New speed limits

[AF62]

Hmm, and when did driver awareness courses start? The ones where no fines are imposed but you have to pay a certain amount to go on the course. I don't think the people running the course make a lot out of it so there must be a decent amount left over. Who gets that?

It is run by UK ROED LIMITED - https://www.ukroed.org.uk/scheme/

According to their accounts, the courses are expensive to run (£72m in 'sales' in 2020 and cost of 'sales' £66m and admin costs of £4m) and the remaining profits go to their parent charity (with some decent amounts paid to directors and a small number of staff) - https://find-and-update.company-informa ... y/08773977

[sg31]

Hmm, and when did driver awareness courses start? The ones where no fines are imposed but you have to pay a certain amount to go on the course. I don't think the people running the course make a lot out of it so there must be a decent amount left over. Who gets that?

It is run by UK ROED LIMITED - https://www.ukroed.org.uk/scheme/

According to their accounts, the courses are expensive to run (£72m in 'sales' in 2020 and cost of 'sales' £66m and admin costs of £4m) and the remaining profits go to their parent charity (with some decent amounts paid to directors and a small number of staff) - https://find-and-update.company-informa ... y/08773977

I'd like to know why the courses are expensive to run. I have been on one, it was in a shabby room, in a rundown building. Signage to find the room was marker pen on cardboard cellotaped to doors. It was badly presented and shambolic, handouts were badly prepared. It may have been an exception to most courses but it was definitely done on the cheap.

They may include the cost of detector vans and staff in the costs which is fair enough and obviously they need staff to send out paperwork to persons caught. That must involve computers. buldings as such.

Maybe my experience is far from typical but my business senses suggested someone somewhere was making a packet on the system. Maybe the police or the council, possibly both.

Don't get me wrong I applaud the idea that education is better than penalising someone. It worked for me, I decided I didn't want to be a cash cow for anyone so I now stick rigidly to the speed limit.

[AF62]

Hmm, and when did driver awareness courses start? The ones where no fines are imposed but you have to pay a certain amount to go on the course. I don't think the people running the course make a lot out of it so there must be a decent amount left over. Who gets that?

It is run by UK ROED LIMITED - https://www.ukroed.org.uk/scheme/

According to their accounts, the courses are expensive to run (£72m in 'sales' in 2020 and cost of 'sales' £66m and admin costs of £4m) and the remaining profits go to their parent charity (with some decent amounts paid to directors and a small number of staff) - https://find-and-update.company-informa ... y/08773977

I'd like to know why the courses are expensive to run. I have been on one, it was in a shabby room, in a rundown building. Signage to find the room was marker pen on cardboard cellotaped to doors. It was badly presented and shambolic, handouts were badly prepared. It may have been an exception to most courses but it was definitely done on the cheap.

They may include the cost of detector vans and staff in the costs which is fair enough and obviously they need staff to send out paperwork to persons caught. That must involve computers. buldings as such.

I do not believe the cost of detector vans is covered by them as their web site says - Included in that sum is an amount of money that goes back to the Police Force where the offence took place to cover the cost of processing the offence and the course offer. Working this way means that the courses pay for themselves rather than receiving funding, which would be diverted from other much-needed services.

Maybe my experience is far from typical but my business senses suggested someone somewhere was making a packet on the system. Maybe the police or the council, possibly both.

Don't get me wrong I applaud the idea that education is better than penalising someone. It worked for me, I decided I didn't want to be a cash cow for anyone so I now stick rigidly to the speed limit.

There is no indication that the police or council are making a lot of money from this, and from the accounts the company itself isn't either.

Hopefully nothing nefarious is going on here and it might simply be that the company is bad at negotiating rental rates on shabby rooms, marker pens and cardboard and that accounts for such a high cost of 'sales'.

However... It isn't hard to increase costs to reduce profits in one entity and move them to another - after all that is what tax avoidance industry is all about - and if they did want to do something 'interesting' then having a separate company charging a hefty rental fee for the IP for the course content would be an obvious way to do it.

[dragnips]

My car has a speed limiter which reads the speed limit and won't allow me to exceed it. It works on most but not all roads.

All very well, but my speed limiter tends to read signs on side roads - a little disconcerting when you are suddenly limited to 20mph when previously travelling at 30. Fortunately, this facility (adaptive speed limiter) can be disabled.

[bungeejumper]

Hopefully nothing nefarious is going on here and it might simply be that the company is bad at negotiating rental rates on shabby rooms, marker pens and cardboard and that accounts for such a high cost of 'sales'.

My wife's speed awareness course was held in a pub. In mitigation, it was 8.45 in the morning. I imagine they probably tried the local Wetherspoons but couldn't get a booking?

BJ

[bungeejumper]

All very well, but my speed limiter tends to read signs on side roads - a little disconcerting when you are suddenly limited to 20mph when previously travelling at 30. Fortunately, this facility (adaptive speed limiter) can be disabled.

Thanks, I didn't know that any of these systems worked on optical cues, and I'm impressed that they can make it work at all reliably, given the potential for ambiguity. (The roads are full of assorted signs saying 60 or 70 or 20 in large lettering, on lorries or hoardings or even house numbers.) Until now I'd assumed that, like your satnav, speed limiters simply took their information from GPS data?

BJ

[richlist]

I can guarantee when driverless cars arrive they will all keep within the speed limits.
Driver awareness courses for those caught speeding won't be an industry with a bright future.

[didds]

Knowing this, I stick to the limit as it is only a very short distance.

This is entirely the point of course.



didds

[didds]

[/i]

You could wipe it and the 'cars over one litre' industry now by fitting all new vehicles with the speed limiter devices already in use.

why not cars under 1 litre already? There's undoutedbly a good reason i dont know about

(my daughter has owned two 850cc Matiz in recent years albeit a decade old etc so such vehicles do exist )

didds

[bungeejumper]

[/i]
You could wipe it and the 'cars over one litre' industry now by fitting all new vehicles with the speed limiter devices already in use.

why not cars under 1 litre already? There's undoutedbly a good reason i dont know about

Ha, I remember when the first Smart cars came on the market - many of them were used as rental cars.

So there I was, in the middle lane of the M4 and doing about 80 on the clock (so maybe 72 in real money), and this tiny little upright thing came tazzing past me at a good 15 mph more than me. Either the seats were fully reclined, or the two occupants were pinned back in their seats by sheer terror. Not bad for 599 cc and 45 bhp.

BJ

[swill453]

I can guarantee when driverless cars arrive they will all keep within the speed limits.
Driver awareness courses for those caught speeding won't be an industry with a bright future.

It'll have a fair run first though. I wouldn't expect a driverless car that could handle normal UK roads for 2 or 3 decades yet.

Scott.

[tjh290633]

[/i]
You could wipe it and the 'cars over one litre' industry now by fitting all new vehicles with the speed limiter devices already in use.

why not cars under 1 litre already? There's undoutedbly a good reason i dont know about

Ha, I remember when the first Smart cars came on the market - many of them were used as rental cars.

So there I was, in the middle lane of the M4 and doing about 80 on the clock (so maybe 72 in real money), and this tiny little upright thing came tazzing past me at a good 15 mph more than me. Either the seats were fully reclined, or the two occupants were pinned back in their seats by sheer terror. Not bad for 599 cc and 45 bhp.

BJ

In the 1990s, I was travelling along the M4 eastwards, just past Membury Services, when a Citroen 2CV passed me at a rate of knots. I was probably doing an indicated 70-something at the time. I took the A329M through Bracknell and the A329 to the M3 and emerged on the M25. I was probably approaching the A3 junction when the same 2CV passed me again at terminal velocity.

Mind you, another time, a lorry kindly let me exit the stationary M25, probably onto the A3 at Wisley, and I took the pretty route to Peas Pottage on the A23, where I then overtook the same lorry. I had had a pleasant country drive in the meantime.

It's a funny old world.

TJH

[bungeejumper]

Mind you, another time, a lorry kindly let me exit the stationary M25, probably onto the A3 at Wisley, and I took the pretty route to Peas Pottage on the A23, where I then overtook the same lorry. I had had a pleasant country drive in the meantime.

For the last forty years or so, we've driven to the south of France most summers - sometimes just down to the Tarn, and sometimes right down to the Spanish border at Perpignan, and beyond. But it's always entertaining to "race" the Ferraris and the Lamborghinis and suchlike, through the erratic torments of the motorway toll booth queues and the inevitability of Mr Ferrari copping a very large fine if he gets caught using even a quarter of his power.

One thing that we tend to forget over here is that France's motorways are one enormous average speed camera - they know to the split-second when you passed through the last tollbooth, and so when the next one comes up in 150 miles' time they'll be able to tell to the nth decimal place how far you've tweaked the 130 kmh speed limit, and how much you owe the French government, and how many points will need to come off your licence.

One year we picked up on a bright orange Ferrari amid the endless traffic jam to the west of Orleans, and 350 miles later we were still neck and neck with him as the Mediterranean hove into view. In a 1.4 Rover. I bet we had a more comfortable journey, too. And spent a lot less time queuing up to fill the tank while trying to swat the feral kids away.

BJ

[JohnB]

There is some great writing in Fleming's Goldfinger when Bond is tracking EFs gold-laden Rolls across Europe with a crappy tailing device. Bond doesn't know he's gone the wrong way at a crossroads for 20 miles, but burns up the miles to catch up with the Rolls each time. He does have an Aston Martin DB III though.

[DrFfybes]

One thing that we tend to forget over here is that France's motorways are one enormous average speed camera - they know to the split-second when you passed through the last tollbooth, and so when the next one comes up in 150 miles' time they'll be able to tell to the nth decimal place how far you've tweaked the 130 kmh speed limit, and how much you owe the French government, and how many points will need to come off your licence.
BJ

I thought this, but then my sister moved over there about 20 years ago.

Apparently it is an urban myth - they simply have/had a fixed camera a few km before the toll then pull people over at the toll booths as they know they have to stop there. Certainly I've averaged in well excess on late night runs through to Spain and had no comeback.

Paul

[bungeejumper]

Apparently it is an urban myth - they simply have/had a fixed camera a few km before the toll then pull people over at the toll booths as they know they have to stop there. Certainly I've averaged in well excess on late night runs through to Spain and had no comeback.

Thanks for that, Paul. Something must have changed, then, because a mate of mine was done for completing the gap between two tollbooths in insufficient time.** The records were presented in court, as I recall. But heck, that was a long time ago.

They certainly do use mobile traps in France, but AFAIK all the fixed cameras come with roadside warnings, and your satnav will ping. (Officially, they're not warning you of the speed trap, but that it's a "dangerous stretch of road". It's the same difference really, though.)

Either way, it's quite noticeable how speed-obedient French drivers are on the motorway these days, compared with the good old days. At least, in the daytime. The main speed freaks seem to be mad Spaniards, Dutch and Belgians - everybody else seems to be almost a little neurotic about keeping to 130 kph. Now, if only they'd stop the undertaking and all that lane-weaving on the Peripherique.....

BJ

**Totally off-topic, but in my Berlin days the East Germans would haul you over for taking too long on the turnpike motorway journey from West Berlin to Hanover. They would record the sequence of the numberplates at the Berlin end, and if you were more than a couple of dozen vehicles out of sequence at the Hanover end, they'd assume that you'd stopped along the way to pick up a refugee.

BJ

[Watis]

Apparently it is an urban myth - they simply have/had a fixed camera a few km before the toll then pull people over at the toll booths as they know they have to stop there. Certainly I've averaged in well excess on late night runs through to Spain and had no comeback.

Thanks for that, Paul. Something must have changed, then, because a mate of mine was done for completing the gap between two tollbooths in insufficient time.** The records were presented in court, as I recall. But heck, that was a long time ago.

They certainly do use mobile traps in France, but AFAIK all the fixed cameras come with roadside warnings, and your satnav will ping. (Officially, they're not warning you of the speed trap, but that it's a "dangerous stretch of road". It's the same difference really, though.)

Either way, it's quite noticeable how speed-obedient French drivers are on the motorway these days, compared with the good old days. At least, in the daytime. The main speed freaks seem to be mad Spaniards, Dutch and Belgians - everybody else seems to be almost a little neurotic about keeping to 130 kph. Now, if only they'd stop the undertaking and all that lane-weaving on the Peripherique.....

BJ

**Totally off-topic, but in my Berlin days the East Germans would haul you over for taking too long on the turnpike motorway journey from West Berlin to Hanover. They would record the sequence of the numberplates at the Berlin end, and if you were more than a couple of dozen vehicles out of sequence at the Hanover end, they'd assume that you'd stopped along the way to pick up a refugee.

BJ

I thought that the fixed speed cameras in France did not have warning signs - and some of those grey 'bins' and slim black poles are difficult to spot at times.

And I thought that, to be legal, you had to disable a satnav's speed camera warnings when driving in France.

Per the AA: https://www.theaa.com/european-breakdow ... tor-france

Watis

[bungeejumper]

I thought that the fixed speed cameras in France did not have warning signs - and some of those grey 'bins' and slim black poles are difficult to spot at times.

And I thought that, to be legal, you had to disable a satnav's speed camera warnings when driving in France.

Correct, strictly speaking, they disable themselves automatically when you're in France. Or rather, France managed to swing all the satnav service providers into not supplying speed camera locations. But they now provide "accident black-spot" warnings that are near as dammit the same damn thing. (Same locations, in my experience.) Not the first time that France has made something illegal/compulsory and then weaselled the rules so as to make them functionally meaningless. (Remember the breathalysers? https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/ ... olish%20it.)

Beware the mobile traps, though. Still coining it in on the rural roadsides.

BJ

[DrFfybes]

Apparently it is an urban myth - they simply have/had a fixed camera a few km before the toll then pull people over at the toll booths as they know they have to stop there. Certainly I've averaged in well excess on late night runs through to Spain and had no comeback.

Thanks for that, Paul. Something must have changed, then, because a mate of mine was done for completing the gap between two tollbooths in insufficient time.** The records were presented in court, as I recall. But heck, that was a long time ago.

Certainly in the past they used to shoot past and then stop for a pique-nique, allegedly to use the time up. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/top ... 1&f=25&h=0 supports the UrbanMyth idea. I wonder if the tolls were privatised at some point and the Govt owned ones could do it?

They certainly do use mobile traps in France, but AFAIK all the fixed cameras come with roadside warnings, and your satnav will ping. (Officially, they're not warning you of the speed trap, but that it's a "dangerous stretch of road". It's the same difference really, though.)

Either way, it's quite noticeable how speed-obedient French drivers are on the motorway these days, compared with the good old days. At least, in the daytime. The main speed freaks seem to be mad Spaniards, Dutch and Belgians - everybody else seems to be almost a little neurotic about keeping to 130 kph. Now, if only they'd stop the undertaking and all that lane-weaving on the Peripherique.....

They really are very observant these days. I first noticed it heading out of Caen one Weds evening a few years back going to the Le mans MotoGP we hit the 130 and I went straight to the limit, must have been 5km before we stopped rattling past people. The new 80 kph limit is also widely obeyed (or was last year), although the ones that ignore it tend to do so dramatically.

Still a lot of drinking and driving in the country areas though

Paul

[bungeejumper]

Still a lot of drinking and driving in the country areas though

Oh indeed. I was random-breathalysed about four years ago, on a rural main road. It was nothing personal, they were just stopping everybody who came down the road.

I blew a zero, which quite surprised me because I thought we all had at least some alcohol because of ordinary fermentation in the gut? But I was quite glad that I'd resisted the temptation to have a (single, small) beer at lunchtime.

You can still see those tiny Aixam microcars driving around noisily in rural areas - the ones that they'll still allow you to drive after you've been banned for drink-driving. https://www.connexionfrance.com/Practic ... ng-licence . And now apparently the young'uns are driving them because you don't need a licence.

But then, they'll only do 28 mph. Which is where we came in, I believe?

BJ