The Lemon Fool

I'm looking for something like this to jump start the car in an emergency:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/BUTURE-Starter ... 852&sr=8-5

I'm a bit baffled by the range and prices of the starter kits and would be gratful for any advice on what to buy, what to look for and what to avoid.

Cars Q5 (2 litre petrol) 2018 and sa small Kia, also petrol.

Thanks

The is one of those "too much choice" things. I frequently rescue people who cannot start their cars by using the starter I bought which was similar to this one. They are surprised that such a small thing can start the car.

I cannot comment on that particular option. However, I would keep an eye on the Ah or mAh figure as well as the peam Amps. I would also get one that also can be used as USB charger (backup battery for mobiles etc).

Paupertas wrote:I'm looking for something like this to jump start the car in an emergency:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/BUTURE-Starter ... 852&sr=8-5

I'm a bit baffled by the range and prices of the starter kits and would be gratful for any advice on what to buy, what to look for and what to avoid.

Cars Q5 (2 litre petrol) 2018 and sa small Kia, also petrol.

Thanks

The thing to bear in mind is a car starter motor draws about 400 Amps while turning the engine over, but it happens for a very short amount of time so the actual amount of charge used is very small. Perhaps 1 AmpHour, if that.

These devices are a small lithium battery similar to that in a cordless drill or hedge trimmer, but bigger in capacity, in a box with some electronics to try to make them idiot-proof. (Pointless as engineers know, because the universe responds by building better idiots.) The thin wires have NO CHANCE of delivering the 400 Amps or so starting current so what these things really do is give your totally flat battery a small charge for a few minutes just like a mains plug-in charger would, enough charge for perhaps five or then seconds of engine starting. The plan is, the engine then starts and the alternator takes over re-charging the totally flat battery.

The thing is, you need to understand why your battery went flat in the first place. Is this a problem you have regularly? If so you possibly have a diode failed in your alternator or a totally sulphated battery which won't hold a charge. The former causes the latter as the alternator charging voltage drops to enough to run the car, but not fully charge the battery.

Probably too much information....

Bottom line is that device you list should be about right for your car, but if you need to use it, do find out why you needed to use it.

johnhemming wrote:The is one of those "too much choice" things. I frequently rescue people who cannot start their cars by using the starter I bought which was similar to this one. They are surprised that such a small thing can start the car.

I cannot comment on that particular option. However, I would keep an eye on the Ah or mAh figure as well as the peam Amps. I would also get one that also can be used as USB charger (backup battery for mobiles etc).

Do you work for the AA or similar?

I struggled to recall the last time I was asked to help someone start a car with a flat battery. I won the struggle in the end and can confirm that it was at least ten years ago!

Watis

It depends on the definition of frequently really. I think there times in the past year is frequent. If I see someone having problems and I am not in a rush I normally offer to help. However, one of these was someone knocking on the door asking for help.

Paupertas wrote:I'm a bit baffled by the range and prices of the starter kits and would be gratful for any advice on what to buy, what to look for and what to avoid.

Batteries have changed in recent years with the introduction of the mode where the engine stops with the car and restarts when you press the clutch etc. This may make a difference to what is needed for an emergency start. If the alternator is dead, restarting isn't going to work terribly well, although a car will run and restart even with a dead alternator.

All cars with stop/ start technology have the ability to switch off the stop/ start feature.

What's wrong with ten quid's worth of traditional jump leads, then? Apart from the fact that you have to have sufficient intelligence to connect them the right way round. Something which a few of my fellow humans have failed to achieve.

There are, of course, situations where you can't get the donor car close enough. I've always said that I'd daisy-chain two sets of jump leads so as to make the distance (yes, I have two sets), but I'm not sure how OK that would be? I've never had to try, anyway.

BJ

bungeejumper wrote:
I've always said that I'd daisy-chain two sets of jump leads so as to make the distance.

A stretched jump lead set. Is that what experts call a "bungeejumper"?

I'll get my coat ......

Howard

bungeejumper wrote:What's wrong with ten quid's worth of traditional jump leads, then? Apart from the fact that you have to have sufficient intelligence to connect them the right way round. Something which a few of my fellow humans have failed to achieve.

There are, of course, situations where you can't get the donor car close enough. I've always said that I'd daisy-chain two sets of jump leads so as to make the distance (yes, I have two sets), but I'm not sure how OK that would be? I've never had to try, anyway.

BJ

Ten quid jump leads are usually really short, made of thin aluminium wire and within an ace of useless for starting anything bigger than a lawn mower

I too have two sets of professional jump leads with whopping fat multi-strand copper cables, hefty, effective crocodile clips on each end work really well. Each set cost thirty quid 25 years ago IIRC. So that's £50 each in today's money, much the same price as them portable jump starters.

One reason to be really careful of jump-starting modern vehicles is the connecting and disconnecting of the leads can upset the programming, or so I've read. Dunno if it is true or not. Mine get used mostly for starting 1930s vintage diesels

The thing is, you need to understand why your battery went flat in the first place.

The Kia's used to run to the local village, is six years old and has only done 12,000 miles. The battery went flat a couple of years ago and the garage we have used for years said that we could try chargng it and it should (not would) be OK. I trust the garage and didn't want the inconvenience of risking another flat battery so i asked them to change it. If the Kia's battery is flat it blocks the Q5 effectively taking two cars out of action. The Kai battery went again last week. I got the car started after charging it and took it to the garage. They brough the car back and had changed the battery which was still under warranty foc (I had no idea it was under warranty - they could have charged me for a new battery).

I don't understand amps, etc but was just baffled by the wide range of prices and techie details (I'm a pen pusher and knowing where the engine is just about sums up my knowledge of cars). I just though for what is less than £100 I could avoid being stuck. I would assume that a charger costing up to £200 would be better than one costing under £100, but is this the case? Puzzling to say the least.

The Q5 is two years old and hasn't done 5,000 miles yet. This was the year we planned to not go abroad and tour the UK in it - that went well in the present circumstances. We now take the Q5 a run around the local moorlands ever Sunday to stop it seizing up and to get out of the house for an hour or so

I'm thinking of buying two chargers and keeping them in each car. The cars are both automatics which (from memory) might be harder to start whe the battery is flat. I did wonder if I needed different chargers as the cars are so different, but it appears not. As someone posted - too much choice!

Thanks everyone.

Mike4 wrote:

bungeejumper wrote:What's wrong with ten quid's worth of traditional jump leads, then? Apart from the fact that you have to have sufficient intelligence to connect them the right way round. Something which a few of my fellow humans have failed to achieve.

There are, of course, situations where you can't get the donor car close enough. I've always said that I'd daisy-chain two sets of jump leads so as to make the distance (yes, I have two sets), but I'm not sure how OK that would be? I've never had to try, anyway.

Ten quid jump leads are usually really short, made of thin aluminium wire and within an ace of useless for starting anything bigger than a lawn mower

I too have two sets of professional jump leads with whopping fat multi-strand copper cables, hefty, effective crocodile clips on each end work really well. Each set cost thirty quid 25 years ago IIRC. So that's £50 each in today's money, much the same price as them portable jump starters.

One reason to be really careful of jump-starting modern vehicles is the connecting and disconnecting of the leads can upset the programming, or so I've read. Dunno if it is true or not. Mine get used mostly for starting 1930s vintage diesels

Now Mike4's talking his own book. There's nothing wrong with those cheaper jump leads if you use them sensibly and with proper expectations, i.e. you are not planning to jump-start Mike4's tractor. Just make sure there's a decent contact between lead and vehicle/battery and give it a few minutes with donor engine running to top up the charge in the flat battery. Then the lead only needs to transfer a small percentage of additional current to get the car started.

I've certainly never failed to jump start a car due to the cheap lead. This is pretty low-tech stuff!

GS

You can't jump start a car with an automatic gearbox.

A jump start to me is getting someone to push the car, engaging second gear with the clutch depressed, then releasing the clutch. That is what I meant in my earlier post when I stated that you cannot jump start a car with an automatic gearbox. Apologies for the confusion.

That would be a bump start.

Julian F. G. W.

Paupertas wrote:The Kia's used to run to the local village, is six years old and has only done 12,000 miles. The battery went flat a couple of years ago and the garage we have used for years said that we could try chargng it and it should (not would) be OK. I trust the garage and didn't want the inconvenience of risking another flat battery so i asked them to change it.

I'd expect a new car's battery to last five or six years - my Toyota is getting a new one on its sixth birthday. To have a battery failing after four years (I'm thinking of the OP's "six years old", minus "a couple") would be bad luck but not unheard of. However, I'm not one to quibble about getting an extra twenty quid's worth of life out of a battery, given the inconvenience of a low battery on a cold morning.

I have a vague recollection that we discussed this same subject a couple of years ago (or maybe it's just an annual topic?) And that the OP of that thread agreed that the early failure was probably down to a very low mileage, doing short runs. (Highly sub-optimal from a charging point of view. )

So would a starter be a healthier option than a trickle charger, or would it just be 'reviving the dead' at intervals because the cars weren't getting enough healthy charge from their normal use. (Talk about deep cycling!)

Cheaper recommendation: just put a quick 15 minute thrash on both cars every couple of weeks. Every moving part in the vehicles will thank you for it.

BJ

So would a starter be a healthier option than a trickle charger, or would it just be 'reviving the dead' at intervals because the cars weren't getting enough healthy charge from their normal use. (Talk about deep cycling!)

I used to put the cars on trickle charge every week or so, but have been missing doing this of late. I'll have to restart it.

Cheaper recommendation: just put a quick 15 minute thrash on both cars every couple of weeks. Every moving part in the vehicles will thank you for it.

Just done that with both cars, the Kia on Saturday and the Q5 on Sunday. This now accounts for the majority of my motoring these days

As my car has been relatively inactive since Covid kicked in, I bought one of these a while ago...

https://www.ctek.com/uk/products/car/mxs-5-0-uk

They seem highly regarded and can be either left connected long term if a car is out of use, or just connected from time to time to keep the battery well charged.

They were hard to come by when I bought mine; I think everyone had the same idea with lockdown leading to lack of use for many cars.

One issue with modern cars is that even when switched off they use juice, so because a battery is flat, it doesn't necessarily mean it's knackered, the car may well just not have been used enough to keep it topped up.

And batteries for cars with start-stop tech are of a different kind to the old ones, and not cheap, so keeping them well charged seems a worthwhile thing to do.

On the point of giving the car a 15 minute run from time to time, I'm not sure that's enough, as the act of starting the car will take some power, so a short run might leave it less charged than before.

staffordian wrote:
And batteries for cars with start-stop tech are of a different kind to the old ones

That's interesting. As a battery geek I didn't know that. What kind are they then? Do you know please?

Thanks.

As my car has been relatively inactive since Covid kicked in, I bought one of these a while ago...

Hi staffordian - that's exactly the one that I have. I'll just have to use it a bit more I think!