Lights and MOTs

[DrFfybes]

Driving back on Sunday night, between 9 and 10:30, we saw 4 or 5 drivers with no lights on as it was going quite dark.

The last one we followed quite slowly for several miles on the unlit A49 in almost total darkness, trying to attract their attention by flashing main beam, before finally getting past. It was an older chap and once we were in front I turned out lights off and on, and after a couple of goes he put his hazard lights on but continued along the road.

However I also noticed earlier that my front fog lights were on. The warning light on the clocks is not one I'm used to seeing, so it took me a little while to realise what it was, and deduce that they had been left on after the MOT a few days earlier.

This led me to a theory... all the cars we has seen were relatively late model ones, certainly in the last 5 years, and I wonder if the owners picked the car up with the lights on "Auto" and have never used the switch since. It seems the last chap didn't even know where the switch was, as he was driving on his DRLs.

A question for Mork, when you do a test is there a bit for leaving the lights in their last position, or do you just routinely turn them off?

Paul

[redsturgeon]

Driving back on Sunday night, between 9 and 10:30, we saw 4 or 5 drivers with no lights on as it was going quite dark.

The last one we followed quite slowly for several miles on the unlit A49 in almost total darkness, trying to attract their attention by flashing main beam, before finally getting past. It was an older chap and once we were in front I turned out lights off and on, and after a couple of goes he put his hazard lights on but continued along the road.

However I also noticed earlier that my front fog lights were on. The warning light on the clocks is not one I'm used to seeing, so it took me a little while to realise what it was, and deduce that they had been left on after the MOT a few days earlier.

This led me to a theory... all the cars we has seen were relatively late model ones, certainly in the last 5 years, and I wonder if the owners picked the car up with the lights on "Auto" and have never used the switch since. It seems the last chap didn't even know where the switch was, as he was driving on his DRLs.

A question for Mork, when you do a test is there a bit for leaving the lights in their last position, or do you just routinely turn them off?

Paul

I find the situation with automatic lights and daylight running lights is ripe for confusion.

With my BMW with both auto and DRLs it is relatively simple, as you note, I leave them on auto and forget about them...until the car goes for a service or MOT then they get switched.

My son's seven year old Fiesta has DRLs but no auto so I have to remember to switch on the lights if it is dark, it is easy to see the front DRLs on and assume you have lights on.

My 16 year old Accord has no DRLs and no auto lights but that seems to be easy to remember since in the dark you can't see where you are going until you switch on the lights...and conveniently the car beeps at me if I try to leave it with the lights still on.

It seems to me that the middle path of DRLs with no auto lights is the difficult one.

John

[DrFfybes]

I find the situation with automatic lights and daylight running lights is ripe for confusion.

With my BMW with both auto and DRLs it is relatively simple, as you note, I leave them on auto and forget about them...until the car goes for a service or MOT then they get switched.

My son's seven year old Fiesta has DRLs but no auto so I have to remember to switch on the lights if it is dark, it is easy to see the front DRLs on and assume you have lights on.

My 16 year old Accord has no DRLs and no auto lights but that seems to be easy to remember since in the dark you can't see where you are going until you switch on the lights...and conveniently the car beeps at me if I try to leave it with the lights still on.

It seems to me that the middle path of DRLs with no auto lights is the difficult one.

John

One thing I have noticed is the position of "auto" on the switch varies between cars.
On the BMW knob it is Auto - off - side - main.
Toyota have Off - Auto - Side - Main. , so I quite often turn the Avensis onto 'sidelights' as that is 2 clicks around the stalk. At least that is obvious, as the DRLs then go off.

The other issue is permanently backlit dashboards - time was you looked at the speedo and if you couldn't see it you put your lights on

Paul

[AF62]

It seems to me that the middle path of DRLs with no auto lights is the difficult one.

Although the VW Golf I had previously had auto lights, I changed the coding for the car (OBD-II reader and a phone app) so the rear lights were on whenever the front DRLs were on - aka the 'Scandinavian' setting.

Then there is the issue of the implementation of the front DRLs with some the DRLs being on whenever the engine is on and some only being on when the engine is on and the handbrake is not engaged (which seems to be the case with cars from the far-east).

And then there is the issue of auto-dipping headlights with drivers going from a car with that facility to a car that doesn't and not realising it doesn't (or not caring).

[stevensfo]

I must admit that I never use the Auto setting, simply because I don't feel in control and don't know how sensitive the detector is. I generally use the lights as soon as the daylight is anything other than perfect, but prefer to keep them on all the time. This is because my current car is black and the previous was grey, and from a number of hair-raising near-misses, I know how easily they can blend in and be almost invisible against a grey road.

Steve

[MonsterMork]

A question for Mork, when you do a test is there a bit for leaving the lights in their last position, or do you just routinely turn them off?

Paul

To do a test you should begin with all the lights on including hazards and rear fogs, start the car, then switch them all off as far as possible (if DRL's are fitted then obviously them blimmin' things will stay on). At the end of the test I personally always leave the lights switched off - if the driver doesn't know how to switch them on then they shouldn't be driving anyway!* However this is personal choice, there is no set order from DVSA as to what to do so some testers may leave them off, some on, and some just on sidelights.

MM



*from my p.o.v. modern drivers are not taught how to drive but how to pass a test - please start another thread to discuss if you wish!

[AF62]

I must admit that I never use the Auto setting, simply because I don't feel in control and don't know how sensitive the detector is. I generally use the lights as soon as the daylight is anything other than perfect, but prefer to keep them on all the time.

I have noticed that on one of my cars, even though it has DRLs, it turns on the headlights and rear lights when the automatic wipers turn on and remain on for more than a short time.

[bungeejumper]

At the end of the test I personally always leave the lights switched off - if the driver doesn't know how to switch them on then they shouldn't be driving anyway!*

Maybe a tad harsh, MM? My car has dozens of controls that I have no regular use for, so it's a voyage of discovery every time I want to use one. The fogs on my Toyota are a spring-loaded knob that you tweak once for fronts, again for both, and a third time for off, and it beats me how I'm supposed to intuit all that? Come to think of it, I suppose Dr F's four or five cars might have been hire cars or pool cars?

Do agree, though, that DRLs can be a pitfall. I once drove right through town, unaware that my headlights were actually my DRLs. I should have noticed that my dash lights weren't on, of course, but since the street lights were very bright that wasn't causing me any problems.

from my p.o.v. modern drivers are not taught how to drive but how to pass a test - please start another thread to discuss if you wish!

Not just a p.o.v. My driving instructor told me exactly that, back in the 1970s. He said a freshly-passed driver would spend the next six months learning all the roadcraft that there hadn't been time to teach him during his lessons. Presumably some never get round to that bit.

BJ

[Mike4]

Not just a p.o.v. My driving instructor told me exactly that, back in the 1970s. He said a freshly-passed driver would spend the next six months learning all the roadcraft that there hadn't been time to teach him during his lessons. Presumably some never get round to that bit.

BJ

My driving instructor told me exactly the same in 1972 - that his job was to squeeze me through the driving test, after which I could continue with the far more complicated business of learning to drive well.

But never mind the six months your instructor mentioned. 49 years later I still find myself discovering and learning new stuff to do with driving, and how others drive.

[quelquod]

The point that I notice about my Auto setting is that whilst it works fine for light intensify, tunnels and the like, it’s not very sensitive to ‘fog’ (we get a lot of haar) and I often have to manually switch on my dips. Equally irritating then is that the wonderful BMW headlight steering doesn’t work until the switch is back in the correct position. I’m really keen on the auto headlights which can be more or less left on Auto and even the dip steers itself to ‘make a hole’ around tail lights ahead to maximise the illumination. Getting lazier with age!

[brightncheerful]

if the driver doesn't know how to switch them on then they shouldn't be driving anyway!*

It was only at the end of a 10 days holiday in Corsica, having hired a small Renault for the duration, that I found out where to switch on the headlights. A rural villages, I asked around but nobody could help, the car hire place was miles away, no mobiles or internet forums in those days.

Unable to find it the first time we went out in the car in the evening around dusk, I drove back to the hotel as quickly as was safe in pitch black night darkness, After that we never went out if dusk was imminent.

The switch was on a rotating stalk alongside the steering wheel.

[redsturgeon]

if the driver doesn't know how to switch them on then they shouldn't be driving anyway!*

It was only at the end of a 10 days holiday in Corsica, having hired a small Renault for the duration, that I found out where to switch on the headlights. A rural villages, I asked around but nobody could help, the car hire place was miles away, no mobiles or internet forums in those days.

Unable to find it the first time we went out in the car in the evening around dusk, I drove back to the hotel as quickly as was safe in pitch black night darkness, After that we never went out if dusk was imminent.

The switch was on a rotating stalk alongside the steering wheel.

Wow...who would have thought of looking there?

[pje16]

My preference is DRL off and Auto on
@quelquod makes a very good point about fog, can't remember the last time I saw any, but will keep an eye out on my lights when it next descends
Good tip --thanks for that

[AF62]

The trouble with fog is you get the dimwits who have turned the rear fog light on, but then are too lazy to turn it off when they get someone behind them.

[pje16]

If they are that thick, then there are bigger problems than just lights

[XFool]

The trouble with fog is you get the dimwits who have turned the rear fog light on, but then are too lazy to turn it off when they get someone behind them.

Not sure I follow that. The idea of the rear fog light is to warn people you are in front, during fog. It shouldn't bother people that it is on, unless they are driving too close behind you - in fog! In which case, possibly you need to look to your own driving rather than that of the person in front.

[pje16]

Not sure I follow that. The idea of the rear fog light is to warn people you are in front, during fog. It shouldn't bother people that it is on, unless they are driving too close behind you - in fog! In which case, possibly you need to look to your own driving rather than that of the person in front.

How do you do that? - by speeding up - surely not

[XFool]

Not sure I follow that. The idea of the rear fog light is to warn people you are in front, during fog. It shouldn't bother people that it is on, unless they are driving too close behind you - in fog! In which case, possibly you need to look to your own driving rather than that of the person in front.

How do you do that? - by speeding up - surely not

QED?

[DrFfybes]

The trouble with fog is you get the dimwits who have turned the rear fog light on, but then are too lazy to turn it off when they get someone behind them.

Not sure I follow that. The idea of the rear fog light is to warn people you are in front, during fog. It shouldn't bother people that it is on, unless they are driving too close behind you - in fog! In which case, possibly you need to look to your own driving rather than that of the person in front.

Firstly, you should only use rear fogs when visibility is under 100m. That is very very rare.

Secondly, once you can see someone behind you, then they can see you, so you no longer need to warn them you are there, and it would be much better for both parties to make it easier for the following vehicle to see your brake lights or indicators.

Dry road stopping distance is about 200 feet from 50mph, so wet weather (and the road will be wet when it is foggy) roughly doubles the braking part of that. In reality in a modern car probably about 100 yards. So perhaps when rear fogs are on the vehicle is limited to 50mph/80kph. Certainly stop those muppets in the middle lane of the M5 on a slightly drizzly night dazzling you.

Paul

[AF62]

The trouble with fog is you get the dimwits who have turned the rear fog light on, but then are too lazy to turn it off when they get someone behind them.

Not sure I follow that. The idea of the rear fog light is to warn people you are in front, during fog. It shouldn't bother people that it is on, unless they are driving too close behind you - in fog! In which case, possibly you need to look to your own driving rather than that of the person in front.

Um, no.

The rear fog light is to show the presence of cars approaching from behind. Once someone is actually following then that function is no longer required, and even if you are following with far more than an adequate gap then the bright fog light is extremely distracting.

And that is before you get to the dimwits who use them in a light mist, in town, or can't be bothered to turn them on and off as required when fog is patchy.