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UK cuts electric car subsidies.

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DrFfybes
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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#399417

Postby DrFfybes » March 27th, 2021, 7:45 am

AF62 wrote:
"knobs to adjust the heating" doesn't your car have automatic climate control so you set the temperature once and then never need to touch it again? And this "radio" you mention, does that have something to do with the old fashioned wireless that I have heard about, but which has long been superseded by MP3s on USB, Spotify from Bluetooth, or music from Apple CarPlay ;)


Of all the modern systems, I do find Climate Control to be the one we dislike. I do like the idea of having passenger and driver sides at different temps, in fact the 1990 Toyota does this, unfortunately in that case the passenger is always warmer than the driver. However MrsF suffers from cold hands, whereas I OTOH get cold feet. Fine, on an old system you can waft warm air where you like. But on the new one once the car reaches the set temp, it starts sending tepid air into the vehicle. This means to maintain a warm breeze over the chilly bits, you need to turn up the heater. Eventually you get so warm you get drowsy.

The answer is another 'recent' improvement - electric rear windows. That way you can keep the car below the set temp and maintain a warm draught over your extremities.

Paul

Howard
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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#399440

Postby Howard » March 27th, 2021, 10:32 am

DrFfybes wrote:
AF62 wrote:
"knobs to adjust the heating" doesn't your car have automatic climate control so you set the temperature once and then never need to touch it again? And this "radio" you mention, does that have something to do with the old fashioned wireless that I have heard about, but which has long been superseded by MP3s on USB, Spotify from Bluetooth, or music from Apple CarPlay ;)


Of all the modern systems, I do find Climate Control to be the one we dislike. I do like the idea of having passenger and driver sides at different temps, in fact the 1990 Toyota does this, unfortunately in that case the passenger is always warmer than the driver. However MrsF suffers from cold hands, whereas I OTOH get cold feet. Fine, on an old system you can waft warm air where you like. But on the new one once the car reaches the set temp, it starts sending tepid air into the vehicle. This means to maintain a warm breeze over the chilly bits, you need to turn up the heater. Eventually you get so warm you get drowsy.

The answer is another 'recent' improvement - electric rear windows. That way you can keep the car below the set temp and maintain a warm draught over your extremities.

Paul


We were caught in the rain and wind during a walk yesterday. The KIA BEV warm air heating is electric, so blows hot in seconds and can immediately be directed to various parts of the anatomy. The driver has a separate control which can give priority. This is presumably useful when there are no passengers in the car.

With cold, wet hands, the instant heating of the steering wheel was bliss. :) And, of course we both had electrically heated seats.

We sat in the car having our picnic. Lovely warm air circulating and no polluting ICE engine required. 8-)

I was interested to see what effect a warm 15 minute picnic had on the battery's range. It only appeared to take a mile off. One reason was that we had to turn the heating down fairly quickly as it otherwise we would have got too hot.

Because of potential battery drain from keeping the internal temperature of a car high, I have read that BEV designers provide more direct forms of heating like the steering wheel and seats to encourage drivers to use a lower cabin temperature. This was a great advantage in yesterday's situation. However I have read accounts of Tesla drivers using their cars for longer journeys in UK winter conditions having to turn the heating off to eke out the range. I guess this would be the same for the KIA if we tried to take advantage of its full range, which will drop in adverse conditions.

regards

Howard

AF62
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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#399471

Postby AF62 » March 27th, 2021, 12:02 pm

Howard wrote:We sat in the car having our picnic. Lovely warm air circulating and no polluting ICE engine required. 8-)


And you can do the opposite in the summer with the aircon.

Tesla has a 'Dog Mode' where the car is kept cool / warm whilst the owner is away and the car is off, with the large display screen in the car tells anyone outside who is concerned that everything is fine for the animals - https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2959 ... 20settings.

Arborbridge
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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#399574

Postby Arborbridge » March 27th, 2021, 5:01 pm

All wonderful until you run out of battery power :( That's where a hybrid has the advantage: belt and braces. You can't beat it for peace of mind.


Arb.

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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#399620

Postby AF62 » March 27th, 2021, 8:03 pm

Arborbridge wrote:All wonderful until you run out of battery power :( That's where a hybrid has the advantage: belt and braces. You can't beat it for peace of mind.


Arb.


Likewise until you run out of petrol / diesel, unless you are suggesting the very limited electric range on the hybrid will be useful to get you to a filling station.

Mike4
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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#399621

Postby Mike4 » March 27th, 2021, 8:04 pm

Arborbridge wrote:All wonderful until you run out of battery power :(


Ah but at least it sends you a text when it runs out of power, telling you your dog is about to die....

9873210
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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#399622

Postby 9873210 » March 27th, 2021, 8:08 pm

swill453 wrote:
dealtn wrote:Not really, as you aren't describing the situation above where there is claimed to be a single pedal (that acts as an accelerator when depressed but a brake when released - presumably).

I don't believe such a thing exists.

Someone referred to "one pedal driving", not to a BEV that had one physical pedal.

Scott.


This is used on industrial vehicles, it's a form of deadman. Take your foot off the throttle and it stops sharpish. If you back off the throttle some but not completely you get controlled braking.

But people are missing the point. Almost all BEV should be throttle and brake by wire*, It doesn't matter what the controls are, they are just inputs to a micro controller. The computer decides how much you want to slow down and then decides the best way to do it. Regenerative braking will be able to handle almost all stopping, including emergency stops which are limited by tyre traction, not motor torque. So most braking will be regenerative, no matter which controls you use.

* Most will also have backup mechanical connections to the brakes, but these only come into play if the primary computer control fails. There is usually some fancy electro-mechanical analog computer that detects failure of the computer and enables the mechanical connection,

Mechanical brakes are there for, and designed as:
1) parking brakes.
2) For finally coming to a stop at very low speed (A motor controller hitting 30+-0.1mph is fine, hitting 0+-0.1mph is disconcerting)
3) Differential braking for traction control and anti lock braking.
4) Last ditch one time backup for failed primary brake system.

Brakes that are sized for these duties will be inadequate for normal use. If you, or the computer, disables regenerative braking the mechanical brake will overheat and stop working in some normal driving.

If there are any cars that use the mechanical brake for normal stopping it is because they are crude conversions of ICE cars. These will go away in time.

Howard
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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#399735

Postby Howard » March 28th, 2021, 12:13 pm

Arborbridge wrote:All wonderful until you run out of battery power :( That's where a hybrid has the advantage: belt and braces. You can't beat it for peace of mind.


Arb.


Arb

I guess from your comments that you must be frequently travelling more than 250 miles, non stop, in your car. Obviously for you, a BEV won't do.

But for those of us who aren't using our cars for such long journeys and who charge our BEV at home, we never run out of fuel! And we never have to visit a filling station. Every morning our car is as full as we need it to be.

And on your 250 mile plus journeys, surely you have to stop for a break? My ICE car has a range of 600 miles plus. But my bladder and my alertness have a much lower range and need a break occasionally. :)

regards

Howard

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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#399747

Postby BobbyD » March 28th, 2021, 12:32 pm

Howard wrote:My ICE car has a range of 600 miles plus. But my bladder and my alertness have a much lower range and need a break occasionally. :)


I couldn't live with that, it's up to 3 miles short of John O'Groats to Lands end. What if I somehow conspired to be in a life or death race from the most westerly point on mainland GB to the most northerly? Can't afford to stop for fuel, that's insane! Cars with such a limited range will never take off...

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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#399758

Postby vrdiver » March 28th, 2021, 1:12 pm

BobbyD wrote:Cars with such a limited range will never take off...

The first aeroplane had a much more limited range, and it managed to take off...

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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#399964

Postby Arborbridge » March 29th, 2021, 7:42 am

AF62 wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:All wonderful until you run out of battery power :( That's where a hybrid has the advantage: belt and braces. You can't beat it for peace of mind.


Arb.


Likewise until you run out of petrol / diesel, unless you are suggesting the very limited electric range on the hybrid will be useful to get you to a filling station.


Funny :lol:


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