Rebuke bad drivers?

[MrFoolish]

Should you rebuke examples of dangerous driving, perhaps by flashing or beeping?

I must admit I sometimes do. I think it's like seeing someone littering or letting their dog crap on the pavement - if you say nothing they will just keeping doing it.

But I was watching a driving instructor on youtube (Ashley Neal) who reckons you should just ignore it. Although he didn't really say why.

What's the view here?

[swill453]

In a legal or Highway Code sense, that's not a valid use of the horn. Do you think your wish to rebuke should override that?

Scott.

[MrFoolish]

In a legal or Highway Code sense, that's not a valid use of the horn. Do you think your wish to rebuke should override that?

Scott.

It's a fair question. Though I believe the Highway Code and the law aren't necessarily the same.

If you thought your horn mis-use might help discourage a future accident, would you not use it? The lesser of two evils perhaps?

[Midsmartin]

What might a rebuke achieve? I can only really think of one outcome apart from relieving your frustration which is a bad tempered road rage response.

All of us have made a stupid mistake while driving at some time, because humans are error prone. If you think you haven't, you are wrong. Would your error have been undone by a rebuke? Unlikely.

It is a pity that cars are not fitted with an indicator light for "oops, sorry, I didn't mean to do that". There is a multitude of ways to be rude to another driver, but no accepted way to say sorry. So incidents can only escalate.

[swill453]

It's a fair question. Though I believe the Highway Code and the law aren't necessarily the same.

That's why I mentioned both. If you're on the move while dishing out your rebuke that's merely against guidance, which could lead in extremis to some kind of careless driving charge.

If you're stationary then it's a specific offence against the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations.

Would it have any effect anyway?

Scott.

[MrFoolish]

What might a rebuke achieve? I can only really think of one outcome apart from relieving your frustration which is a bad tempered road rage response.

All of us have made a stupid mistake while driving at some time, because humans are error prone. If you think you haven't, you are wrong. Would your error have been undone by a rebuke? Unlikely.

It is a pity that cars are not fitted with an indicator light for "oops, sorry, I didn't mean to do that". There is a multitude of ways to be rude to another driver, but no accepted way to say sorry. So incidents can only escalate.

I'm not really talking about mistakes though. Rather, dangerous and agressive actions, like tailgating, reckless overtaking or cutting people up at speed.

If they get a series of rebukes over time, would it eventually discourage them? This is what I'm wondering.

[9873210]

All of us have made a stupid mistake while driving at some time, because humans are error prone. If you think you haven't, you are wrong. Would your error have been undone by a rebuke? Unlikely.

When I realize I have made an error I try not to do it again. If I don't recognize an error there is no capability to learn. So It might be helpful to have it pointed out. OTOH a horn really can't do this. It can't tell me what, or even who, is deemed to be in error.

Add to that that some peoples think that things like obeying the speed limit are serious errors that must be avoided. It would probably end with the most obnoxious setting the de facto rules.

Better not to toot.

[Mike4]

I'm not really talking about mistakes though. Rather, dangerous and agressive actions, like tailgating, reckless overtaking or cutting people up at speed.

If they get a series of rebukes over time, would it eventually discourage them? This is what I'm wondering.

I'd say most definitely not. Motorists in the habit of tailgating or whatever are highly unlikely to think to themselves "Oh that chap has a point, that was a bit of a dangerous thing I did there, I'll improve my driving in future, thanks mate!". Far more likely they'll just aggressively hoot back at you in denial.

[MrFoolish]

I'm not really talking about mistakes though. Rather, dangerous and agressive actions, like tailgating, reckless overtaking or cutting people up at speed.

If they get a series of rebukes over time, would it eventually discourage them? This is what I'm wondering.

I'd say most definitely not. Motorists in the habit of tailgating or whatever are highly unlikely to think to themselves "Oh that chap has a point, that was a bit of a dangerous thing I did there, I'll improve my driving in future, thanks mate!". Far more likely they'll just aggressively hoot back at you in denial.

You are probably right. I guess I don't understand their mindset.

Regularly, when in start-stop traffic, I'll encounter the driver who will constantly drive up at speed to the car in front, and will slam their brakes on at the last second. Quite what this is supposed to achieve, apart from waste fuel, I'll never know. Often as not it is a middle-aged driver in an Audi, so I guess they must be well set in their ways. (I don't give this as an example of a dangerous situation - just of a mindset I can't comprehend.)

Having said all that, I once made the mistake of pulling out from a petrol station onto a dual carriageway via a short sliproad, without waiting for a big enough gap. It was mostly misjudgement on my part, though I guess I should have been more patient. I got beeped and flashed by the approaching car. I suspect the car was speeding, but all the same I should have judged it better. It has stuck in my mind and I'm now more careful in those situtations - so perhaps the rebuke was justified?

[bungeejumper]

What might a rebuke achieve? I can only really think of one outcome apart from relieving your frustration which is a bad tempered road rage response.

Indeed. Some people's characters change completely when they get behind the wheel. Mr Heavily-Oppressed Everyday Average Nice Guy can turn into a raging vengeful psycho once he's got two tonnes of prime steel at his disposal - and you've just become the focus of his vengeance. I have once encountered the real-life version of Steven Spielberg's truck driver ("Duel", of course), and I don't ever want that experience again. Tailgating, yelling, flashing, blasting the horn, trying to undertake, rearing up behind me and dropping back repeatedly. Took me five miles to find a safe place where I could get out of her way [sic], and off she roared to do the exact same thing to the car in front of me. These days my dashcam would have nailed her, if I'd been that way inclined.

But the better reason for ignoring bad behaviour is that challenging it will probably spoil a couple of hours of your life, and maybe much more. Your fight or flight hormones are pumping, your self-justification defences are in full flow, and your blood pressure's twenty points up. All of which makes it rather more likely that your focus won't be 100% there when some other, perfectly ordinary everyday challenge occurs - a jaywalking pedestrian, a red light jumper, a stray dog in the road, or an undertaking cyclist who's left his brains at home.

Dashcams might offer a calming solution, of course. Much though I hate those dashcam vigilantes who deliberately provoke people and then shop their videoed over-reactions to the police, I do know that once an offending situation is in my dashcam, I don't need to spend another moment getting cross about it. If, at the end of the day, I still feel strongly about it, I might fish out the video and report the offender. Hasn't happened yet. Probably never will.

BJ

[jfgw]

If you use the horn for such purposes, what are you going to use if there is a genuine danger?

If an HGV is being reversed toward you and you toot your horn, do you want the driver to realise that there is a danger, or is it ok for the driver to be so familiar with the sound of the horn that he or she does not take proper notice?

Unfortunately, those who use the horn inappropriately have to cry wolf only a small number of times for the warning to be disregarded. If you hear a horn, what is your first thought? Unless you immediately consider that there may be a danger and act accordingly, the damage has already been done.

Maybe if horns were replaced with something less aggressive, such as an old-fashioned train whistle, there would be less misuse and they would still be largey effective for their original purpose.


Julian F. G. W.

[scrumpyjack]

I would not do anything. Most sensible people realise when they have made an error of judgement when driving. The idiots may respond with road rage or further bad behaviour, so I really don't think it is worth showing your disapproval.

[Urbandreamer]

I got beeped and flashed by the approaching car. I suspect the car was speeding, but all the same I should have judged it better. It has stuck in my mind and I'm now more careful in those situtations - so perhaps the rebuke was justified?

I suspect that you are missing the point of most responses here. YOU felt that you did something wrong. Most of the people we are talking about don't.

That includes the person parked on a double yellow line this morning ensuring that cars waiting to exit a side road had to do so on the wrong side of the road. Don't get me started about the person parked on the pedestrian crossing markings!

It also includes the stream of traffic that jumped the lights turning right and continued to stream until an agresive driver chose to drive towards them. Even then there was a squalling of brakes as otherwise there would have been a collision. The woman who had chosen to tailgate the traffic turning right just laughed.

I swear that there must be something about Sundays. Some time ago I had to slam on the the brakes as someone exited a side road fast without looking. He saw me, I saw him. We both stopped, him in the middle of the main road. The fact that I was not travelling the opposite direction prevented me t-boneing him. It's a 40 mph limit there! I do hope that event had more effect than any rebuke.

SERIOUSLY, most of these people KNOW that they should behave differently. However double yellow lines and pedestrian crossing markings only count if there is a cop to catch you. Pulling out from a side road is only dangerous if there are other cars on the street (Sunday after covid restrictions). Why worry about the rules of junctions if you can bully your way through? That is the attitude.

You won't help them or those they meet with a rebuke.

[AF62]

Should you rebuke examples of dangerous driving, perhaps by flashing or beeping?

I am puzzled when you might do this when the perpetrator might actually see or hear your rebuke.

And if you do undertake to do this, please don't be that flat cap wearing person driving a beige Austin Allegro at 40 mph on a NSL road and then goes 'flash happy' when someone overtakes you in a perfectly safe manoeuvre.

And please make sure you are damn right in your accusation, unlike the person in the bloated SUV driving down the middle of the road who indicated in no uncertain terms that I was driving around the car park the wrong way last week, except the car park is two way...

And whatever you do, don't end up the same way as Stephen Cameron.

[MrFoolish]

Should you rebuke examples of dangerous driving, perhaps by flashing or beeping?

I am puzzled when you might do this when the perpetrator might actually see or hear your rebuke.

I'm puzzled as to why you are puzzled. Can you really not imagine any such scenarios?

[Mike4]

I suspect that you are missing the point of most responses here. YOU felt that you did something wrong. Most of the people we are talking about don't.

That includes the person parked on a double yellow line this morning ensuring that cars waiting to exit a side road had to do so on the wrong side of the road. Don't get me started about the person parked on the pedestrian crossing markings!

Worst of all are the people who do this but put their hazard lights on, thereby illustrating they know they are breaking the rules and don't give a damn.

On the canal system there are boaters who seem to take delight in mooring in awkward places where they are causing a partial obstruction and/or difficulties for other boaters. There is a facebook group for posting photos of inconsiderately moored boats, called "Moored like a twat". I think an equivalent group for cars (in particular Range Rovers and Audi Q7s) and called "Parked like a twat", might fill up with photos pretty quickly...

[AF62]

Should you rebuke examples of dangerous driving, perhaps by flashing or beeping?

I am puzzled when you might do this when the perpetrator might actually see or hear your rebuke.

I'm puzzled as to why you are puzzled. Can you really not imagine any such scenarios?

No, not really. Could you provide some examples.

[MrFoolish]

I am puzzled when you might do this when the perpetrator might actually see or hear your rebuke.

I'm puzzled as to why you are puzzled. Can you really not imagine any such scenarios?

No, not really. Could you provide some examples.

I already gave an example of where I got flashed and beeped for pulling out onto a dual carriageway when I was too close to an approaching vehicle.

[AF62]

I'm puzzled as to why you are puzzled. Can you really not imagine any such scenarios?

No, not really. Could you provide some examples.

I already gave an example of where I got flashed and beeped for pulling out onto a dual carriageway when I was too close to an approaching vehicle.

So just that one scenario then?

But even then I would suggest that the dangerous driver was not you for merging onto the dual carriageway from the slip road (unless you were merging at a rediculously slow speed) but the driver on the dual carriageway who flashed and beeped you because they were either not observant enough to see you and modify their speed or change lanes before you merged or did see you and took the 'screw you' approach and flashed and beeped as punishment for getting in their way.

As you mentioned the driver who flashed and beeped you was speeding, perhaps you should have flashed and beeped them back as they were driving dangerously. In fact should we be flashing and beeping at everyone who is speeding?

[MrFoolish]

So just that one scenario then?

Well each scenario would take some explanation, so I can't be spending all night writing them out. They tend to be varations on a theme where someone aggressively pulls out in front of you, usually without the right of way.

But even then I would suggest that the dangerous driver was not you for merging onto the dual carriageway from the slip road (unless you were merging at a rediculously slow speed) but the driver on the dual carriageway who flashed and beeped you because they were either not observant enough to see you and modify their speed or change lanes before you merged or did see you and took the 'screw you' approach and flashed and beeped as punishment for getting in their way.

As you mentioned the driver who flashed and beeped you was speeding, perhaps you should have flashed and beeped them back. In fact should we be flashing and beeping at everyone who is speeding?

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure to what extent I was in error. It was dark and I was tired. But getting rebuked did get my attention and I think I'm now more careful at those sorts of junctions.