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According to the DVLA.....

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GrahamPlatt
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Re: According to the DVLA.....

#406683

Postby GrahamPlatt » April 24th, 2021, 6:24 pm

Well, in the same way one might put a notice in a newspaper to tell interested parties of something, You might argue that you’ve already told them.

http://clivebanks.co.uk/THHGTTG/THHGTTGradio1.htm

Yes. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet, stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying “Beware of the Leopard”. Ever thought of going into advertising?

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Re: According to the DVLA.....

#406694

Postby mc2fool » April 24th, 2021, 7:49 pm

Snorvey wrote:What difference does it make to them? I didn't realise I had to tell them until 5 minutes ago. It doesn't say how to contact them.

"Fill in form G1 and send it to DVLA - the address is on the form." https://www.gov.uk/broken-limbs-driving :shock:

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Re: According to the DVLA.....

#406695

Postby Lootman » April 24th, 2021, 7:51 pm

Snorvey wrote:You must tell DVLA if you’ll be unable to drive for more than 3 months because of a broken limb.

Why? What difference does it make to them?

I can just about see the logic of DVLA being informed if a doctor officially advises or instructs you not to drive. Although even in that case it would make more sense for the doctor to inform them directly rather than rely on the individual driver.

But absent that, if you have merely decided not to drive for that duration due to some medical, personal or other factor, then I would not inform them. That is a purely discretionary decision on your part, and it may be reversed at any point in time.

Also, how can anyone reasonably know in advance how long an incapacity might prevent you or deter you from driving?

Finally, with a vehicle with automatic transmission, a broken limb would not necessarily prevent you from driving.

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Re: According to the DVLA.....

#406697

Postby Mike4 » April 24th, 2021, 7:59 pm

I predict they would respond by telling you your driving licence is suspended for three months and you are not to drive.

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Re: According to the DVLA.....

#406703

Postby Mike4 » April 24th, 2021, 8:35 pm

Oh yeah, and after the three months you can apply for your licence back, fee £65.

Just a wild guess, mind....

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Re: According to the DVLA.....

#406707

Postby Lootman » April 24th, 2021, 8:43 pm

Mike4 wrote:I predict they would respond by telling you your driving licence is suspended for three months and you are not to drive.

Oh yeah, and after the three months you can apply for your licence back, fee £65.

Just a wild guess, mind....

Not that wild. It is easy to see ways in which such voluntary self-reporting might come back to bite you in the butt.

Owning up to a disability, even if only a temporary one, might later become available information to interested parties in the event of an accident, insurance claim or lawsuit. In fact any documented gap in the validity of your license could be misinterpreted and/or possibly used against you.

Note here that I am not suggesting that anyone hide a genuine reason why it might be unsafe or illegal to drive. And certainly not that they should drive in that case. Only that IF you have already made a decision not to drive for some months, for whatever reason, THEN it should not matter whether or not you inform DVLA that you are doing that. It is a personal decision whether you drive or not.

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Re: According to the DVLA.....

#406709

Postby Mike4 » April 24th, 2021, 8:52 pm

Lootman wrote:Not that wild.



No. My post was inspired by Gas Safe Register who emailed all of us at the very start of all the pandemic, telling us to inform them should we elect to isolate and stop carrying out gas work.

In the small print it said they would suspend our gas registration and anyone caught working without informing Gas Safe Register that they had returned to work would be liable to prosecution.

So weird, the bureaucratic mind these days.

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Re: According to the DVLA.....

#406717

Postby ten0rman » April 24th, 2021, 9:44 pm

In 2007 I was diagnosed with Menieres Disease which caused me to have dizzy spells. Ultimately I had two operations which mostly cured the dizziness - except that I noticed that occasionally if I had something else go wrong, eg a toothache, then I could still get a mild form of dizziness but a dose or three of Betahistine was usually sufficient in getting rid of it.

Then on New Years Eve 2015 I had the mother and father of a dizzy attack, quite frightening really and so I voluntarily stopped driving and reported myself to DVLA. In fact, 2 weeks later I had a mild heart attack so was off driving for a month anyway. Ultimately DVLA contacted my GP surgery and 6 months later (there was a cockup in DVLA which only got resolved when I queried it) I was officially told that I met the requirements for driving. Since then I have been OK.

At one point, when I changed insurance companies I was asked about health so I declared what had happened. The ins co then asked if I had reported it to DVLA and what was the result. They were then happy that I had been passed as fit to drive.

So, my experience then, is that by reporting myself, and getting the ok from DVLA, I satisfied the insurance companies requirements.

HTH,

ten0rman

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Re: According to the DVLA.....

#406720

Postby Lootman » April 24th, 2021, 9:51 pm

ten0rman wrote: I voluntarily stopped driving and reported myself to DVLA. In fact, 2 weeks later I had a mild heart attack so was off driving for a month anyway. Ultimately DVLA contacted my GP surgery and 6 months later . . I was officially told that I met the requirements for driving.

How would DVLA even know who your GP is? It is not asked for on driver or vehicle registration or renewal forms, as far as I have seen.

Unless of course you are supposed to provide that information when you contact DVLA about a medical issue?

Edit: I now see that information is asked for on the G1 form cited above.

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Re: According to the DVLA.....

#406739

Postby DrFfybes » April 25th, 2021, 8:41 am

Mike4 wrote:No. My post was inspired by Gas Safe Register who emailed all of us at the very start of all the pandemic, telling us to inform them should we elect to isolate and stop carrying out gas work.

In the small print it said they would suspend our gas registration and anyone caught working without informing Gas Safe Register that they had returned to work would be liable to prosecution.

So weird, the bureaucratic mind these days.


That sounds like someome was told they had to have a Covid plan, so came up with one. Someone else then realised that suspending someone from the register required a de-suspension, so added it further down. In reality I can see no reaon why this was needed.

Do they also have one for Typhoid, plague, Ebola, Bird flu, etc etc.


Back to the OP - A FOI request should yield how many G1 forms have ever been submitted.

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Re: According to the DVLA.....

#406827

Postby Lootman » April 25th, 2021, 2:49 pm

DrFfybes wrote: A FOI request should yield how many G1 forms have ever been submitted.

That would be interesting. Based on ten0rman's account there are at least two fundamental problems with submitting a G1 form:

1) If DVLA can just ring up your GP and get a medical assessment of you, then any semblance of doctor/patient confidentiality is blown out of the water. Given that doctors are usually guarded about revealing a patient's medical history, even to the point of not giving such information to the police, then I can only assume that signing and sending a G1 form waives any right by the driver to medical privacy and confidentiality. (*)

2) Once that G1 form is submitted, it sounds like the decision of whether or not to drive has been taken out of the driver's hands. It effectively becomes a decision made between DVLA and your doctor. As such any power over the matter is given up upon submission of that form.

Taking (1) and (2) together, it seems probable that many individuals will prefer to keep things private and confidential, and not submit the form. And as long as one does not drive when one is not able to safely do so, it doesn't really matter either way. The main risk of getting caught driving when one is not able to, is if you actually drive. If all you do is stay home then what is the point, to echo the OP's original question?

After all, there must be many people who have a license but do not own a vehicle and never drive. A DL is useful for other purposes, e.g. identification, proof of age and address, and so on.

(*) I wonder further whether it might deter someone from visiting a doctor, if they fear information about their problem might be shared with others. Or it might be an argument to seek a medical professional who is not a government employee. Or even not a real doctor. :D

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Re: According to the DVLA.....

#406833

Postby chas49 » April 25th, 2021, 3:20 pm

Lootman wrote:
DrFfybes wrote: A FOI request should yield how many G1 forms have ever been submitted.

That would be interesting. Based on ten0rman's account there are at least two fundamental problems with submitting a G1 form:

1) If DVLA can just ring up your GP and get a medical assessment of you, then any semblance of doctor/patient confidentiality is blown out of the water. Given that doctors are usually guarded about revealing a patient's medical history, even to the point of not giving such information to the police, then I can only assume that signing and sending a G1 form waives any right by the driver to medical privacy and confidentiality. (*)

....

(*) I wonder further whether it might deter someone from visiting a doctor, if they fear information about their problem might be shared with others. Or it might be an argument to seek a medical professional who is not a government employee. Or even not a real doctor. :D


The declaration at the end of the form G1 includes this:

I authorise my Doctor(s) and Specialist(s) to release reports/medical information about my condition relevant to my fitness
to drive, to the Secretary of State’s medical adviser.
I understand that the Secretary of State may disclose such relevant medical information as is necessary to the investigation
of my fitness to drive to doctors, orthoptists, paramedical staff and panel members.
I declare that I have checked the details I have given on the enclosed questionnaire and that, to the best of my knowledge
and belief they are correct.
“I understand that it is a criminal offence if I make a false declaration to obtain a driving licence and can lead to
prosecution.”

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Re: According to the DVLA.....

#406850

Postby Lootman » April 25th, 2021, 5:05 pm

chas49 wrote:The declaration at the end of the form G1 includes this:

“I understand that it is a criminal offence if I make a false declaration to obtain a driving licence and can lead to
prosecution.”

No doubt. But the topic here is not applying for or obtaining a driving license. The assumption is that you already have one.

The topic is the prudence and timing of volunteering information that might cause your license to be revoked. Anyone doing so needs to be aware of the risks and implications of signing away their rights, privacy and control.

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Re: According to the DVLA.....

#406861

Postby chas49 » April 25th, 2021, 5:55 pm

Lootman wrote:
chas49 wrote:The declaration at the end of the form G1 includes this:

“I understand that it is a criminal offence if I make a false declaration to obtain a driving licence and can lead to
prosecution.”

No doubt. But the topic here is not applying for or obtaining a driving license. The assumption is that you already have one.

The topic is the prudence and timing of volunteering information that might cause your license to be revoked. Anyone doing so needs to be aware of the risks and implications of signing away their rights, privacy and control.


It's not my words but those of the DVLA - looks like they've copied/pasted the declaration onto the form!

And actually the topic (as posted by the OP) was:

Snorvey wrote:You must tell DVLA if you’ll be unable to drive for more than 3 months because of a broken limb.

Why?

What difference does it make to them?.....


The answer to both questions is simple. Section 94 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 says you have to tell them. It's not a matter of prudence or timing. It is an offence not to tell them.

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Re: According to the DVLA.....

#406862

Postby Gersemi » April 25th, 2021, 6:00 pm

chas49 wrote:
Lootman wrote:
chas49 wrote:The declaration at the end of the form G1 includes this:

“I understand that it is a criminal offence if I make a false declaration to obtain a driving licence and can lead to
prosecution.”

No doubt. But the topic here is not applying for or obtaining a driving license. The assumption is that you already have one.

The topic is the prudence and timing of volunteering information that might cause your license to be revoked. Anyone doing so needs to be aware of the risks and implications of signing away their rights, privacy and control.


It's not my words but those of the DVLA - looks like they've copied/pasted the declaration onto the form!

And actually the topic (as posted by the OP) was:

Snorvey wrote:You must tell DVLA if you’ll be unable to drive for more than 3 months because of a broken limb.

Why?

What difference does it make to them?.....


The answer to both questions is simple. Section 94 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 says you have to tell them. It's not a matter of prudence or timing. It is an offence not to tell them.


Indeed - and you can be fined up to £1,000 if you do not tell DVLA about a medical condition that affects your driving. (https://www.gov.uk/health-conditions-and-driving) and you must give up your licence if your medical condition affects your ability to drive safely and lasts for 3 months or more.

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Re: According to the DVLA.....

#406868

Postby Lootman » April 25th, 2021, 6:16 pm

chas49 wrote:
Lootman wrote:
chas49 wrote:The declaration at the end of the form G1 includes this:

“I understand that it is a criminal offence if I make a false declaration to obtain a driving licence and can lead to
prosecution.”

No doubt. But the topic here is not applying for or obtaining a driving license. The assumption is that you already have one.

The topic is the prudence and timing of volunteering information that might cause your license to be revoked. Anyone doing so needs to be aware of the risks and implications of signing away their rights, privacy and control.

actually the topic (as posted by the OP) was:

Snorvey wrote:You must tell DVLA if you’ll be unable to drive for more than 3 months because of a broken limb.

Why? What difference does it make to them?.....

The answer to both questions is simple. Section 94 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 says you have to tell them. It's not a matter of prudence or timing. It is an offence not to tell them.

But this is not the legal board, and Snorvey was not asking what the law was. In fact it was obvious that he already knew the rule and was instead asking about the reasons behind that rule. And by implication how important it was to follow the exact letter of the law rather than the spirit of it.

The purpose of that provision of the Road Traffic Act 1988 is to prevent people who are not fit to drive from actually driving. Far enough. But the question being asked here was more about the appropriateness and risks of disclosure. Nobody suggested that Snorvey drive with both arms in a cast.

I had never considered the issue before reading this topic. Had I been invalided in the past, it would never have crossed my mind to notify DVLA. I simply would have not driven again until I was fully capable. And in that case, to the original question, where would the harm have been?

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Re: According to the DVLA.....

#406880

Postby chas49 » April 25th, 2021, 6:47 pm

Lootman wrote:But this is not the legal board, and Snorvey was not asking what the law was. In fact it was obvious that he already knew the rule and was instead asking about the reasons behind that rule. And by implication how important it was to follow the exact letter of the law rather than the spirit of it.



We are allowed to give legal answers on other boards, so it's really not relevant that this isn't the Legal board. As I read it, the question was "Why doi I have to tell DVLA" - and a valid answer is "because it's an offence not to".

And following "the exact letter of the law" would mean reporting it even if you think it unnecessary.

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Re: According to the DVLA.....

#406885

Postby chas49 » April 25th, 2021, 7:21 pm

Snorvey wrote:If the consultant signs me off as fit to drive(whenever that might be) then the DVLA can't put any blockers on that can they? And that would be sufficient for the insurance company too, I'm assuming.



I assume so!
Snorvey wrote:And following "the exact letter of the law" would mean reporting it even if you think it unnecessary.

I hear wryhaat youre saying. But if i accidentally did 70 in a 60 should i tell them about that too?


The law doesn't say you have to report yourself for speeding. It does say you have to notify DVLA about certain prescribed medical conditions. (And I didn't know that a broken limb was one either - but Ignorantia juris non excusat :) )

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Re: According to the DVLA.....

#406891

Postby Lootman » April 25th, 2021, 7:55 pm

Snorvey wrote:If the consultant signs me off as fit to drive(whenever that might be) then the DVLA can't put any blockers on that can they? And that would be sufficient for the insurance company too, I'm assuming.

If you are declared back to 100% fit and mobile then there would be no rational reason for either DVLA or your insurance company to deny you the same rights as you had before the accident.

But of course that doesn't allow for bureaucratic delay, mulishness, paranoia and incompetence getting in the way. That is the risk that you take in impeccably self-reporting the situation now.

If I understood you correctly earlier, then your doctor never explicitly told you not to drive AND he never said your incapacity would last more than 3 months. So in my view you have plausible deniability if you choose not to disclose at this point in time. If you still cannot drive after the 3 month point, and/or some level of permanent disability is determined, that is a different matter.

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Re: According to the DVLA.....

#406958

Postby didds » April 26th, 2021, 8:08 am

I may have missed something so apologies of I have...

if one breaks a limb and it will be > 3 months (think that was the time limit) before driving again one informs the DVLA.

4 months later limb is all better and one can drive again. Does one have to now inform the DVLA all is repaired before one can drive again? And if so does one have to wait for acknowledgement from DVLA before beign permitted? Cos that may take weeks!

didds


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