Skoda Octavia Estate hybrid

[brightncheerful]

Following on from 'Car for a Dog' - the thought of p/ex fill me with glee much to Mrs Bnc's annoyance - I nearly bought an Octavia Estate diesel (ex-demo) until my local garage advised strongly against, based on my driving habits. Some 6 years ago when I changed my Audi A3 diesel to an Audi A1 petrol, I was advised by an Audi rep not to get another diesel because things had changed since the diesel i'd had and short journeys (a couple of miles or so) were effectively out of the question. So to some extent it was surprising that i was going to get an Octavia diesel since that would've meant ignoring the advice of long ago. I think i was 'misled' by the Skoda dealership into thinking that provided I would give the car a long run once a week that would be enough to counteract short journeys every day or so. My local garage said that would only be the case if each short journey included an extra 15 miles or so at a higher speed.

Anyhow, I have managed to get an ex-demo Octavia Estate petrol hybrid (first registered 2021) with a provisional delivery to me by the end of this week. Mrs Bnc is busy pouring over every youtube review she can find as well as educating herself on how to drive an automatic (DSG) which is not something she has ever done.

With a hybrid, as i understand one either charges the battery and/or the car charges the battery when driven in petrol mode. When in petrol mode, presumably the car has to be instructed not to use the battery, or else the charging would or could be affected by the use of the battery whilst driving.

My questions are:

1. Assuming it takes up to 6 hours to charge the battery using a standard 3 pin plug but 3 hours with a 7Kw charger?, would charging the battery more quickly make any difference to the number of electricity units consumed?

2. Assuming the battery is flat when driving, the car is running on petrol only, how long (driving time) would it take for the car to charge the battery
to full; and 2.1 does it make any difference to the charging time depending upon the speed that the car is travelling at?

tia
Bnc

[brightncheerful]

Mrs Bnc has just sent me this review of the car we are getting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHMV5dLeGvI

[staffordian]

I'm no expert, but to help others who are, can you clarify the type of hybrid?

From what you're asking I'm assuming it's a PHEV (Plug in Hybrid) which definitely gives you the option of home charging from the mains. Not sure a 13 amp socket is ideal for this but it is generally the case that keeping it fully charged via the household electricity supply will mean many short runs are done using just the electric motor, and this is generally cheaper than using the petrol engine (not sure how crucial a good electricity tariff is for this, but clearly a cheap night rate and night charging will save more). Getting a proper charger will obviously mean faster (and safer?) charging, but as far as I can see, it shouldn't cost more per charge regardless of how quickly or slowly the battery charges. (I guess negligible differences might occur depending on charging speed if, for example, a higher rate generates more heat in the battery).

With a PHEV, I'm not sure if, or by how much the petrol engine will charge the battery. Braking will put some juice into the battery, thoughthe amout will depend on the driver determining the degree of regeneration. Looking logically at the possibility the petrol engine charging the battery, then the more power the petrol engine is using to power the car, the less would be available to charge the battery, so if this were possible, logic suggests driving slowly would be better, but I'm not convinced this is a valid charging method.

I'll be interested to hear other's opinions on this as I see PHEVs as useful half way houses to full BEVs pending a decent charging infrastructure appearing.

Edit: I see from your second post that it definitely is a PHEV.

[Howard]

My questions are:

1. Assuming it takes up to 6 hours to charge the battery using a standard 3 pin plug but 3 hours with a 7Kw charger?, would charging the battery more quickly make any difference to the number of electricity units consumed?

2. Assuming the battery is flat when driving, the car is running on petrol only, how long (driving time) would it take for the car to charge the battery
to full; and 2.1 does it make any difference to the charging time depending upon the speed that the car is travelling at?

tia
Bnc

Looking at the YouTube video, I'm not sure this is the car you will be getting?

But, having driven a PHEV for two years I will have a go at answering your questions assuming you are getting a plug in hybrid.

It is pretty safe to assume that driving a Skoda hybrid will be virtually the same experience as driving a Skoda petrol or diesel. As a driver you don't have to make any decisions. The car will do those for you and you won't be aware of whether the car is being moved by the petrol engine or the electric motor or both. If you aren't used to an automatic, this will be far more of a change for you than the hybrid motive power.

The slight difference in driving is that when you "start" the car, you won't hear any noise. Driven gently the electric motor will take you up to around 50 or 60 mph but if you put your foot down at any speed the petrol engine will start and seamlessly take over. Generally speaking one has to look at the dashboard display to see which engine is operating and after a few days you probably won't bother to do this.

In answer to question 1. Unless you are rich, you probably won't pay £600 plus to have a 7 kW charger installed. Plugging the car into a 13 amp socket will charge the battery fully in around 4 - 5 hours, although you can opt for a slower charge if you want to. So, assuming you have a suitable 13 amp socket, you will probably plug the car in at the end of the day and the next morning it will be fully charged. Having a faster charger is unnecessary.

2. The car battery won't go completely "flat" when you are driving, it will always have some charge and will replenish this a little when you brake or slow down. Let's assume the battery only range is 20 miles and you drive slowly on electric power until it is very low. Then the petrol engine will take over seamlessly and you'll use petrol to carry on in the normal way.

Our experience was that a PHEV was really economical to drive and the electric motor made the car quiet and smooth.

Hope you enjoy your new car. Let us know how you get on.

regards

Howard

PS The PHEV (leased for two years) was so good, we were converted to EV. Our second car is now fully electric.

PPS Others may tell you that a 7 kW charger costs less than £600. I researched this and no responsible electrician would install a charger and 32 amp supply for less because of the earthing issues and the sensible government safety regulations involved. And this is after a £350 grant.

[Dod101]

One practical point re a 13 amp plug for charging. Do you get these with a lock or do you need to switch them off from a secure location? My car is kept on my driveway and I would need on of these outside all weather protected plugs? But what is the point a a plug in hybrid anyway? Why not just rely on the battery being charged independently with the petrol engine? I am totally ignorant of anything to do with an electric vehicle.

Dod

[jackdaww]

.

i wonder if this car will tow a small caravan - say 1000kgs .

many people are towing 1500kgs and more , i dont know if an EV or HEV will manage that , also what the range would be.

[Howard]

One practical point re a 13 amp plug for charging. Do you get these with a lock or do you need to switch them off from a secure location? My car is kept on my driveway and I would need on of these outside all weather protected plugs? But what is the point a a plug in hybrid anyway? Why not just rely on the battery being charged independently with the petrol engine? I am totally ignorant of anything to do with an electric vehicle.

Dod

The car will lock the plug in when the car is locked. At the 13 amp socket end some owners plug this into their garage and run the cable under/beside the locked garage door. I was fortunate in having a fairly large garage and keep our cars in there overnight.

I'm not promoting a PHEV, but the advantages for us were a very quiet, smooth, powerful BMW which achieved over 70 mpg over two years despite being used for a lot of frequent shorter journeys. After allowing for the cost of electricity, the notional consumption would have been around 55 mpg. For virtually all our short drives the car only used electricity.

A car with an electric motor is uncannily quiet around town. And "Which" magazine suggest that hybrids are more reliable than petrol or diesel cars over long periods. In their car surveys over 20 years, Toyota come out as very reliable cars and their explanation is that the electric motor reduces the stress on the ICE engines, especially in starting off.

regards

Howard

[scrumpyjack]

Bear in mind that many supermarkets now have free 7kw charging points (our local Tesco has 6 of them). That would help substantially charging your car for free when you go shopping.

[Mike4]

One practical point re a 13 amp plug for charging. Do you get these with a lock or do you need to switch them off from a secure location? My car is kept on my driveway and I would need on of these outside all weather protected plugs? But what is the point a a plug in hybrid anyway? Why not just rely on the battery being charged independently with the petrol engine? I am totally ignorant of anything to do with an electric vehicle.

Dod

Because that way, one is still driving around using 100% fossil fuel, albeit rather more economically.

The point of going electric is to charge it using solar and wind-generated leccy instead of CO2-creating fossil fuel, thereby saving the planet.

[brightncheerful]

My questions are:

1. Assuming it takes up to 6 hours to charge the battery using a standard 3 pin plug but 3 hours with a 7Kw charger?, would charging the battery more quickly make any difference to the number of electricity units consumed?

2. Assuming the battery is flat when driving, the car is running on petrol only, how long (driving time) would it take for the car to charge the battery
to full; and 2.1 does it make any difference to the charging time depending upon the speed that the car is travelling at?

tia
Bnc

Looking at the YouTube video, I'm not sure this is the car you will be getting?

But, having driven a PHEV for two years I will have a go at answering your questions assuming you are getting a plug in hybrid.

It is pretty safe to assume that driving a Skoda hybrid will be virtually the same experience as driving a Skoda petrol or diesel. As a driver you don't have to make any decisions. The car will do those for you and you won't be aware of whether the car is being moved by the petrol engine or the electric motor or both. If you aren't used to an automatic, this will be far more of a change for you than the hybrid motive power.

The slight difference in driving is that when you "start" the car, you won't hear any noise. Driven gently the electric motor will take you up to around 50 or 60 mph but if you put your foot down at any speed the petrol engine will start and seamlessly take over. Generally speaking one has to look at the dashboard display to see which engine is operating and after a few days you probably won't bother to do this.

In answer to question 1. Unless you are rich, you probably won't pay £600 plus to have a 7 kW charger installed. Plugging the car into a 13 amp socket will charge the battery fully in around 4 - 5 hours, although you can opt for a slower charge if you want to. So, assuming you have a suitable 13 amp socket, you will probably plug the car in at the end of the day and the next morning it will be fully charged. Having a faster charger is unnecessary.

2. The car battery won't go completely "flat" when you are driving, it will always have some charge and will replenish this a little when you brake or slow down. Let's assume the battery only range is 20 miles and you drive slowly on electric power until it is very low. Then the petrol engine will take over seamlessly and you'll use petrol to carry on in the normal way.

Our experience was that a PHEV was really economical to drive and the electric motor made the car quiet and smooth.

Hope you enjoy your new car. Let us know how you get on.

regards

Howard

PS The PHEV (leased for two years) was so good, we were converted to EV. Our second car is now fully electric.

PPS Others may tell you that a 7 kW charger costs less than £600. I researched this and no responsible electrician would install a charger and 32 amp supply for less because of the earthing issues and the sensible government safety regulations involved. And this is after a £350 grant.

Thank you.

The car i"m getting is Škoda Octavia Estate 1.4 TSI iV vRS 5dr DSG petrol, first registration March 2021
https://www.whatcar.com/skoda/octavia/estate/14-tsi-iv-vrs-5dr-dsg/95823

I am used to driving automatic, it's Mrs Bnc that's not.

My builder (in-house electrician) has quoted me £700 to have a 7kw charger installed. He says I can apply for a grant which might bring in anything between £100 and £400. Plugging the car in at the end of the day to charge overnight (at the cheaper night rate, i pay 11.61p/kWh) won't be possible for the time being because the nearest mains socket is in the garage and I won't risk leaving the garage door open all night (there is no gap for the cable to pass through). The charger would be fixed on the outside of the garage. I'm told it takes about 6 hours to charge the battery using a 13amp socket, and about 3 hours with a 7kw charger. From what you say, I could get an extra socket with a waterproof casing installed on the outside,

The slight difference in driving is that when you "start" the car, you won't hear any noise.

That'll please the neighbours, especially on days I leave at around 5.15am.


--

Bear in mind that many supermarkets now have free 7kw charging points (our local Tesco has 6 of them). That would help substantially charging your car for free when you go shopping.

.

Thank you - but I don't think the Waitrose I go to has any. I'd be disloyal if I were to spend money at any other supermarket.

[GrahamPlatt]

Drill a hole in your garage wall and pass a cable through.

[brightncheerful]

.

i wonder if this car will tow a small caravan - say 1000kgs .

many people are towing 1500kgs and more , i dont know if an EV or HEV will manage that , also what the range would be.

According to this review -

https://www.whatcar.com/skoda/octavia/estate/14-tsi-iv-vrs-5dr-dsg/95823#specification

- max towing weight is 1500kg

[brightncheerful]

Drill a hole in your garage wall and pass a cable through.

Good idea, I'll consider. Have to be careful not to prejudice the integrity of the brick column (the only wall as such) as it supports the door mechanism.

[brightncheerful]

I'm no expert, but to help others who are, can you clarify the type of hybrid?

From what you're asking I'm assuming it's a PHEV (Plug in Hybrid) which definitely gives you the option of home charging from the mains. Not sure a 13 amp socket is ideal for this but it is generally the case that keeping it fully charged via the household electricity supply will mean many short runs are done using just the electric motor, and this is generally cheaper than using the petrol engine (not sure how crucial a good electricity tariff is for this, but clearly a cheap night rate and night charging will save more). Getting a proper charger will obviously mean faster (and safer?) charging, but as far as I can see, it shouldn't cost more per charge regardless of how quickly or slowly the battery charges. (I guess negligible differences might occur depending on charging speed if, for example, a higher rate generates more heat in the battery).

With a PHEV, I'm not sure if, or by how much the petrol engine will charge the battery. Braking will put some juice into the battery, thoughthe amout will depend on the driver determining the degree of regeneration. Looking logically at the possibility the petrol engine charging the battery, then the more power the petrol engine is using to power the car, the less would be available to charge the battery, so if this were possible, logic suggests driving slowly would be better, but I'm not convinced this is a valid charging method.

I'll be interested to hear other's opinions on this as I see PHEVs as useful half way houses to full BEVs pending a decent charging infrastructure appearing.

Edit: I see from your second post that it definitely is a PHEV.

Thank you. My reply to Howard includes comments relevant to yours.

[AF62]

With a hybrid, as i understand one either charges the battery and/or the car charges the battery when driven in petrol mode. When in petrol mode, presumably the car has to be instructed not to use the battery, or else the charging would or could be affected by the use of the battery whilst driving.

My questions are:

1. Assuming it takes up to 6 hours to charge the battery using a standard 3 pin plug but 3 hours with a 7Kw charger?, would charging the battery more quickly make any difference to the number of electricity units consumed?

2. Assuming the battery is flat when driving, the car is running on petrol only, how long (driving time) would it take for the car to charge the battery
to full; and 2.1 does it make any difference to the charging time depending upon the speed that the car is travelling at?

tia
Bnc

The Škoda Octavia Estate 1.4 TSI iV vRS 5dr DSG petrol you have bought has a 13kW battery which has a theoretical electric only range of 37 miles. Nobody achieves the theoretical range unless driving on the flat with no traffic in Californian sunshine like a nun, so 25 miles on electric only is more likely.

The car does have different modes where you can choose electric only (until the battery is flat) or you let the car work out what is best. Unless you are in an ULEZ where ICE cars are banned then I doubt you will use the first option and you will instead just let the car work it out. So going back to the electric only range, it doesn't matter. The car will use electric where it is sensible - starting up, low speed 'stop / start', extra boost when you floor it, etc. with the benefit of some cheap mileage if you charge it and increased MPG if you don't.

A 3 pin plug charger will charge it in about 3 hours. A 7kW home charger (or the type that places such as Tesco have) will take half that time. The speed of charge makes no difference to the amount of electricity consumed. When the battery gets to around 80% full then the charging speed slows down significantly, which is why many people just charge up to 80 to 90% and stop there.

If you do plug it in you will be one of a significant minority, as most PHEVs are simply sold for the tax breaks, with the owners just wanting a cheap to own petrol car.

The car does not charge the battery from the petrol engine, but charges it from regenerative braking. So if you used the car in town then the battery will keep itself topped up, but on a long journey with little braking it will run itself down.

Some electric cars have the option you can select for a more aggressive form of regenerative braking which effectively means 'one pedal' driving as when you lift off the accelerator the car doesn't coast (I know not coasting as if you put it neutral, but you know what I mean) but immediately starts to slow down, but not using the brakes but using the electric motor to put energy back into the battery. It can be a bit odd at first, and to be honest I don't find such a mode very good when driving out on the open road where you may be lifting off for a corner but don't want to actively brake, but it is fine to use in congested traffic in town.

[jackdaww]

.

is this car then what is commonly labelled as a "mild hybrid" ? - ie having quite a small battery and hence a lowish battery only range .

[DrFfybes]

...driving... in Californian sunshine like a nun

Now there's a simile I never thought I'd see

But everything else I would agree with entirely.

Paul

[richlist]

No it's a plug in hybrid vehicle ....PHEV.

[Dod101]

No it's a plug in hybrid vehicle ....PHEV.

And it seems singularly useless as an electric car except maybe as a town runabout.

Dod

[Howard]

Thank you.

The car i"m getting is Škoda Octavia Estate 1.4 TSI iV vRS 5dr DSG petrol, first registration March 2021
https://www.whatcar.com/skoda/octavia/estate/14-tsi-iv-vrs-5dr-dsg/95823

I am used to driving automatic, it's Mrs Bnc that's not.

My builder (in-house electrician) has quoted me £700 to have a 7kw charger installed. He says I can apply for a grant which might bring in anything between £100 and £400. Plugging the car in at the end of the day to charge overnight (at the cheaper night rate, i pay 11.61p/kWh) won't be possible for the time being because the nearest mains socket is in the garage and I won't risk leaving the garage door open all night (there is no gap for the cable to pass through). The charger would be fixed on the outside of the garage. I'm told it takes about 6 hours to charge the battery using a 13amp socket, and about 3 hours with a 7kw charger. From what you say, I could get an extra socket with a waterproof casing installed on the outside,

Is your builder quoting for a tethered charger? If not, you will need a charging cable which will cost more than £100.

It is just possible that your car will come with two cables, one for 13 amp and a wall charger cable (probably a type 2). Our PHEV did not include a type 2 cable but this is worth checking. And if you use the car's cable it will involve unplugging it and putting it in the car every charge if you might want to use a public charger.

It is also worth checking how you might claim the grant. To do this, you will need to prove that you have a Smart Charger installed and earthed and connected in line with the regulations to your router. My installer did all this. I'm a competent investor and did some Physics at Uni but wouldn't want to tackle the responsibility and bureaucracy of getting the NIC EIC certificate of compliance for the installation submitting this and answering the detailed safety questionnaire. I know you are a details person, and your builder might help, but it looked like a lot of admin to me! And a 32 amp supply is a powerful beast especially if fitted outdoors.

Having looked at the spec of the actual car you are getting, it has a quoted range of 40 miles on electric power which is really good for a PHEV (twice the range of the 2016 car we drove). I'd still consider just charging from a 13 amp supply to start with as it will easily charge the car overnight and, frankly at around 12p per kWh it's less than £2 of electricity per charge. If you do want to install a charger later then you will have the experience of driving the car and may change your mind as to the ideal position for installing the charger. I do admit that I did get a charger installed for our BEV, but it has a range of 280 miles and so a much bigger battery.

The advantage of getting the car first and using 13 amps is that you just might change your mind as to the ideal site for a charger. My neighbours installed a charger in their garden behind their gate and when the electric car arrived they realised that the car socket was not where they expected. This means reversing in next to their other car, a little bit of a hassle. (I'm sure Mrs BnC would enjoy the challenge!)

Your Skoda gets very good reviews, so hopefully you will be very pleased with it.

regards

Howard