Modern cars too clever by half!

[ten0rman]

Can I have a moan? A generally p1$$ed off moan?

Recently on our car, an Avensis Estate, 7 1/2 years from new, 98000 miles, and generally very good, a yellow light came on saying that the automatic electric brake function wasn't working. And it wasn't, but manually it was fine. So I went to see my local mechanic who interrogated the electronics and couldn't find anything wrong. His eventual thoughts were that it was if something had been switched off. But what? A quick, and I do mean quick, look through the handbook there and then didn't reveal anything, so I went away to dig further.

Eventually I found that there was indeed a function to switch off, or on as the case may be, the automatic function. It turned out that one of us had held the brake switch operated for greater than 5 seconds whereupon the electronics had decided that the user wanted to switch off the automatic brake function. Which it did, and lit the light to tell us. To re-engage the automatic function and extinguish the light, one holds the brake switch in the opposite direction for at least 5 seconds.

7 1/2 years before we found out about this facility! And just at the moment I can't really see why there has to be such a function. Indeed I can't see why we need an electric parking brake, but that will be another argument. It makes me wonder just what other functions there are on this car for which there is no known need. As it is, early on we discovered the facility to switch off the electric windows thus locking them in whichever position they happened to be. Supposedly a safety feature to stop the children opening the window and climbing out whilst travelling. A bit daft really as the rear windows are manually operated, and therefore this feature only works on the front passenger window.

Which brings me back to the heading - "Modern cars are too clever by half".

ten0rman

[bluedonkey]

Next, the car will be driving you to the shop because it's decided you've run out of milk.

[Watis]

Next, the car will be driving you to the shop because it's decided you've run out of milk.

Rapidly followed by the car driving itself to the shop to get the milk for you while you stay at home.

Watis

[Mike4]

Blimey I thought you were leading up to saying the main control board in the car would not allow you to turn it back on again, a new one is £2500 and if you don't spend the money, it's an MoT failure = a scrap car.

[bungeejumper]

Ah yes, I had that one with the windows being locked. Also on a Toyota. Nearly took it back to the dealer to see if they could sort it out, but eventually I found it. It turned out to be a switch which was easily knocked while you were trying to wind down the windows in the dark.

But yes, a great many modern cars have commands and switches that aren't in the owner's handbook. My old VW Passat had dozens of them, which were known only to owners' club members, they were so obscure. Some of them seemed to relate to country-specific situations, such as how to stop a South African carjacker from climbing in, or how to keep your boot securely locked while your American hotel valet-parks your car - or, conversely, how to lock yourself securely in the cabin while simultaneously opening the tailgate so that a store attendant can load up your boot. You'd never find those things except by accident, by which time you're probably locked in.

Mind you, any seven and a half year old could figure them out in four minutes flat. Me, I'm still having to look up how to set the bloody clock on the wife's Golf forward or back by an hour, twice a year. And we've had the car eight years now. Multi-function multi-layer switches are the invention of Satan himself.

BJ

[Dod101]

It is quite possible that on another model of your car, the rear windows will be electric as well and so the switch which is redundant on your model will be useful in another.

I sympathise though because I have much the same issue with a lot of stuff on my Q5. To an extent I had the opposite problem with my first Q5 which I bought from the showroom as it had everything I needed except cruise control. They said, 'No problem sir, we will retro fit it and it will cost £250' (or something like that. I do not remember). All they did was removed the cover around the steering column, screwed in the control stick and replaced the cover (with a different one to accommodate the new stick)

I am surprised though that on the old VW Passat there was very much to find. I always thought that they were fairly basic.

Dod

[kiloran]

I think the problem exists with almost all products these days. Cars, TVs, PVRs, phones, remote controls, you name it. When "features" can be added with just a few lines of code, software engineers just get carried away

--kiloran

[bungeejumper]

it had everything I needed except cruise control. They said, 'No problem sir, we will retro fit it and it will cost £250' (or something like that. I do not remember). All they did was removed the cover around the steering column, screwed in the control stick and replaced the cover (with a different one to accommodate the new stick)

I think there are very few cars these days that don't have the wiring for cruise control pre-installed, all the way back to the electronic control. It only takes an extra bit of flex to do it, and making two versions of the loom (one with, one without) would just be too much trouble and expense. So yes, there are pattern part switches out there for as little as £30 that will convert the car. (Install at your own risk. Or pay a technician £150.)

I am surprised though that on the old VW Passat there was very much to find. I always thought that they were fairly basic.

Mine was a 2007 model, and there were dozens. Some had to be set with a computer, but others could be done by anybody who knew how to navigate the multi-function switches. I didn't, that's for sure.

As a final question, how many Fools' cars will open/close all their windows if you stand outside the car and hold down the lock/unlock button on the key fob? Most, I'd guess. It's an impressive but useless little party trick. Try it.

BJ

[Dod101]

I am afraid I am going back a long way with the Passats that I had at one time. I was working overseas and kept one in my garage in Scotland to save hiring a car every time we returned but I am talking about the 1980s when the old Passat was pretty well indestructible and really quite basic.

Not that it matters, but my Q5 closes my windows if I want, from outside.

Dod

[DrFfybes]

So what we're saying here is that in 7.5 years (including lockdown) of owning 1.6 tonnes of lethal machinery you've only just got around to reading the instructions?

Don't feel bad, you are amongst the majority. In fact it seems hardly anyone does these days, which means they miss out on so many goodies like "how to turn off the **** auto door lock at 15 mph so you can get your coat off the back seat when you stop for petrol" (which is in the manual, but doesn't work on a manual car, however the method online did work, but only if you do the 'set' procedure first).

Turning off the auto handbrake (which on mine only comes on when you stop the engine) is probably nore useful on an auto which has a 'park' position on the gearbox, but I do release the parking brake when on the flat drive at home and just leave the car in gear. Someth#imes the cars can sit for a week or 2 and the handbrakes can stick, especially if it is wet.

The window lock button shouldn't be a surprise - they were common as far back as a Ford Granada in the 1980s where IIRC they stopped the passengers buttons from operating. The "hold the unlock to open the windows" works on the Z4 but is configurable. I have used it on a hot day to vent the car on the driveway. Not tried ot on the Avensis.

ISTR posting about the brake warning light on my 1994 Toyota Camry coming on (and stayong on) when I braked, but resetting when I turned the engine off to go and check the fluid level. This was the completely undocumented feature to warn you off a failed brake light bulb.

On some Becker stereos you can reverse the direction of operation of the volume control so anticlockwise is louder. Not sure why you would want to, apart from to irritate someone else who has the same model and leaves you alone with their car for 20 seconds.

Paul

[MonsterMork]

Ooh, welcome to my world Blinking flip electrickery parking brakes are the work of Beelzebub

Get them on the MoT brake tester and the expletive deleted's lock up with sod all force, to the extent that I have had to fail a few cars for no working handbrake because they lock the wheels at too low an applied force, thus registering no effort on the brake tester And there is no getting away with accidentally fritzing the results, as MoT stations either set up from new or changed from old now have to install/update brake testers which are directly connected to the MoT system, and us old stations have a print out of the brake results anyway which can, and do, get checked by DVSA on site visits. Or else the chuffin' thing fails spectacularly when tested, such as the Range Rover that left the customer with a thousand pound bill. Might not have been so bad but it failed when being tested on a hill. Locking one wheel solid. Quarter of a mile from the workshop. And the emergency parking brake release system failed. Interesting drive back ....

Oh, and here's another thing with the automatic door locking at speed malarkey: some cars I can set this off on the MoT ramp when I spin the wheels by hand to check the wheel bearings. Which is why I always drop at least one window and leave the driver's door on the latch. This clever little idea has caught more than one tester by surprise, leaving them with a locked vehicle with the engine running stuck on the ramp ....

MM

[GrahamPlatt]

I think the term you’re all looking for is “Easter Eggs”.

[ten0rman]

We found about the window lock thing when my wife, more or less as soon as the car was bought, flipped the switch with the window open when she was visiting her relatives 130 miles away. She then had to drive home with the window partly down.

In respect of reading the handbook, I did read it, but at a good 1 inch thick & covering all the Avensis models, plus as I went through discovering things that in reality I nether wanted nor needed. There is, for example, a switch that does something to brakes and wheels in wintery weather. Leaving aside the fact that I haven't seen a decent winter for a decade or three now, I have always found it satisfactory to develop a light right foot. As someone has said, manufacturers have added all these silly little gizmos just to show how clever they are. Incidently, when we bought a new caravan 3 years ago, we went through a similar stupid experience with all sorts of electronic fripperies just not working correctly.

In respect of the MOT, I did indeed mention this to my mechanic who only 1 week ago passed it. He said that it would not be a fail as it did not stop the parking brake from working: it is merely a warning light to let the driver know that auto parking is switched off.

I have to say that in my humble opinion, drivers simply do not need all these added fripperies: what they need to do is to learn to drive without them which is what I and countless others had to do 50+ years ago.

ten0rman

[Mike4]

We found about the window lock thing when my wife, more or less as soon as the car was bought, flipped the switch with the window open when she was visiting her relatives 130 miles away. She then had to drive home with the window partly down.

In respect of reading the handbook, I did read it, but at a good 1 inch thick & covering all the Avensis models, plus as I went through discovering things that in reality I nether wanted nor needed. There is, for example, a switch that does something to brakes and wheels in wintery weather. Leaving aside the fact that I haven't seen a decent winter for a decade or three now, I have always found it satisfactory to develop a light right foot. As someone has said, manufacturers have added all these silly little gizmos just to show how clever they are. Incidently, when we bought a new caravan 3 years ago, we went through a similar stupid experience with all sorts of electronic fripperies just not working correctly.

In respect of the MOT, I did indeed mention this to my mechanic who only 1 week ago passed it. He said that it would not be a fail as it did not stop the parking brake from working: it is merely a warning light to let the driver know that auto parking is switched off.

I have to say that in my humble opinion, drivers simply do not need all these added fripperies: what they need to do is to learn to drive without them which is what I and countless others had to do 50+ years ago.

ten0rman

And for that delightful inclusion, I nominate you for "Word of the Day" award for today.

[GoSeigen]

Our Audi A4 had a rather wonderful automatic/manual arrangement which I haven't seen before or since. Rather than dictate for you when your headlights should be on or off, it worked this way: in bright daylight the dashboard LEDs, speed indicator etc would be brightly lit enabling them to be clearly seen. As it got darker the dashboard would become dimmer and dimmer. When you could no longer read the indicators, the way to remedy the situation was to turn on the headlights, whereupon the dashboard would light up nicely again. This had the great advantage of leaving the driver in control of exactly when the lights should go off/on while giving her a very useful prompt when the time was approximately right.

Other cars I have driven infuriatingly do the opposite, turning the headlights on/off at their whim, or turning the dash lights off during the day which in half-light makes them difficult to read and on in the dark so no hint to switch on the headlights.


GS

[DrFfybes]

Other cars I have driven infuriatingly do the opposite, turning the headlights on/off at their whim, or turning the dash lights off during the day which in half-light makes them difficult to read and on in the dark so no hint to switch on the headlights.

GS

The Avensis dims the dash and touchscreen when the lights are on, which has been handy on occasion(!). My issue is one car has "Off - Auto - Sidelights - Headlights" whilst the other has "Off - Sidelights - Headlights - Auto". On several times I have driven off on sidelights only as muscle memory is to turn the stalk 2 positions to switch on headlights.

The other thing putting lights on does is to dip the DRLs, which can be rather dazzling at night.

Paul

[bungeejumper]

The Avensis dims the dash and touchscreen when the lights are on, which has been handy on occasion(!). My issue is one car has "Off - Auto - Sidelights - Headlights" whilst the other has "Off - Sidelights - Headlights - Auto". On several times I have driven off on sidelights only as muscle memory is to turn the stalk 2 positions to switch on headlights.

Ditto on all counts with my Auris/Corolla, except that I don't have Auto and it was the DRLs that I drove away with. So bright that I was quite unaware that my headlamps weren't on. Drove right through town with no real lights showing. Oops.

I like the self-dimming touchscreen too. On overcast mornings when I'm using dipped beams along the narrow country lanes, it can sometimes be the only cue I've got as to whether I'm fully illuminated or not. And a reminder to turn them off again when I reach civilisation.

Dashboard bongs are another story. (Honestly, officer, I never touch the stuff.) One dark night, my Passat started making these sonorous noises whenever I turned the wheel even slightly to the right. I stopped and couldn't find anything wrong. In daylight, it turned out to be an early warning from the brake fluid sensor - my level had dropped because of normal brake piston travel, and the little bit of centrifugal force from cornering had tipped the surface level that little bit more so that the sensor sounded.

I needn't have worried, apparently. It was only when it got to giving three bongs in succession that I'd have known I had a problem.

Remind me to tell you somehow about how the Passat's rear wiper wouldn't work when its bonnet lock was dirty.

BJ

[swill453]

Remind me to tell you somehow about how the Passat's rear wiper wouldn't work when its bonnet lock was dirty.

Or my Mondeo air-conditioning didn't work because the windscreen washer heaters were corroded.

Both on the same fuse. Almost got as far as paying for a re-gas before I discovered it.

Scott.

[sg31]

I have to say that in my humble opinion, drivers simply do not need all these added fripperies: what they need to do is to learn to drive without them which is what I and countless others had to do 50+ years ago.

ten0rman

I think exactly the same. I've driven for 50 years in very basic cars and can change gear, hold the car on a hill without 'hill start'. I can turn my lights on at the appropriate time and can check my blind spot without assistance. I find it relatively easy to stay in my lane and keep to whatever speed limit applies.

My current car now does some of these things for me. I wish it didn't because over time my hard earned abilities might fade due to lack of use. If I ever have to drive a vehicle lacking these aids it might cause me problems.

[richlist]

My Range Rover has all sort of whistles & bells, warning lights & switches and a driver manual an inch thick.

What Land Rover offer, that other manufacturers don't seem to, is a complimentary half day 'get to know the technology' experience at one of their 7 UK centres. You can learn about stuff you didn't know existed.

My advice is forget the rest......just buy one of the Land Rover range.