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next car - hybrid - mild - full - plugin ?

Passion, instruction, buying, care, maintenance and more, any form of vehicle discussion is welcome here
jackdaww
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next car - hybrid - mild - full - plugin ?

#432600

Postby jackdaww » August 5th, 2021, 8:00 am

i plan to replace my (only) car with a new one early in 2022 .

it wont be a pure EV as i tow a small caravan and the charging infrastructure is far from ready .

so it will have to be a hybrid .

all other things equal , i would like to do my bit for the environment , reducing emmisions , reducing pollution in urban areas , etc .

do i get --

1. mild hybrid ?

2. full hybrid ?

3. plugin hybrid ?

:?: :?:

Spet0789
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Re: next car - hybrid - mild - full - plugin ?

#432602

Postby Spet0789 » August 5th, 2021, 8:03 am

What’s the mass of your caravan? The towing weight limit will immediately filter out a lot of cars.

Aside from towing, what’s your typical daily driving? Hiw many miles do you drive per year. How many people do you need to carry? Do you drive in town or country? Will you regularly drive in London or other large cities?

Do you want to buy new or used?

jackdaww
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Re: next car - hybrid - mild - full - plugin ?

#432605

Postby jackdaww » August 5th, 2021, 8:08 am

Spet0789 wrote:What’s the mass of your caravan? The towing weight limit will immediately filter out a lot of cars.

Aside from towing, what’s your typical daily driving? Hiw many miles do you drive per year. How many people do you need to carry? Do you drive in town or country? Will you regularly drive in London or other large cities?

Do you want to buy new or used?


=================================

buying new.

caravan is 750 kgs - very light .

about 8000 miles.

2 people.

mainly rural and trunk routes .

rarely big cities.

DrFfybes
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Re: next car - hybrid - mild - full - plugin ?

#432629

Postby DrFfybes » August 5th, 2021, 9:20 am

jackdaww wrote:i plan to replace my (only) car with a new one early in 2022 .

it wont be a pure EV as i tow a small caravan and the charging infrastructure is far from ready .

so it will have to be a hybrid .


Why?

Serious question - at the moment there is no need to buy a hybrid, so presumably you are choosing one.

Are you buying or leasing? We've already addressed towing requirements, what about load space, gadgets, size for parking at home, etc etc.

In the current market I would look for a vehicle that fitted my needs, decide on a model or models, and then look at whether it is a Hybrid or not as a diesel might well still be your best option.


Paul

jackdaww
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Re: next car - hybrid - mild - full - plugin ?

#432638

Postby jackdaww » August 5th, 2021, 9:54 am

DrFfybes wrote:
jackdaww wrote:i plan to replace my (only) car with a new one early in 2022 .

it wont be a pure EV as i tow a small caravan and the charging infrastructure is far from ready .

so it will have to be a hybrid .


Why?

Serious question - at the moment there is no need to buy a hybrid, so presumably you are choosing one.

Are you buying or leasing? We've already addressed towing requirements, what about load space, gadgets, size for parking at home, etc etc.

In the current market I would look for a vehicle that fitted my needs, decide on a model or models, and then look at whether it is a Hybrid or not as a diesel might well still be your best option.


Paul


===============================

my understanding is that choice of non EV / hybrid models is now very limited in practice .

re diesel i wont drive diesel on pollution grounds alone, let alone noise and smell from burning crude paraffin.

my current qashqai is about the right size , crossover type, gadgets are of no interest , i dont like skinny tyres.

i have not owned a manual gearbox and clutch transmission for over 40 years .

good reliability is a major factor , which narrows it down mainly to the pure japanese brands .

8-)

swill453
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Re: next car - hybrid - mild - full - plugin ?

#432642

Postby swill453 » August 5th, 2021, 9:59 am

jackdaww wrote:my understanding is that choice of non EV / hybrid models is now very limited in practice .

If you're only going for a hybrid because you (think you) have to, and not because you specifically want to, then ignore it as a factor.

Go for the car that meets your needs/wants. If it ends up being a hybrid or not, so be it.

Scott.

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Re: next car - hybrid - mild - full - plugin ?

#432643

Postby nmdhqbc » August 5th, 2021, 10:08 am

swill453 wrote:Go for the car that meets your needs/wants. If it ends up being a hybrid or not, so be it.


jackdaww wrote:all other things equal , i would like to do my bit for the environment , reducing emmisions , reducing pollution in urban areas , etc .


one of the wants is doing their bit for the environment

swill453
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Re: next car - hybrid - mild - full - plugin ?

#432647

Postby swill453 » August 5th, 2021, 10:33 am

nmdhqbc wrote:
swill453 wrote:Go for the car that meets your needs/wants. If it ends up being a hybrid or not, so be it.

jackdaww wrote:all other things equal , i would like to do my bit for the environment , reducing emmisions , reducing pollution in urban areas , etc .

one of the wants is doing their bit for the environment

I claim no intimate knowledge, but some hybrids have been called "green wash" here recently.

Scott.

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Re: next car - hybrid - mild - full - plugin ?

#432648

Postby richlist » August 5th, 2021, 10:42 am

nmdhqbc wrote:
swill453 wrote:Go for the car that meets your needs/wants. If it ends up being a hybrid or not, so be it.


jackdaww wrote:all other things equal , i would like to do my bit for the environment , reducing emmisions , reducing pollution in urban areas , etc .


one of the wants is doing their bit for the environment


Be carefull......I'm finding some mild hybrids with same size engines as non hybrids have higher emissions. Don't assume your hybrid will have lower emissions.

9873210
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Camping with a hybrid

#432701

Postby 9873210 » August 5th, 2021, 4:18 pm

If you get a full or plugin hybrid you might want to look for the ability to export 240V AC electric power. Then you can use that to run the caravan lights, cooker, water heater and air conditioning.

Even if the car doesn't come with the package you can get an aftermarket inverter, but it's better if the inverter is integrated into the hybrid high voltage system. An integrated system can provide effectively unlimited power (10s of kW) with no risk of voiding the warrantee.

9873210
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Re: next car - hybrid - mild - full - plugin ?

#432702

Postby 9873210 » August 5th, 2021, 4:24 pm

richlist wrote:
Be carefull......I'm finding some mild hybrids with same size engines as non hybrids have higher emissions. Don't assume your hybrid will have lower emissions.


True. If you care about the environment the number that matters is grams of carbon per km. It does not matter which technology is used to get there.

There are experimental engines with electronic valves that would be comparable to any hybrid. Fully variable valve timing allows the engine to change between Atkinson and Otto cycle on the fly and similar tricks.
Last edited by 9873210 on August 5th, 2021, 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jackdaww
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Re: next car - hybrid - mild - full - plugin ?

#432706

Postby jackdaww » August 5th, 2021, 4:28 pm

9873210 wrote:
richlist wrote:
Be carefull......I'm finding some mild hybrids with same size engines as non hybrids have higher emissions. Don't assume your hybrid will have lower emissions.


True. If you care about the environment the number that matters is grams of carbon per km. It does not matter which technology is used to get there.


========================

yes .

but are the manufacturers figures trustworthy ?

or are they faked a la volkswagen ?

MaraMan
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Re: next car - hybrid - mild - full - plugin ?

#432710

Postby MaraMan » August 5th, 2021, 4:39 pm

We have been very happy with our Toyota C-HR 2 litre Hybrid. It's a great car, very comfortable and smooth, but I am not sure how suitable it is for towing though. Toyotas are about as reliable as cars get, they have a ten year warranty and cheap servicing, and always seem near the top in customer satisfaction surveys.

MM

9873210
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Re: next car - hybrid - mild - full - plugin ?

#432714

Postby 9873210 » August 5th, 2021, 4:46 pm

jackdaww wrote:
9873210 wrote:
richlist wrote:
Be carefull......I'm finding some mild hybrids with same size engines as non hybrids have higher emissions. Don't assume your hybrid will have lower emissions.


True. If you care about the environment the number that matters is grams of carbon per km. It does not matter which technology is used to get there.


========================

yes .

but are the manufacturers figures trustworthy ?

or are they faked a la volkswagen ?


Possibly not trustworthy, but they are more reliable than badges on the car.

You can look at number from different regulators (e.g. USA, Japan and Europe) and independent organizations that do actual tests (e.g. Which, Consumer reports, Motor Trend etc.) In the end the best you can do is the best you can do.
Last edited by 9873210 on August 5th, 2021, 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bungeejumper
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Re: next car - hybrid - mild - full - plugin ?

#432740

Postby bungeejumper » August 5th, 2021, 6:01 pm

MaraMan wrote:We have been very happy with our Toyota C-HR 2 litre Hybrid. It's a great car, very comfortable and smooth, but I am not sure how suitable it is for towing though. Toyotas are about as reliable as cars get, they have a ten year warranty and cheap servicing, and always seem near the top in customer satisfaction surveys.

Hallelujah to the ten year warranty and cheap servicing - Toyota's new Relax warranty system applies to older cars too, and all you have to do is get the car serviced at a Toyota garage, which isn't a pain because it's very price-competitive anyway.

I think Toyota have fixed this one now, but it's a point worth checking if you're buying used. When I bought my Auris five years ago, the dealer asked me whether I wanted to tow, because apparently the hybrids weren't type-approved to do that. Something about the regenerative braking system and drive chain, I think, which didn't like being "pushed" by a trailer from behind! (As I understood it, perhaps incorrectly, the chassis needed to make certain assumptions about the weight of the vehicle, and trailers messed up the chassis calcs.)

Anyway, some Toyota models are OK to tow now, but not particularly heavy kerb weights. Here's the last word from Toyota, as on 2020: https://mag.toyota.co.uk/toyota-hybrid- ... questions/

BJ

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Re: next car - hybrid - mild - full - plugin ?

#432768

Postby Spet0789 » August 5th, 2021, 8:17 pm

jackdaww wrote:
Spet0789 wrote:What’s the mass of your caravan? The towing weight limit will immediately filter out a lot of cars.

Aside from towing, what’s your typical daily driving? Hiw many miles do you drive per year. How many people do you need to carry? Do you drive in town or country? Will you regularly drive in London or other large cities?

Do you want to buy new or used?


=================================

buying new.

caravan is 750 kgs - very light .

about 8000 miles.

2 people.

mainly rural and trunk routes .

rarely big cities.


Given your mileage and the fact you rarely enter big cities, there’s no need for you to buy a hybrid. Get a petrol car.

Better still, recognising that making a car often creates as much pollution as it will emit over its driving life, buy a 3-5 year old petrol car!

Have a look at the Honda HRV, the Nissan Juke and the Hyundai Kona. All will tow 1000kg or more.

jackdaww
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Re: next car - hybrid - mild - full - plugin ?

#432780

Postby jackdaww » August 5th, 2021, 9:14 pm

Spet0789 wrote:
jackdaww wrote:
Spet0789 wrote:What’s the mass of your caravan? The towing weight limit will immediately filter out a lot of cars.

Aside from towing, what’s your typical daily driving? Hiw many miles do you drive per year. How many people do you need to carry? Do you drive in town or country? Will you regularly drive in London or other large cities?

Do you want to buy new or used?


=================================

buying new.

caravan is 750 kgs - very light .

about 8000 miles.

2 people.

mainly rural and trunk routes .

rarely big cities.


Given your mileage and the fact you rarely enter big cities, there’s no need for you to buy a hybrid. Get a petrol car.

Better still, recognising that making a car often creates as much pollution as it will emit over its driving life, buy a 3-5 year old petrol car!

Have a look at the Honda HRV, the Nissan Juke and the Hyundai Kona. All will tow 1000kg or more.


======================

honda yes , nissan joke ------- nooooooooooooooooooooo ...

DrFfybes
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Re: next car - hybrid - mild - full - plugin ?

#432837

Postby DrFfybes » August 6th, 2021, 9:40 am

Spet0789 wrote:Given your mileage and the fact you rarely enter big cities, there’s no need for you to buy a hybrid. Get a petrol car.

Better still, recognising that making a car often creates as much pollution as it will emit over its driving life, buy a 3-5 year old petrol car!

Have a look at the Honda HRV, the Nissan Juke and the Hyundai Kona. All will tow 1000kg or more.



I hate looking at Nissan Jukes, mainly as their bloody headlights are at head height on 2 of our cars. For some reason, those (and 'minis') seem unusually bad.

I'm not sure the "making the vehicle causes more pollution than using it" - there are opposing views, and lies, damn lies, and statistics about this.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/10 ... one-really suggests buying new, but the comparisson is skewed and the article not entirely unbiased. Replasing a 30 year old car with a new one will make more difference than new versus 3 years old, then again out 30 your old one does 45 mpg.

It really depends upon how many miles the vehicle does before it is scrapped.

Besides, the new vehicle will still be made, it would need a huge shift in behaviour to reduce the number of new ones made.

Paul

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Re: next car - hybrid - mild - full - plugin ?

#432879

Postby AF62 » August 6th, 2021, 12:01 pm

DrFfybes wrote:I'm not sure the "making the vehicle causes more pollution than using it" - there are opposing views, and lies, damn lies, and statistics about this.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/10 ... one-really suggests buying new, but the comparisson is skewed and the article not entirely unbiased. Replasing a 30 year old car with a new one will make more difference than new versus 3 years old, then again out 30 your old one does 45 mpg.

It really depends upon how many miles the vehicle does before it is scrapped.

Besides, the new vehicle will still be made, it would need a huge shift in behaviour to reduce the number of new ones made.

Paul


Wasn't it Jeep who claimed that their ancient gas guzzling cars were the most environmentally friendly if you considered the whole life of the vehicle, as theirs were still running 50 years after they were made, when something more modern would have been scrapped and replaced many times over in that same period.

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Re: next car - hybrid - mild - full - plugin ?

#432909

Postby Spet0789 » August 6th, 2021, 1:55 pm

DrFfybes wrote:
Spet0789 wrote:Given your mileage and the fact you rarely enter big cities, there’s no need for you to buy a hybrid. Get a petrol car.

Better still, recognising that making a car often creates as much pollution as it will emit over its driving life, buy a 3-5 year old petrol car!

Have a look at the Honda HRV, the Nissan Juke and the Hyundai Kona. All will tow 1000kg or more.



I hate looking at Nissan Jukes, mainly as their bloody headlights are at head height on 2 of our cars. For some reason, those (and 'minis') seem unusually bad.

I'm not sure the "making the vehicle causes more pollution than using it" - there are opposing views, and lies, damn lies, and statistics about this.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/10 ... one-really suggests buying new, but the comparisson is skewed and the article not entirely unbiased. Replasing a 30 year old car with a new one will make more difference than new versus 3 years old, then again out 30 your old one does 45 mpg.

It really depends upon how many miles the vehicle does before it is scrapped.

Besides, the new vehicle will still be made, it would need a huge shift in behaviour to reduce the number of new ones made.

Paul


It’s certainly a matter for debate, but the analysis you provided assumed an annual mileage (15k) twice that of the OP and far above the average U.K. driver. As you correctly say, replacing a 15 year old guzzler with a new car is probably the eco thing to do, but that’s not the situation here.


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