Octavia Estate hybrid: the reality?

[swill453]

There are two different things here:
1) What the car does when there is no useable charge in the battery.
2) When the car decides there is no useable charge in the battery,

This option affects the second, but there is no reason it should affect the first. From the cars point of view

• There is no useable charge because it's near the end of a long trip.
• There is no useable charge because it was not plugged in.
• There is no useable charge because the driver is reserving charge for later use.

Should all result in using the same mode, which should include a normal HEV mode where the engine runs periodically at peak efficiency to move the car while charging the battery.

I disagree, I think.

Let's say I make daily relatively short trips from home, but which use up all the charge in the battery and need the petrol engine to kick in for the remainder. Then when I get home I always plug it in to fully charge overnight.

With that usage pattern (which must be quite typical), I don't ever want to use the petrol engine to charge the battery.

Scott.

[AF62]

There are two different things here:
1) What the car does when there is no useable charge in the battery.
2) When the car decides there is no useable charge in the battery,

This option affects the second, but there is no reason it should affect the first. From the cars point of view

• There is no useable charge because it's near the end of a long trip.
• There is no useable charge because it was not plugged in.
• There is no useable charge because the driver is reserving charge for later use.

Should all result in using the same mode, which should include a normal HEV mode where the engine runs periodically at peak efficiency to move the car while charging the battery.

I disagree, I think.

Let's say I make daily relatively short trips from home, but which use up all the charge in the battery and need the petrol engine to kick in for the remainder. Then when I get home I always plug it in to fully charge overnight.

With that usage pattern (which must be quite typical), I don't ever want to use the petrol engine to charge the battery.

Scott.

Which is why charging the battery using petrol is an option in the Skoda Octavia that would need to be specifically activated.

It is pretty unlikely that no matter how efficient the petrol engine is, it will be cheaper to charge the battery using petrol compared to using mains electricity for as little as 5p/kWh (or even free at many places), so it is unlikely that many people will choose to activate it.

[9873210]

Let's say I make daily relatively short trips from home, but which use up all the charge in the battery and need the petrol engine to kick in for the remainder. Then when I get home I always plug it in to fully charge overnight.

With that usage pattern (which must be quite typical), I don't ever want to use the petrol engine to charge the battery.

Scott.

You don't want it to fully charge the battery. You do want to partially charge the battery. If you're in city traffic with a discharged battery you can either run the engine at somewhat above idle continually or periodically run the engine at peak efficiency for a few minutes to charge the battery. The later is much more efficient.

Sure if you end up partially charging the battery right before you stop and plug in you waste some fuel. But avoiding that requires the car to perfectly predicting the future. Even if you could perfectly predict the future if you're driving with the battery fully discharged for more than a few minutes you still want to partially charge the battery.

[Mike4]

Rather like a car will display average MPG or l/100KM, it displays average 'miles per kW'. At the moment with the slightly warmer weather it is showing 4.1 miles per kW, which will equate to around 205 miles if the 50kW battery is fully charged, earlier in the year with cooler weather and slightly harder driving it was around 3.7 miles per kW.

May I, in the nicest possible way, query your use of kW here please?

Forgive me please, but dimensional analysis was something incessantly drummed into us at college and I think the units should be KwHrs (kiloWatt x Hours) not kW. Dimensional analysis has been a hobby horse of mine ever since. Using the wrong units leads to endless confusion in people trying to learn about a subject, don't ask me how I know!

A Watt is a unit of power, i.e. the rate at which work is being done (or in this case, energy used). So the capacity of a battery needs to be the rate multiplied by the time it can deliver that rate for, and could be stated in KwHrs, i.e. its ability to deliver X kW of power for Y Hours. Consequently one also measures the miles a car can do in miles per KwHr, not miles per kW. Speed for example, would lend itself to being measured in kW as both are divided by time.

[swill453]

You don't want it to fully charge the battery. You do want to partially charge the battery. If you're in city traffic with a discharged battery you can either run the engine at somewhat above idle continually or periodically run the engine at peak efficiency for a few minutes to charge the battery. The later is much more efficient.

Sure if you end up partially charging the battery right before you stop and plug in you waste some fuel. But avoiding that requires the car to perfectly predicting the future. Even if you could perfectly predict the future if you're driving with the battery fully discharged for more than a few minutes you still want to partially charge the battery.

I still don't agree that I want to use petrol to charge the battery when I can do it more cheaply at home plugging it in.

Scott.

[9873210]

You don't want it to fully charge the battery. You do want to partially charge the battery. If you're in city traffic with a discharged battery you can either run the engine at somewhat above idle continually or periodically run the engine at peak efficiency for a few minutes to charge the battery. The later is much more efficient.

Sure if you end up partially charging the battery right before you stop and plug in you waste some fuel. But avoiding that requires the car to perfectly predicting the future. Even if you could perfectly predict the future if you're driving with the battery fully discharged for more than a few minutes you still want to partially charge the battery.

I still don't agree that I want to use petrol to charge the battery when I can do it more cheaply at home plugging it in.

Scott.

You can't charge at home when you're not at home. You're creeping along the South Circular at 5mph with no useable charge in the battery.

[swill453]

You can't charge at home when you're not at home. You're creeping along the South Circular at 5mph with no useable charge in the battery.

The scenario where that's not happening is far more likely.

Scott.

[brightncheerful]

Octavia lets me to select a percentage of the charge to keep in reserve. Presumably for when I have almost run out of petrol and can drive to my destination on the charge available?

---

Saturday afternoon last decided to charge battery. Sunny afternoon, no rain forecast.

First, how best to park the car to allow for length of cable. Just about able to connect cable to car and plug to wall socket with charger suspended, not ideal. Second, find out how to unlock flap over car end. Unlock car, flap click manual. Lock car, flap does not close of its own accord. Remember o check that flap is closed after finishing charging.

Third, Work out how to attach and detach cable end to car. After trying to detach cable end from car, discover that I have to unlock car to detach cable.

Fourth, both ends connected, switch on wall plug. What do the lights mean? Ah ha, initial check charger is working. Fading green light charging in progress.

Now what?
Stand outside of car to look at dashboard. assume amber warning light is warning of charging. Estimated time 6 hours. Whilst with puppy in garden I count duration of in-garden-time in seconds, for example 5 minutes = 300, 6 hours = 21600 seconds, A lot of counting, Decide to mow the verge. We frontagers are obliged to mow the public pavementL the only reason i bought an electric mower, to relieve the public purse. For first cut of the season never used to mow until grass and wild flowers half way up garden wall height but Mrs Bnc now insists sooner. I'd mowed about half the grass, massive tufts, when heavy rain descends. Run to garage to switch off the electricity for charger, unplug cable from car. Switch off separate power for mower. Run back outside to bring in soaking wet electric mower. Clothes soaked. Dry mower and electric cable inside garage. Wait to for rain to subside. Check battery storage time, oh good only 3 and half hour to go. Rain eases but drizzle in the air. Rain finally stops. Connect cable to car and plug, switch on charger. Hear noise, sounds like an electric mower. Look and find neighbour is mowing the stretch of verge I hadn't finished. Usually i mow the entire verge even though some is the neighbour's responsibility. Chat with neighbour. Return to car. 3 hours to go. Sweep the garage. Weed part of the driveway.

At 17:50 discover only 25 minutes to go. Mrs Bnc says i can take puppy into garden. (off lead too risky, she would probably bite one or both of us when she comes in again: best to accompany on lead whist she ambles and darts around garden, digging up. I ask Mrs Bnc to tell me when it is 18:15. double check. misread 25 minutes, it is 15 minutes. Mrs Bnc offers to unplug charger for me, no i say i have done this much on my own, want to finish it. Mrs Bnc doesn't hear me ask for time check at 18:05. Allow puppy a few minutes before returning her indoors much to puppy's annoyance,

Charging has finished, 100%. Switch off, disconnect cabling. leave cables in garage, hassle to remove puppy crate from boot so as to lift up boot floor to put cables in cable store in boot. Drive car to reposition in driveway in case ramp is needed to load puppy into car. Decide to drive around the corner, so to speak, a few minutes walk, for an errand.

Next day, drive to destination circa 8 miles on electric. Battery lasts the journey both ways. This morning take puppy for a walk on the hills, electric power one way. Empty for the return.

Dread to think how much electricity units consumed: next time will read the meter before charging.

Need to get an external waterproof socket fitted on the outside of garage so that I don't have to leave the garage door open and the charger isn't suspended. Wonder what could/would happen if when left to charge overnight (economy 7) it rained.

[AF62]

That’s why lots of PHEVs are never charged or only charged once!

But seriously, charging is far easier if you have a tethered charger (a charger with a cable permanently fixed), so it is drive up, flip the switch to the charge port on the car, grab the cable from the wall and plug in, then go inside and do something more interesting until the following day when you can unplug and zoom off. No messing around with getting the cable from the boot or setting a charge schedule as a smart charger will only start to actually deliver electricity to the battery when you fall into the cheap rate period.

However getting such a charger is going to cost £500 or so after the grant in England (less in Scotland), so most people with a PHEV won’t bother and it is only those with BEVs who will.

[DrFfybes]

Octavia lets me to select a percentage of the charge to keep in reserve. Presumably for when I have almost run out of petrol and can drive to my destination on the charge available?

Doesn't the battery also fill in for the engine if more power is needed? If so best to keep a small amount for if you find yourself struggling past Mr Stobart.

First, how best to park the car to allow for length of cable. Just about able to connect cable to car and plug to wall socket with charger suspended, not ideal. Second, find out how to unlock flap over car end. Unlock car, flap click manual. Lock car, flap does not close of its own accord. Remember o check that flap is closed after finishing charging.

Third, Work out how to attach and detach cable end to car. After trying to detach cable end from car, discover that I have to unlock car to detach cable.

Fourth, both ends connected, switch on wall plug. What do the lights mean? Ah ha, initial check charger is working. Fading green light charging in progress.

You missed out "Second, rtfm"

heavy rain descends. Run to garage to switch off the electricity for charger, unplug cable from car.

I would have thought the connection at the car end was waterproof?

At 17:50 discover only 25 minutes to go. Mrs Bnc says i can take puppy into garden. (off lead too risky, she would probably bite one or both of us when she comes in again

Just to clarify the above, your puppy is a female, isn't it?

Next day, drive to destination circa 8 miles on electric. Battery lasts the journey both ways. This morning take puppy for a walk on the hills, electric power one way. Empty for the return.

Surely returning with an empty puppy is the purpose of the walk

Dread to think how much electricity units consumed: next time will read the meter before charging.

Need to get an external waterproof socket fitted on the outside of garage so that I don't have to leave the garage door open and the charger isn't suspended. Wonder what could/would happen if when left to charge overnight (economy 7) it rained.

From what I read (apart from the potentially vampiric tendencies of MrsBnC) your issue is getting the charge from the garage to the car avoiding dangling the charger from the wall socket?

Whist there will be numerous warnings about not using an extension lead, could you get a short 13A lead that would run from the wall socket to the garage door and plug the charger in there. This is how we run the washing machine in the garage, which warns against using an extension lead as it draws just over 2kW at peak, but the unwound extension I use is rated above that and doesn't get warm. Alternatively get another socket in the garage nearer the door rather than outside?

Please keep up the updates - interesting to read real world user reports.

Paul

[Mike4]

Dread to think how much electricity units consumed: next time will read the meter before charging.

3kW for 6 hours = 18KwHrs

18kWhrs at (probably) approx 20p each = £3.60

[Howard]

Dread to think how much electricity units consumed: next time will read the meter before charging.

3kW for 6 hours = 18KwHrs

18kWhrs at (probably) approx 20p each = £3.60

When B and C worries about this it makes me feel affluent! In six hours, on volatile days, my SIPP value can plummet by thousands (or hopefully increase by the same.)

regards

Howard

[brightncheerful]

From what I read (apart from the potentially vampiric tendencies of MrsBnC) your issue is getting the charge from the garage to the car avoiding dangling the charger from the wall socket?

Whist there will be numerous warnings about not using an extension lead, could you get a short 13A lead that would run from the wall socket to the garage door and plug the charger in there. This is how we run the washing machine in the garage, which warns against using an extension lead as it draws just over 2kW at peak, but the unwound extension I use is rated above that and doesn't get warm. Alternatively get another socket in the garage nearer the door rather than outside?

In the garage I have 3 double power points - 6 sockets - in different positions of which only 1 double point (2 sockets) is in permanent use. When i had the points installed I hadn't thought that one day I would have an electric car. Although of the power points one is closer to the garage door (closer than the one i used on Saturday last), the position of the car's flap )on the left hand side of the car) is out of reach regardless of whether I park the car facing forwards or reverse in. The one i used is best because i can drive up to almost touching the garage door and the cable just about reaches the flap.

I intend to get a new (extension) point on the external right brick pier of the garage. that should allow ample slack for the charger to rest on the ground. The point would be controlled from inside the garage.

---

Interest comment whether the cable connector to the car is waterproof. It would make sense if it were because presumably when using a public hub one cannot be expected to run to the car to undo the cable at the slightest hint of rain. According to the instructions for charging it should be kept away from water: perhaps i misread it.

[brightncheerful]

Dread to think how much electricity units consumed: next time will read the meter before charging.

3kW for 6 hours = 18KwHrs

18kWhrs at (probably) approx 20p each = £3.60

When B and C worries about this it makes me feel affluent! In six hours, on volatile days, my SIPP value can plummet by thousands (or hopefully increase by the same.)

regards Howard

Ime, people with SIPPs are wealthy. And can afford plummets in the hope of rebounds to at least counteract.

[brightncheerful]

useful info here about how to drive a hybrid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1Obl4tTXao

[AF62]

Whist there will be numerous warnings about not using an extension lead, could you get a short 13A lead that would run from the wall socket to the garage door and plug the charger in there. This is how we run the washing machine in the garage, which warns against using an extension lead as it draws just over 2kW at peak, but the unwound extension I use is rated above that and doesn't get warm. Alternatively get another socket in the garage nearer the door rather than outside?

Braver than me using an extension lead like that. Although a washing machine might draw 2kW it isn’t doing it for an extended period such as a solid 3kW for six hours.

Dread to think how much electricity units consumed: next time will read the meter before charging.

3kW for 6 hours = 18KwHrs at (probably) approx 20p each = £3.60

That’s where tariffs such as Octopus Go can be suitable. it offers four hours at 5p per kWh (or you can have five hours at 5.5p or three hours at 4.5p), so reducing the cost by 75%.

However even at 20p, ‘pure electric’ use will give about 4 miles per kWh, so 5p per mile, which equates to (say) a 45 mpg car paying for petrol at 50p a litre (I wish).

[AF62]

Interest comment whether the cable connector to the car is waterproof. It would make sense if it were because presumably when using a public hub one cannot be expected to run to the car to undo the cable at the slightest hint of rain. According to the instructions for charging it should be kept away from water: perhaps i misread it.

They are waterproof, and nothing is live until the charger and the car have had a bit of a conversation about how each other is and that all is well, before the charger starts to pump through the electricity, so you can even plug in at the car end in pouring rain.

[9873210]

Octavia lets me to select a percentage of the charge to keep in reserve. Presumably for when I have almost run out of petrol and can drive to my destination on the charge available?

Doesn't the battery also fill in for the engine if more power is needed? If so best to keep a small amount for if you find yourself struggling past Mr Stobart.

The engineers who designed the car know this. The software will manage this* by striving to always maintain enough useful charge for a several seconds of maximum acceleration. This is not the sort of thing the driver is expected to deal with.

In most cases any attempt by the driver to manage this will be counter productive, since the engineers and hence the software know a lot more than the driver, and can act faster and more consistently.

* Assuming even marginal competence.

[NilDenari]

"remove puppy crate from boot so as to lift up boot floor to put cables in cable store in boot."

So, if you wish/need to stop and recharge en route to your holiday caravan/campsite/chateau/etc you will have to remove suitcases/tent/diving gear/bikes/etc so as to lift up boot floor to retrieve cables from cable store in boot ?

Sounds like nobody asked any car users what they use a car for.

Can only suggest you leave cables on rear floor for easy access ( be careful that puppy doesn't get tangled up ) - or at home,
and put up with 10 or 15 minutes liquid refuelling stops.

[redsturgeon]

I have had a PHEV for five years, it has done over 70000 miles. I have a charger on the drive, when I park the car on the drive I plug it in, when I leave I unplug it. I fill the car with petrol when it needs it. I run it like a normal car otherwise. It is not difficult. During the first lockdown I did not fill the car with petrol for three months but I used it every day.

Mrs RS never plugs it in...I don't think she knows or cares that it is a PHEV.

John