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New water pump with cambelt change

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swill453
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New water pump with cambelt change

#415126

Postby swill453 » May 25th, 2021, 6:59 pm

My VW Polo is 5 years old but with relatively low mileage (18,000 miles). It needs its cambelt changed which VW do for a fixed £494. To maintain my VW warranty I need to use VW parts, so to save hassle I'm inclined to do this as the easy option.

For "peace of mind" they recommend the water pump is also replaced at an extra £55. With such a low mileage I'm inclined not to include this, anyone agree?

Scott.

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Re: New water pump with cambelt change

#415129

Postby DrFfybes » May 25th, 2021, 7:09 pm

Go to a VW indy, save £200, still using genuine parts.

Paul

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Re: New water pump with cambelt change

#415173

Postby staffordian » May 25th, 2021, 10:25 pm

swill453 wrote:My VW Polo is 5 years old but with relatively low mileage (18,000 miles). It needs its cambelt changed which VW do for a fixed £494. To maintain my VW warranty I need to use VW parts, so to save hassle I'm inclined to do this as the easy option.

For "peace of mind" they recommend the water pump is also replaced at an extra £55. With such a low mileage I'm inclined not to include this, anyone agree?

Scott.

They might not have explained the reasoning behind the "peace of mind" recommendation.

If the water pump develops a problem (and they can) then the cambelt has to be removed, and as you already know, that's not a cheap job...

Itsallaguess
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Re: New water pump with cambelt change

#415195

Postby Itsallaguess » May 26th, 2021, 6:49 am

staffordian wrote:
swill453 wrote:
My VW Polo is 5 years old but with relatively low mileage (18,000 miles). It needs its cambelt changed which VW do for a fixed £494. To maintain my VW warranty I need to use VW parts, so to save hassle I'm inclined to do this as the easy option.

For "peace of mind" they recommend the water pump is also replaced at an extra £55. With such a low mileage I'm inclined not to include this, anyone agree?


They might not have explained the reasoning behind the "peace of mind" recommendation.

If the water pump develops a problem (and they can) then the cambelt has to be removed, and as you already know, that's not a cheap job...


It's sometimes worse than that with cam-belt driven water pumps though, because often it's the waterpump pulleys themselves that go, and in those cases the end result in terms of engine-damage is the same as the cambelt itself breaking....

Me, I'd get them to do the waterpump and replace the coolant at the same time, as well as checking to make sure the cambelt tensioners and other associated pulleys are also being replaced as part of the whole cambelt-replacement job...

It's probably the one engine-related interval-job that doesn't warrant scrimping on....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

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Re: New water pump with cambelt change

#415208

Postby MonsterMork » May 26th, 2021, 7:57 am

swill453 wrote:With such a low mileage I'm inclined not to include this, anyone agree?

Scott.


Nope, I would have the lot done in one go. I think we have done about a dozen so far this year over various makes and engines. Water pumps are a comparatively common failure point and once the belts etc are out of the way it is far easier to swap out the pump, rather than waiting for it to fail and then having to do the belts again just to get to it.

Be grateful it is not a Land Rover TD5 engine, where the water pump is keyed off the back of the power steering pump. If you need to replace one of them you replace the pair, as the wear mis-match 'twixt old and new quickly causes the death of the old part and mangles the new one, which in turn means the customer has ended up paying for the same job twice.

MM

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Re: New water pump with cambelt change

#415223

Postby swill453 » May 26th, 2021, 9:10 am

So the nearest VW specialist, with some decent reviews, can do the job for £90 less if I include the water pump. The logistics of getting the car there are easier too, so seems a no brainer.

Scott.

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Re: New water pump with cambelt change

#415240

Postby Mike4 » May 26th, 2021, 10:13 am

swill453 wrote:My VW Polo is 5 years old but with relatively low mileage (18,000 miles). It needs its cambelt changed which VW do for a fixed £494.


I'm surprised no-one has commented on this. Back in the day the benchmark used to be 60,000 miles to change a cam belt as preventive maintenance. Is it possible that it is the five years of age that triggered the need to change it rather than the 18,000 mileage? And if the water pump pulley is plastic then age again might be the indicator of likely failure rather than miles.

I'm also taken aback at the £494 cost of the cam belt swap. One would have thought VW would design an engine to make an item of such regular maintenance quicker and easier!

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Re: New water pump with cambelt change

#415243

Postby 88V8 » May 26th, 2021, 10:24 am

Mike4 wrote:One would have thought VW would design an engine to make an item of such regular maintenance quicker and easier!

Ha!
One would have thought that they might design it with a chain and a proper water pump :o

When we inherited my parent's Pug 205 it had done 7,000 miles over 14 years, but I had the belt changed. Belt... rubber... age. Still on its original pump, now at 30 years and 32,000.

V8

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Re: New water pump with cambelt change

#415246

Postby redsturgeon » May 26th, 2021, 10:31 am

Warranty? At over five years old?

John

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Re: New water pump with cambelt change

#415259

Postby bungeejumper » May 26th, 2021, 11:09 am

Mike4 wrote:I'm also taken aback at the £494 cost of the cam belt swap. One would have thought VW would design an engine to make an item of such regular maintenance quicker and easier!

That does seem a lot, although £82 of that is VAT. I wonder whether the price includes an auxiliary belt set, including tensioners? But they can be an absolute pig to reach, as you've noticed. I blame all the extra gubbins that has to be crammed under the bonnet these days. A Morris Minor had about a yard of clear space on either side of the lump. But then, it didn't have a turbo, an air conditioner, a set of brake servers, four sets of fuel pipes, a load of engine bay covers, a fancy exhaust and enough computery stuff to take it to the moon and beyond.

You're not wrong that belt change intervals have come down. My 2002 diesel Focus started out with an 80K recommendation, but the Haynes manuals quickly reduced their recommendations to 40K and eventually Ford started saying 37K. A busted cam belt causes so much damage that it just wasn't worth the risk of holding out for longer. (Don't ask me how I know. My busted belt cost me £1200, and it could have been worse than that.)

My Toyota doesn't have to worry about belt change intervals. It has a chain. :D

BJ

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Re: New water pump with cambelt change

#415294

Postby swill453 » May 26th, 2021, 1:39 pm

Mike4 wrote:
swill453 wrote:My VW Polo is 5 years old but with relatively low mileage (18,000 miles). It needs its cambelt changed which VW do for a fixed £494.

I'm surprised no-one has commented on this. Back in the day the benchmark used to be 60,000 miles to change a cam belt as preventive maintenance. Is it possible that it is the five years of age that triggered the need to change it rather than the 18,000 mileage? And if the water pump pulley is plastic then age again might be the indicator of likely failure rather than miles.

I'm also taken aback at the £494 cost of the cam belt swap. One would have thought VW would design an engine to make an item of such regular maintenance quicker and easier!

Yes it's to be replaced at 5 years to maintain any warranty.

I agree £494 sounds steep, it's a fixed price item and not itemized further down to parts/labour.

Scott.

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Re: New water pump with cambelt change

#415295

Postby swill453 » May 26th, 2021, 1:41 pm

redsturgeon wrote:Warranty? At over five years old?

Yes, I bought it 2nd hand at a VW dealer last year, at the time they had a deal on with a free bundle of 2 years warranty, 2 years breakdown cover and 2 years MOT insurance.

Scott.

swill453
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Re: New water pump with cambelt change

#415296

Postby swill453 » May 26th, 2021, 1:43 pm

bungeejumper wrote:That does seem a lot, although £82 of that is VAT. I wonder whether the price includes an auxiliary belt set, including tensioners?

The basic price includes everything except the water pump, which as I said is an optional £55 extra.

Scott.

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Re: New water pump with cambelt change

#415329

Postby AF62 » May 26th, 2021, 3:57 pm

Mike4 wrote:
swill453 wrote:My VW Polo is 5 years old but with relatively low mileage (18,000 miles). It needs its cambelt changed which VW do for a fixed £494.


I'm surprised no-one has commented on this. Back in the day the benchmark used to be 60,000 miles to change a cam belt as preventive maintenance. Is it possible that it is the five years of age that triggered the need to change it rather than the 18,000 mileage? And if the water pump pulley is plastic then age again might be the indicator of likely failure rather than miles.


My understanding is the five year recommendation for change is a VW UK recommendation and across the rest of the world and the rest of the VAG brands it is considered a ‘long life’ item that should be inspected during services.

Presumably VW UK has a reason for being different.

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Re: New water pump with cambelt change

#415354

Postby 9873210 » May 26th, 2021, 5:24 pm

bungeejumper wrote:
A busted cam belt causes so much damage that it just wasn't worth the risk of holding out for longer. (Don't ask me how I know. My busted belt cost me £1200, and it could have been worse than that.)

BJ

It depends on the engine.

In an interference engine, the dreaded sequence is the water pump breaks, this causes the cam belt to break, this causes the valves to stop moving up and down in sync with the pistons so the pistons and valves try to occupy the same space at the same time, which wrecks the engine. Delaying water pump replacement may require a new engine.

Not all engines are interference engines. On a non-interference engine a broken cam belt may simply strand you at the side of the road until the belt and such are replace, so the cost of waiting is inconvenience and a tow.

You might want to know whether the Polo has an interference or non-interference engine

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Re: New water pump with cambelt change

#415360

Postby swill453 » May 26th, 2021, 5:28 pm

9873210 wrote:You might want to know whether the Polo has an interference or non-interference engine

To be honest I don't really care. I need to replace it anyway to maintain the warranty, and it'll likely be the only time I replace it in the time I own the car so now's as good a time as any.

Scott.

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Re: New water pump with cambelt change

#415365

Postby swill453 » May 26th, 2021, 5:44 pm

88V8 wrote:One would have thought that they might design it with a chain and a proper water pump :o

The argument is that a belt rather than a chain is lighter, quieter, and more fuel efficient.

Scott.

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Re: New water pump with cambelt change

#415375

Postby quelquod » May 26th, 2021, 6:16 pm

swill453 wrote:
88V8 wrote:One would have thought that they might design it with a chain and a proper water pump :o

The argument is that a belt rather than a chain is lighter, quieter, and more fuel efficient.


And if you Google for BMW N47 engine timing chain failures you’ll see that a chain doesn’t always protect you from catastrophic problems.

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Re: New water pump with cambelt change

#415419

Postby MonsterMork » May 26th, 2021, 10:32 pm

Mike4 wrote: One would have thought VW would design an engine to make an item of such regular maintenance quicker and easier!


:lol: 'Scuse me while I change my undies, I seem to have wet meself laffing ...

This is the same VAG who designed the oil filter housing location so that when you remove the filter you puke old oil straight into the alternator and either reduce its life span and efficiency or worst-case-scenario bugger the alternator completely.

This is the same VAG who use more bolts to hold the engine undertray onto a vehicle than to hold the seats in place.

This is the same VAG who design the rear disc brakes (on a Golf, for example) so that the discs and brake pads can't be seen and assessed from underneath the vehicle by an MoT Tester because they are tucked up out of the way and covered with a very close fitting crud shield.

To be fair to VAG they are not the only manufacturer with form for producing complete and utter expletive from a service and MoT point of view, all the others are equally as guilty in some way.

I think I need a lie down :cry:

SpannerSlingerMork

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Re: New water pump with cambelt change

#415421

Postby MonsterMork » May 26th, 2021, 10:36 pm

bungeejumper wrote:
My Toyota doesn't have to worry about belt change intervals. It has a chain. :D

BJ


Point of order M'Lud - I believe the Toyota 1.8 VVTI lump, as found in Avensis for example, is listed by Toyota as being ready for a new chain at around 100k miles. Which means I now need to check my own Avensis. Ahem :oops:

MM


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