New Toyota Yaris

[Arborbridge]

Now we have enough accumulated and are thinking about something like a hybrid - Toyota being on the short list. However, I still can't get my head round what the advantage is to me in buying something with expensive batteries which are a nightmare cost when they need replacing, take up a large volume and add weight - over a normal petrol engine.

Does it make any economic sense to a low to average mileage family? I have severe doubts, but am still interested to learn over the next months or year as replacement time comes up.
Very happy driving a diesel Merc and can't see much point in incurring loads more depreciation. And my wife has a low mileage Citroen C3 which just keeps reliably plodding on with zero depreciation and low repair bills - not worth selling and going to being a one car family as the cost is so low.

Arb.

I wouldn't change for the sake of it, unless your mileage is so low that you're not getting the DPF in your Merc up to temperature .

On hybrids, the evidence so far is that car batteries seem to be lasting better than expected. Also, they just degrade gradually over time so perhaps only have 80% of their initial capacity after 10yrs / 100k miles. Just look on Autotrader and you'll see Prius minicabs with 300k miles still on the original batteries. Furthermore, batteries are getting cheaper and cheaper. So in short, by the time you may wish to replace them, the small battery in a hybrid (typically 10% of the size of that in a fully electric car) may only cost a few hundred pounds to replace. I don't think it's an issue.

My rough rule of thumb based on costs and benefits would be:
Mileage < 10k pa, mostly town and country... get a petrol car.
Mileage < 10k pa, regular city driving... get a hybrid car.
Mileage > 10k pa, regular city driving, few >150mi journeys... get an electric car.
Mileage > 10k pa, regular city driving and some >150mi journeys... get a hybrid car.
Otherwise, get a diesel car.

This is for a private motorist paying for your own costs, I think the incentives for business or company cars can skew things a little.

Thanks for that useful table of thoughts! I'm borderline all the way round and as I've just moved and then locked-down I haven't a clue what my mileage is now or will be next year. Probably around 10-12k normally, with very occasional journey >100 miles-300miles. But then, I do shopping trips of the order of 30 miles round (everything I might need is 30 minutes in one direction or another), quite short. I expect a petrol is most sensible option.

If I wait, not only will the market, infrastructure and technology be developing, but at the age of 75 my next car could be my last, or penultimate one!

Arb.

[Arborbridge]

I think a hybrid might make sense if you do a high mileage which includes a lot of driving in town and traffic congestion. Using electric power can reduce local pollution.
If your mileage is low, a plug-in hybrid may make more sense, though you'd be lugging a heavy, complex inactive ICE around for no obvious reason.
For low to average mileage, I would think the optimum choice is either fully-electric, or petrol. Low mileage and diesel is not a good or efficient combination, especially in town.

--kiloran

Low mileage and diesel is not a good or efficient combination, especially in town.
Yes, for that reason, we use the diesel for longer journeys and the petrol C3 for short trips. I don't find the Citroen sitting position comfortable so Mrs Arb does those journeys and we share driving the Merc, which is an auto. That's fun when switching to the manual C3 - going to put it "in gear" usually turns on the wipers!

Arb.

[bluedonkey]

We brought our Yaris at three years old, and it's thirteen now. Never broken down, never gone wrong, just once a year services and MOT.

Toyotas do seem to be screwed together well. Bought our petrol Toyota at 5 years old, it's 23 years old now! 146k. Damn thing just keeps going, so can't justify changing it. All the non-essential bits still work too, electric mirrors, a/c, etc. Original clutch lasted over 100k.

[jackdaww]

We brought our Yaris at three years old, and it's thirteen now. Never broken down, never gone wrong, just once a year services and MOT.

Toyotas do seem to be screwed together well. Bought our petrol Toyota at 5 years old, it's 23 years old now! 146k. Damn thing just keeps going, so can't justify changing it. All the non-essential bits still work too, electric mirrors, a/c, etc. Original clutch lasted over 100k.

========================

japanese cars have long been considered to be very reliable.

honda and toyota in particular .

but the question for me now -- does that still hold true ??

it certainly doesnt for nissan - i have one .

[jackdaww]

re hybrids..

they do have one big advantage for me - there is no CLUTCH.

but i have that with a petrol automatic .

[AF62]

Or for a Yaris £1,400 down and £225 a month.

I think time has caught up with us all. You can easily spend £20K on a Ford Fiesta these days, and that's just a 1 litre petrol Ecoboost.

£1,200 down and £150 a month would get you one of those, so the Yaris is expensive in comparison.

I never did quite get the hang of PCP, but why would the differential between those two quotes be so large if the difference in the windscreen sticker price was so slim? (In this case, £2 to £3K at most.

Sorry should have said, those costs were for leasing - as before, who actually buys a new car these days... (other than people here).

[bungeejumper]

japanese cars have long been considered to be very reliable.

honda and toyota in particular .

but the question for me now -- does that still hold true ??

it certainly doesnt for nissan - i have one .

Honda is losing money and market share, I believe. And Nissan is basically a Renault subsidiary these days, isn't it?

I can't remember the last time I heard anybody complaining about Toyota's build quality or reliability, though. The company's embarrassing run of brake failures, airbag failures and assorted other safety failures during the 2010s was so shocking that it focused the corporate minds wonderfully. One reason why Toyotas still have a five year warranty - it was an essential step to winning back consumers' faith.

Fortunately it worked. Toyotas are quite rightly called unadventurous, because the decision has been taken to stay well away from the bleeding edge and build rock-solid cars with tested technology. How odd that that didn't occur to other manufacturers?

And a lot of the European market models, including mine, are built in deepest Derbyshire.....

BJ

[swill453]

Sorry should have said, those costs were for leasing - as before, who actually buys a new car these days... (other than people here).

I tend to buy a 4 or 5 year old car for cash, and keep it for 3 or 4 years.

Scott.

[DrFfybes]

Sorry should have said, those costs were for leasing - as before, who actually buys a new car these days... (other than people here).

I tend to buy a 4 or 5 year old car for cash, and keep it for 3 or 4 years.

Scott.

Similar here, except we tend to keep them for a decade (or 2).

Paul

[AF62]

Sorry should have said, those costs were for leasing - as before, who actually buys a new car these days... (other than people here).

I tend to buy a 4 or 5 year old car for cash, and keep it for 3 or 4 years.

Scott.

Similar here, except we tend to keep them for a decade (or 2).

Paul

So the price new is irrelevant.

[DrFfybes]

I tend to buy a 4 or 5 year old car for cash, and keep it for 3 or 4 years.

Scott.

Similar here, except we tend to keep them for a decade (or 2).

Paul

So the price new is irrelevant.

Of course not. The new prce has a knock on effect on the used price. If Audi A6 were cheaper new then we would have bought a 4 year old one of those, but they weren't in our £8k budget.

Paul

[AF62]

Similar here, except we tend to keep them for a decade (or 2).

Paul

So the price new is irrelevant.

Of course not. The new prce has a knock on effect on the used price. If Audi A6 were cheaper new then we would have bought a 4 year old one of those, but they weren't in our £8k budget.

Paul

Sure but an overpriced £25k car with 60% depreciation would be the same price used as a £20k car with 50% depreciation.