-lease/

https://leasing.com/car-leasing/audi/e-tron/

* with associated reliability, cost and availability of servicing, customer service...

[redsturgeon]

I am planning to buy a new fully electric car on my company in April. This will take advantage of the new incentive of 0% BIK from the government going up to 1% next year and 2% the year after, but a considerable saving on current rates.

I am looking to lease a car over three years at 10,000 miles pa. For the vast majority of journeys anything over 200 mile range would be fine...

PS...our customers expect to be dealing with successful people.

Audi E-Tron.

241 mile range, a 'proper'* car, 0%-80% at a decent lick, it's an Audi.

https://www.drive-electric.co.uk/vehicl ... ron-lease/

https://leasing.com/car-leasing/audi/e-tron/

* with associated reliability, cost and availability of servicing, customer service...

Too much money, not enough real world range. I do like Audis though.

John

[BobbyD]

Too much money, not enough real world range. I do like Audis though.

John

Well the correct answer is not to be so impatient and to wait for the id.3 but we both know that!

[redsturgeon]

Too much money, not enough real world range. I do like Audis though.

John

Well the correct answer is not to be so impatient and to wait for the id.3 but we both know that!

I know, I know but I'm impatient!

John

[dspp]

Too much money, not enough real world range. I do like Audis though.

John

Well the correct answer is not to be so impatient and to wait for the id.3 but we both know that!

No, the Tesla Y. But that might be quite a wait in RHD.

regards, dspp

[BobbyD]

Too much money, not enough real world range. I do like Audis though.

John

Well the correct answer is not to be so impatient and to wait for the id.3 but we both know that!

No, the Tesla Y. But that might be quite a wait in RHD.

regards, dspp

If you have to be at a meeting which affects your income why would you put yourself in the hands of a company whose customer services don't even bother answering the phone anymore, which treats its customers as beta testers and has been known to take months and thousands of dollars to repair a dent in the one market it has a semblance of an integrated support structure?

If it's business rather than leisure or shopping I'd give not being a Tesla a significant weighting. i-pace rather than model 3, id.3 rather than model Y. Maybe by the time a replacement is being considered Tesla will have managed to refund and rebuild their CS which was well respected before the M3 launch.

[Howard]

A word of warning about range.

What we are really talking about is energy. A petrol car on an urban circuit has less range than if the same tank is used to drive on a motorway. This is NOT the case with an EV.

In simple terms air resistance increases with speed, hence energy consumption.

For example, this post where someone tested their range at different speed.
https://www.quora.com/Can-electric-cars ... ore-slowly

It's my understanding that manufacturers test their cars on a Dynometer (no air resistance) and then quote 70% of that as a guess at the likely range. However as the phrase states "Your milage may vary".

Cars with a smaller cross section and better airodynamics will use less energy at higher speeds. Hence the saloon is likely to use less energy at motorway speeds. Range then becomes a factor of the size of the battery pack (at motorway speeds).

Yes I have noticed this. In fact looking at the i-pace I think it might struggle to do 220 motorway miles at my wife's average pace!

The Tesla charging stations are also looking like being a major plus but as Howard says the ipace is a lot of car for the same money on a lease.

John

PS...our customers expect to be dealing with successful people.

RS Sorry! Forget my comments about the Leaf. If you really want to look successful, then a Porsche Taycan is only a little more than a Jag. Mrs RS can bomb up the motorway and get back before lunch without reducing the range below about 250 miles.

regards

Howard

[Howard]

RS

Serious question, particularly in the current situation, have you worked out the economics of a BEV versus a PHEV? I know there are generous BIK incentives but I've just looked at the gross business cost of leasing a BMW 330e and it's around £330 a month for the same mileage etc. That's £200 a month cheaper than the two BEVs you are considering. Yes, it will only travel around 40 miles on battery only, but my experience of the previous 330e model was that for shorter journeys, you might expect to get better than 100 mpg, assuming you charge overnight. It's a lovely car to drive with world-class Sat Nav and infotainment and a range of 400 miles plus.

Yes, it isn't a BEV, and in 2035 won't be sold, but as a compromise, how does it stack up for running costs over three years compared with your two BEV choices?

regards

Howard

[redsturgeon]

RS

Serious question, particularly in the current situation, have you worked out the economics of a BEV versus a PHEV? I know there are generous BIK incentives but I've just looked at the gross business cost of leasing a BMW 330e and it's around £330 a month for the same mileage etc. That's £200 a month cheaper than the two BEVs you are considering. Yes, it will only travel around 40 miles on battery only, but my experience of the previous 330e model was that for shorter journeys, you might expect to get better than 100 mpg, assuming you charge overnight. It's a lovely car to drive with world-class Sat Nav and infotainment and a range of 400 miles plus.

Yes, it isn't a BEV, and in 2035 won't be sold, but as a compromise, how does it stack up for running costs over three years compared with your two BEV choices?

regards

Howard

Good question Howard.

That's a good price for leasing, where is that from?

Unfortunately from a BIK view I lose a couple of thousand a year vs a BEV, as a company car it's not worth it.

As a private lease it is very similar to the BMW I already have...just a bit newer.

John

[Howard]

RS

Serious question, particularly in the current situation, have you worked out the economics of a BEV versus a PHEV? I know there are generous BIK incentives but I've just looked at the gross business cost of leasing a BMW 330e and it's around £330 a month for the same mileage etc. That's £200 a month cheaper than the two BEVs you are considering. Yes, it will only travel around 40 miles on battery only, but my experience of the previous 330e model was that for shorter journeys, you might expect to get better than 100 mpg, assuming you charge overnight. It's a lovely car to drive with world-class Sat Nav and infotainment and a range of 400 miles plus.

Yes, it isn't a BEV, and in 2035 won't be sold, but as a compromise, how does it stack up for running costs over three years compared with your two BEV choices?

regards

Howard

Good question Howard.

That's a good price for leasing, where is that from?

Unfortunately from a BIK view I lose a couple of thousand a year vs a BEV, as a company car it's not worth it.

As a private lease it is very similar to the BMW I already have...just a bit newer.

John

The quote is from Leasing.com see: https://leasing.com/car-leasing/bmw/3-series/ The broker GB.com is quoting £326.58 a month for the terms I entered (10k mileage per year, 35+6 months). It doesn't include a maintenance package which will cost a little more per month.

Out of interest, I looked up the BIK allowance for the 330e and the following quote was interesting:

"If you’re looking to treat yourself to a premium executive saloon, the BMW 3 Series is the best in the business, and has been for a wee while now."

"The battery assisted engine has an all-electric driving range of 37 miles when fully charged. This helps the 330e produce a miniscule 37g/km Co2 emissions, which in turn, places the 330e in the lowest BIK bracket and paying a BIK rate of 16%."

See: https://www.leasefetcher.co.uk/lists/best-company-cars.

To be honest, I haven't looked at the BIK costs in fine detail as I am retired. As you know from a previous post elsewhere, I have a friend who has just got a Tesla Model 3 and, as a company director, he is amazed how cheap it will be to run, taking into account the government subsidies. However, he preferred his previous Merc from a driving viewpoint. It's early days, it will be interesting to see if the Tesla service is ok as he will be a demanding customer and will not be amused if the car lets him down.

regards

Howard