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Solar trickle charger update

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DrFfybes
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Solar trickle charger update

#309548

Postby DrFfybes » May 18th, 2020, 8:53 am

Someone asked me to update on the effect of the cheapo solar charger. I can't remember which thread it was on, so here is a new one :)

The panel claims to ouptut 2W and was a tenner when Maplin were closing, so not the biggest expense. It is about A4 size when open, but the panels are probably half that size in the frame. 2W at 14 volts (roughly what a car charger can run at) means about 150mA max output.

With a bit of playing with panel position and a clamp meter, I found in bright direct sunlight the panel could actually push 150mA or so into the battery, largely unchanged by being behind glass, so the claims on the packet are correct. However without being in direct bright light, this rapidly drops to 50mA which is about as low as my meter is accurate for but is about the normal drain for the car.

So, after a few days, the battery was again down to 11.7V so no real benefit from the panel. I charged the car again, and locked it with the key (hoping to reduce drain) and again after 4 days it was 11.7V. However I couldn't detect any drain on the battery and after another few days without the panel it was still 11.7V so what it looks like is the the BMW detects when the voltage is dropping and shuts down other features of the car to protect the battery. This sort of thing is not uncommon, Mclarens drop the window an inch when the battery gets to this level - not only a visual clue the battery is going down but it also means you can open the door to get to the bonnet release to get to the battery.

IF the panel was in direct bright light then in summer I expect it might be able to keep up with the drain, but obviously things like cloud and darkness limit the output so really it is more ornamental. If I had a spare battery I might try it and see if t charged it over time, as I suspect for powering a few LED lights off a leisure battery then it might be OK, but really for keeping a modern car topped up you need more output.

I would try it on the old Toyota which has no remote or electronics, but as we use that once or twice a week it isn't feasible.

Paul

bungeejumper
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Re: Solar trickle charger update

#309569

Postby bungeejumper » May 18th, 2020, 9:55 am

Interesting. I'd been pondering the idea of harnessing up an old solar panel (11 watts), which we originally bought to drive a pond pump - but it had a lot of integrated circuitry ("press once for charge, press twice for charge and run, press three times for the continuous red light that changes everything again"), and I realised I was way out of my technical depth and I'd probably make something go bang if I just hooked it up to the battery terminals. (Did I ever mention that I was excluded from school physics lessons after an ill-advised experiment with a lead/acid battery? :twisted: )

So O/T, I know (apologies Paul), but last week I finally wimped out and blued twenty quid on one of these (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07PY22B5Q), and it really seems rather spiffy. Only one puny amp/hour per hour (obviously!), so in theory it would probably take 60 hours to bring a fully discharged battery up to max capacity - but in practice you're rarely that low so it's quicker. My Toyota hasn't run in nine weeks, but its battery was up to max in 14 hours.

Mind you, it's a five year old battery, so maybe I'm comparing apples with bananas. Will see what it does with the six month old battery in the wife's Golf.

BJ

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Re: Solar trickle charger update

#309608

Postby dspp » May 18th, 2020, 11:52 am

There will be two sorts of discharge going on. The self-discharge of the battery (which is related to the battery size, and to its condition), and the discharge caused by any parasitic loads still present in the car.

As a rule of thumb I typically used to recommend about a 30-35W panel to keep a boat's diesel engine starter battery topped up on a mooring, through a charge controller of course.

On the downside that panel would inevitably become fouled (birds, salt), and on the upside on a boat it is easier to isolate all the other parasitic loads.

So it is not a surprise to me that at 2-10W you are struggling to keep up.

As you go to larger panels you MUST insert a charge controller into the circuit. At very small panel sizes you can get away without one, but not at larger sizes. You need a panel that is large enough to need a charge controller.

regards, dspp

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Re: Solar trickle charger update

#310146

Postby bungeejumper » May 20th, 2020, 8:36 am

bungeejumper wrote:My Toyota hasn't run in nine weeks, but its battery was up to max in 14 hours. Mind you, it's a five year old battery, so maybe I'm comparing apples with bananas. Will see what it does with the six month old battery in the wife's Golf.

Update: The Golf's battery took 36 hours to brim with the trickle charger, compared to 14 for the Toyota, whose battery was of similar nominal capacity. I'd already noticed that the Golf battery was low from lack of use (the cranking had become sluggish), but I'm assuming that most of the difference in charging times was/is down to the greater age of the Toyota's unit. It just isn't drinking so deeply of the electrical nectar, so it feels full sooner.

One of the advertised benefits of this particular trickle charger is that it pulses the supply current gently, rather than delivering a flat rate of current. The manufacturer's claim is that the pulsing helps to refresh the parts of the battery that other beers cannot reach. It sounds attractive, but does anybody know whether there's anything in the science?

BJ

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Re: Solar trickle charger update

#310171

Postby Urbandreamer » May 20th, 2020, 9:18 am

bungeejumper wrote:The manufacturer's claim is that the pulsing helps to refresh the parts of the battery that other beers cannot reach. It sounds attractive, but does anybody know whether there's anything in the science?

BJ


There is some science, but it's not magic. It won't stop the battery eventually dieing.

I started waffling, then thought "someone else must have explained it".
So I hunted down this link for you.
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/art ... prevent_it

bungeejumper
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Re: Solar trickle charger update

#310218

Postby bungeejumper » May 20th, 2020, 11:14 am

Urbandreamer wrote:I started waffling, then thought "someone else must have explained it".
So I hunted down this link for you.
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/art ... prevent_it

Thanks UD, that's really helpful. :)

BJ


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