EV rapid charging

[brightncheerful]

News that a man named after a motorway services staton is planning to install at least 50 'electric hubs' at motorway service stations with each of them including anywhere between six to twelve ultra-rapid chargers

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57768411

is timely in the. context of what I was told last week by someone very knowledgeable of EV (his company makes water coolers for electric buses). He told me that what buyers of EV private vehicles on't realise is that fast chargers damage internal batteries and shorten the life-span of the battery to about 2 years. I don't understand the ins-and-outs so before posting this op I did some research and found this

https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2020/03/electric-vehicle-fast-chargers-shown-to-damage-internal-batteries/

and

https://www.imeche.org/news/news-article/fast-charging-can-damage-electric-car-batteries-in-just-25-cycles

[DrFfybes]

is timely in the. context of what I was told last week by someone very knowledgeable of EV (his company makes water coolers for electric buses). He told me that what buyers of EV private vehicles on't realise is that fast chargers damage internal batteries and shorten the life-span of the battery to about 2 years. I don't understand the ins-and-outs so before posting this op I did some research and found this

https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2020/03/electric-vehicle-fast-chargers-shown-to-damage-internal-batteries/

and

https://www.imeche.org/news/news-article/fast-charging-can-damage-electric-car-batteries-in-just-25-cycles

Interesting - I wonder how "fast" this means. This was over a year ago and yet hasn't made mainstream motoring media as far as I've seen. I know 2 Tesla owners with superchargers who have managed over 2 years with no noticable drop in range. It does mention California and High temp - I wonder if higher ambient temps can cause problems, I suspect both the owners I know tend to charge overnight on cheap rate.

Paul

[AF62]

I was told last week by someone very knowledgeable of EV (his company makes water coolers for electric buses). He told me that what buyers of EV private vehicles on't realise is that fast chargers damage internal batteries and shorten the life-span of the battery to about 2 years.

Others disagree - https://www.myev.com/research/interesti ... ectric-car

The car manufacturers certainly won't want to deal with a lot of warranty replacements with failing batteries if people have simply plugged them in to a standard rapid charger, so will be making every effort in the car's systems to ensure that the battery isn't damaged in the process. Certainly with my Renault Zoe the car talks to the charger and controls the power it will accept, lowering the charge if that is best for the batteries, rather than just accepting what the charger is dishing out.

Anyway, it would be an unusual person who would use such chargers frequently. Most people charge at home or at work because of the lower cost, and only use a rapid charger when they are making a long journey which cannot be achieved within the range of the car. And as those ranges are generally 200 to 250 miles on the sort of cars people will be doing lengthy journeys (and increasing year on year) then an awful lot of EV owners will never use a rapid charger.

[88V8]

Long study here https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/vehiclebatteries/FastChargeEffects.pdf from 2015

The four BEVs driven in Phoenix, Arizona were faced with a hot climate, and two were fast charged twice as often as recommended by their manufacturer. Despite these conditions, the vehicles were operated without failure for 50,000 miles. A greater loss in battery capacity was observed for the fast charged vehicles, though the difference compared to the level two charged vehicles was small in comparison to the overall capacity loss. The vehicle operation was, as intended, verified to be very similar between test groups, and the largest difference in conditions noted was battery temperature during charging. Hotter ambient temperatures appear to have accelerated capacity loss for all of the vehicles in the study, though the exact relationship remains to be seen.

Six years ago, but I think the answer is still yes, it does degrade the battery. A trade-off between life and convenience.

After all, high speeds degrade an ic engine. Life's a trade-off.

The tab will have to be picked up by second and third owners. Given the cost of new batteries, that's a pass-the-parcel you don't want to get caught with.
But then, you would't want to pay for the rebuild of an ic engine either.

V8

[servodude]

Six years ago, but I think the answer is still yes, it does degrade the battery. A trade-off between life and convenience

Absolutely!

10 years ago I would regularly encounter mistakes and unknowns in the "gas gauging" chips I was using for LiFePO designs
- manufacturers had just reskinned their docs and approach from NiMH (or other older chemistries)
- it was especially painful if you weren't using them in a standard config (e.g. a laptop)

That changed pretty quickly when companies like Tesla started buying, making and deploying them in quantities that were orders more than had been typical up until then.

It takes time for the type of quality improvement and IP that we've seen to filter through the design process to appear in shipped product
- but we're at the stage now that it has
- and it continues to improve

-sd