Could you go electric ?

[robbelg]

How many of us could go electric/hybrid if we wanted to?

[Slarti]

Range is the problem, for me as I regularly do a 200 mile round trip with no charging facilities at the other end.

They might just do 200 miles, but I'd want at least a 250 or 300 miles guaranteed range.

Slarti

[Meatyfool]

23 mile commute, so would only envisage charging at home.

2nd car is smaller but would stay fossil fuel for the longer runs.

Only problem would be holidays carrying luggage. No reason why I couldn't use the smaller fossil fuel car and make use of the luggage delivery services available.

Meatyfool..

Already browsed for what to look for in a Nissan Leaf (2nd hand).
And yes a Leaf second hand costs the same as my second hand Focus did.

[bungeejumper]

No probs with the charging, because I have a drive. But range is the issue - 250-300 mile return trips are a regular event for me (maybe 25 times a year), and long-distance driving on holiday can go as far as 600 miles a day. I suppose I could always hire a dino-fossil car for those trips? For more routine local trips, a Leaf or similar would suffice.

But would I actually go all-electric? Would depend on the number and availability of charging stations, I suppose. Having read all those white-knuckle reports about electric drivers chewing their fingernails over a fast-disappearing range reading on the distance meter - or about charging stations that were either closed or all 'queued up' for hours, I'm not sure my nerves could stand the worry. You'll never be as stuck with a petrol car (400 mile tank, and maybe a 5 litre can in the back) as you would with a battery car that's suddenly run right out of juice on the hard shoulder because you used the heater for too long.

They'll sort these issues eventually. Meanwhile, hybrids are looking interesting. Yes, I'd consider one of those at my next change in five years' time.

BJ

[redsturgeon]

I have a PHEV already, BMW 225xe. Very nice, does everything we need it to. Effective range on electric only is about 16 miles but that does most of my trips which are basically around my city, shopping and taxi driving the kids around.

In electric only mode it is really good fun with seamless power up to 75mph. In hybrid mode with the petrol motor driving front wheels and the electric driving the rears I effectively have a 225 bhp 4x4 that will do 0-60 in under 7 seconds.

In hybrid mode the full range on a tankful plus full battery is a bit low at about 350 miles but apart from that I have no complaints. I do a 500 mile round trip about 6 times a year with perhaps another 10 trips of about 200 miles, but apart from those it is electric only so on my 10k miles per year it's about 50/50 electric vs petrol.

It was expensive to buy but as a company car it makes a lot of sense in terms of BIK.

Not ready to go the full electric yet though.

John

[DrFfybes]

Range is the problem, for me as I regularly do a 200 mile round trip with no charging facilities at the other end.

They might just do 200 miles, but I'd want at least a 250 or 300 miles guaranteed range.

Slarti

I answered the question as it was asked - I have the facilities to charge one.

It wouldn't be any use to me for most of my mileage, but I could use one

Paul

[Slarti]

Range is the problem, for me as I regularly do a 200 mile round trip with no charging facilities at the other end.

They might just do 200 miles, but I'd want at least a 250 or 300 miles guaranteed range.

Slarti

I answered the question as it was asked - I have the facilities to charge one.

It wouldn't be any use to me for most of my mileage, but I could use one

Paul

I hadn't read the electric/hybrid bit in the post below the pole before voting and posting and to the question could I go electric, the answer is no as it is not much use getting somewhere and then not being able to get back.


I've driven 2 hybrids and been less than impressed with them, though I expect that they've come on a bit in 5 years.

Slarti

[kempiejon]

I can't currently park where a supply for an easy recharging supply is available, that's probably the main stumbling block for me, so I'd mostly use hybrid as fossil only and that's pointless. I like the idea, and range isn't a problem for my use. I have no plans to replace my vehicle in the next few years so the point moot for now.

[bungeejumper]

I can't currently park where a supply for an easy recharging supply is available, that's probably the main stumbling block for me, so I'd mostly use hybrid as fossil only and that's pointless.

No expert here, but isn't the point about hybrids that they charge their batteries while their petrol engines are running? So you don't ever need to plug them in.

And they do fun stuff like regenerative braking. Have to say that the real-world hybrid mpg figures for Toyotas similar to mine (but I've got the thirstier petrol engine) do sound quite impressive.

BJ

[Urbandreamer]

No expert here, but isn't the point about hybrids that they charge their batteries while their petrol engines are running? So you don't ever need to plug them in.

And they do fun stuff like regenerative braking. Have to say that the real-world hybrid mpg figures for Toyotas similar to mine (but I've got the thirstier petrol engine) do sound quite impressive.

BJ

I think that the original question was a bit ambiguous. I interperated it as a battery car, not a hybrid or plug-in hybrid. As has been pointed out that would make it a no-go for some.

The downside to hybrids are additional weight, cost and complexity. Don't get me wrong I'm a big fan, but they do have downsides over IC cars such as the extra care needed by those who work on them due to leathal voltages and currents. Not a problem as such, just extra training needed for mechanics and self training for any who feel competent to DIY.

[gryffron]

At the moment, cost would be the main obstacle for me. The cost of purchase, and battery replacement. I actually do so little mileage, that the cost/mile would be staggering - once you factor in the short lifespan of the batteries.

Gryff

[DrFfybes]

At the moment, cost would be the main obstacle for me. The cost of purchase, and battery replacement. I actually do so little mileage, that the cost/mile would be staggering - once you factor in the short lifespan of the batteries.

Gryff

I gather the lifespan of the early Prius battery is still unknown, but there are plenty with 6 figure mileages at 15 years old that have been found to have most of the battery capacity left. Toyota now offer a 10 year battery warranty in some areas. Early Honda Insights still seem to be going strong, actually becoming collectable.

Batteries are about £2k for new ones, about 1/4 of that from a scrapyard.

OK, these are hybrid rather than pure electric, but battery technology should be better than 15 years ago so you'd expect no problems for cars under 15 years.

On pure electrics the trick is don't deep discharge them, nor fast charge them. At 50% discharge (so about every 50 miles for a Nissan Leaf) batteries should last over 1000 cycles with minimal performance drop off.

Paul

[gryffron]

So, double the purchase cost, and an effective range of 50 miles. You make it sound so attractive Paul.

[bungeejumper]

Hot news from Toyota: The new Prius Plug-in is on sale now, with the first customer deliveries scheduled from 1 March. On-the-road prices start at £34,895 for the Business Edition Plus model (£36,395 with the solar roof option) and rise to £37,095 for the Excel. Customers buying a new Prius Plug-in can take advantage of the UK Government’s plug-in car grant, which provides £2,500 towards the vehicle purchase cost.

Wow, what a steal. I've got £35,000 burning a hole in my pocket right now. Maybe I ought to buy two while the opportunity lasts?

BJ

[Urbandreamer]

Wow, what a steal. I've got £35,000 burning a hole in my pocket right now. Maybe I ought to buy two while the opportunity lasts?

BJ

Well while you're car shopping this hybrid is described as "good value". A bit more expensive than a Prius though.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/tarde ... placement/

[UncleIan]

I guess, in theory, I could, most of the time, I do less than 20 miles each day commuting to work. Not many long journeys. Where I get stuck is the maths of it. I probably fill up the car every 3 or 4 weeks, with other short journeys added, I don't keep track, and it's about £60 a tank, so lets take worst case...
(52/3) * £60 = £1040.
17.333 refills at about 400 miles a tank is 6900 miles, roughly.

Say I'm on a great overnight tariff and it costs £1.50 to fully charge for 100 miles. 6900/100 * £1.50 = £103.50

£900 per annum better off, plus car tax, call it £1000.

How much more are they than equivalent petrol cars? £2000 something like that? So I'd need to keep it for at least two years to start being in the black. Or longer depending on how often I'd need to hire a petrol car for occasional long journeys.

Not as long as I thought actually. Of course, it's mostly guesswork, but probably in the right ballpark.

Would I swap from a Golf to a Leaf though? Hmmm, probably not, currently my inbuilt prejudice is too high.

[TopOnePercent]

I voted no, but really the answer is yes and no. Yes, we could go electric with the wifes car, and if the batteries still work when a leaf gets to about 9 or 10 years old, we might well. Yes, we could go electric with my track day car, in theory. No, we couldn't go electric with my toy car as the power output of the engine is too high for batteries to maintain that kind of oomph over the sort of distances I drive it (300+ miles at 85ish in the dark). I suppose we could go 'leccy with my snotter too, but the road where it lives is too far from my house to cable so I'd need a road side charging point.

[TopOnePercent]

I guess, in theory, I could, most of the time, I do less than 20 miles each day commuting to work. Not many long journeys. Where I get stuck is the maths of it. I probably fill up the car every 3 or 4 weeks, with other short journeys added, I don't keep track, and it's about £60 a tank, so lets take worst case...
(52/3) * £60 = £1040.
17.333 refills at about 400 miles a tank is 6900 miles, roughly.

Say I'm on a great overnight tariff and it costs £1.50 to fully charge for 100 miles. 6900/100 * £1.50 = £103.50

£900 per annum better off, plus car tax, call it £1000.

How much more are they than equivalent petrol cars? £2000 something like that? So I'd need to keep it for at least two years to start being in the black. Or longer depending on how often I'd need to hire a petrol car for occasional long journeys.

Not as long as I thought actually. Of course, it's mostly guesswork, but probably in the right ballpark.

Would I swap from a Golf to a Leaf though? Hmmm, probably not, currently my inbuilt prejudice is too high.

A quick google shows about £3.00 for a full charge. This figure may be wrong - I didn't spend much time on it.

Where I wonder about costs is the repair bills. Motors should be cheaper than an engine and ancillaries to repair, but I'm unsure how the battery life and eventual replacement factors in. Any long term owners out there who would car to comment?

[Urbandreamer]

Where I wonder about costs is the repair bills. Motors should be cheaper than an engine and ancillaries to repair, but I'm unsure how the battery life and eventual replacement factors in. Any long term owners out there who would car to comment?

Well it seems no Leaf owners have seen this thread.

I don't own a EV, but I've been a member of the Battery Vehicle Society for a number of years.

Motors should indeed be cheaper to maintain than engines. The modern trend is away from brushed DC, hence they should be maintenence free and wear limited to their bearings.
Ancillaries, well you still need break pads but they will last longer as they do less work. No exhaust system or emission controles to worry about.
Oil changes are gear box oil, ie on a full strip down. Filters, air/oil, almost certainly not needed.

Battery life and cost.....

Well I'm sorry that's the killer. You need to think about it like buying all your fuel every 8-10 years and lump the battery cost in with the electricity to do a fair comparison. A new battery for a leaf is of the order of £6k. I believe most owners lease at aprox £70pcm.

You pay dearly for range with a battery car, yet range is what most claim to want. The Tesla has almost twice the range of the leaf so you would expect to pay twice the price, just as frequently, even if you just used it as a shopping trolly.
The Twizy has a far smaller pack hence should be cheaper (though we don't know yet as owning the battery will only be possible later this year).

Accidental damage can also be a killer, but that's really a design issue and not limited to EV's. You put expensive kit near the edges of a car and it can become a insurance write-off very easily (ie ECU location).

Why don't I own a EV? Well I can't financially justify a leaf. I am tempted by a Twizy though.

[DrFfybes]

[quote="Urbandreamer"]
Battery life and cost.....

Well I'm sorry that's the killer. You need to think about it like buying all your fuel every 8-10 years and lump the battery cost in with the electricity to do a fair comparison. A new battery for a leaf is of the order of £6k. I believe most owners lease at aprox £70pcm.
[quote]

£840 a year is over 150 gallons of fuel (and was 180 gallons not too long ago). That's at least 6000 miles in most small cars (more if it is a diesel).

So once you hit that level, you're about at break even if you charge on free sources, or with another £120 on electricity (2p per mile for 6000 miles) which would get the infernal combustion car another 860 miles so nearly 7000 miles pa for financial breakeven on fuel costs.

Paul